The Ruck Debate is Over

[Dennis]

Well the fact is they are.

I think you can work out that Warnock is going nowhere and is still the preferred ruckman going forward, in our MC's eyes
Given a situation of having to trade, it won't be Warnock with his name on the table.
We find Hampsons name raised as our new FF, CHF, CHB and even wingman now.
His day will come but he is so far away from that right now, we only have our dreams to back up on.
For now, Hampson will be viewed as a ruck option and ruck option only.

So that leaves us the same question we've covered through many threads other than yours and that is:
Will we be able to hold onto four ruckmen come years end?

.....oh, and the ruck debate is far from over.

Big Assumption

The question really is which ruckman will end up at Hawthorn in the trade period

 

[TOPBLUE_25]

dont think the debate is over but I would take Jacobs over Warnock at the mo. Cant think of any stats Robbie would be infront of Sauce in so far.

 

[murphster]

i don't see it that way

I see Sauce and Kruze as the starting ruckmen, with Warnock and hampson playing should injury strike. I dont see them pressing for a starting spot

Hampson could possibly get a game in the forward line or even as a mobile wingman (richo style).

Therefore, I dont see it as accurate to say we have 3 fighting for a starting spot.

No you are right we have 4

 

[200cm tapruckman]

warnock the next best after kruey.. 206cm and at the start of his career. he will be dominant once he puts a bit more beef on. i have always been a hammer fan but unfortunately dont think he will get the opportunities in the navy blue and, for his own sake, would benefit my moving home to the gold coast and carving out a career there.

 

[Claypigeon]

Anyone who thinks a good tap ruckman or ruck in general is overrated should watch Hawthorn play and see how badly they went once Renouf was too tired to contest in the ruck. ..

Jacob is doing enough to hold his place regardless of the opposition. .. If Warnock earns his way back into the team, perhaps we can afford to give Kreuzer a rest to let him refuel the tank for business end of the season. .. And if Warnock doesn't come good then hopefully Hammer can step up. ..

 

[SurreyBlue]

I still believe Warnock / Jacobs should be our ruck combination with Kruezer playing more @ CHF.
I would also like to see Carlton starting to protect Kruezer a bit more now by getting him out of the ruck. He is too young to be doing what he is doing right now and his body might not last if we keep him in the ruck continuously.

 

[Lawnchair]

Don't forget about Setanta as a viable backup. Kruezer won't be getting traded, which means any one of Jacobs, Hampson or (however unlikely) Warnock could be traded and still leave us with 2 useful backups without screwing our structures completely.

I doubt one of our rucks will end up at Hawthorn. They have 5 or 6 rucks on their list already, so unless they de-list 2 or 3 I don't think they'll be chasing any more. And besides, what would Hawthorn realistically offer us in a trade that would be worth losing Jacobs or Hampson over? The have no backs we want/need and they have no mids or forwards they'd be willing to give up that we would actually want. I'd rate Jacobs or Hampson as worth a pick in the top 10 as a minimum though there are clearly other factors.

 

[Dramoth]

Don't forget about Setanta as a viable backup. Kruezer won't be getting traded, which means any one of Jacobs, Hampson or (however unlikely) Warnock could be traded and still leave us with 2 useful backups without screwing our structures completely.

I doubt one of our rucks will end up at Hawthorn. They have 5 or 6 rucks on their list already, so unless they de-list 2 or 3 I don't think they'll be chasing any more. And besides, what would Hawthorn realistically offer us in a trade that would be worth losing Jacobs or Hampson over? The have no backs we want/need and they have no mids or forwards they'd be willing to give up that we would actually want. I'd rate Jacobs or Hampson as worth a pick in the top 10 as a minimum though there are clearly other factors.

Setanta is going to be our main forward for the next few years and will only be rucking in the forward line if one of the other rucks cant make it there.

Hampson is looking to become a project forward over the next couple of years now and possibly end up replacing Setanta as our super athletic FF.

 

[Azul]

Don't forget about Setanta as a viable backup.

As a battering ram when all other options are exhausted, perhaps. But by choice, no he isn't. Tall he may be but he doesn't have it as a ruckman - nor did Cloke. Being tall doesn't imply ruck ability. e.g. look at Sticks - my memory may be fading but I can't remember him ever taking a centre bounce.

Unless we got a top 5 draft pick we'd be mad to trade any our our 4 talls at season's end.
The risk is too great if one or more suffers a major injury. I don't envy Hawthorn's situation - don't tempt it.

So, please, forget about Setanta as a viable backup.

 

[Dramoth]

As a battering ram when all other options are exhausted, perhaps. But by choice, no he isn't. Tall he may be but he doesn't have it as a ruckman - nor did Cloke. Being tall doesn't imply ruck ability. e.g. look at Sticks - my memory may be fading but I can't remember him ever taking a centre bounce.

Unless we got a top 5 draft pick we'd be mad to trade any our our 4 talls at season's end.
The risk is too great if one or more suffers a major injury. I don't envy Hawthorn's situation - don't tempt it.

So, please, forget about Setanta as a viable backup.

Sticks took a few throw in's in his time... along with the duke.

This is what I see Setanta doing while he is in the forward line.

 

[Go_Blues!]

As a battering ram when all other options are exhausted, perhaps. But by choice, no he isn't. Tall he may be but he doesn't have it as a ruckman - nor did Cloke. Being tall doesn't imply ruck ability. e.g. look at Sticks - my memory may be fading but I can't remember him ever taking a centre bounce.

Unless we got a top 5 draft pick we'd be mad to trade any our our 4 talls at season's end.
The risk is too great if one or more suffers a major injury. I don't envy Hawthorn's situation - don't tempt it.

So, please, forget about Setanta as a viable backup.

At some point, one of them will want to leave. Footy players want to play senior footy so opportunity elsewhere will arise an they will leave.

 

[Go_Blues!]

As a battering ram when all other options are exhausted, perhaps. But by choice, no he isn't. Tall he may be but he doesn't have it as a ruckman - nor did Cloke. Being tall doesn't imply ruck ability. e.g. look at Sticks - my memory may be fading but I can't remember him ever taking a centre bounce.

Unless we got a top 5 draft pick we'd be mad to trade any our our 4 talls at season's end.
The risk is too great if one or more suffers a major injury. I don't envy Hawthorn's situation - don't tempt it.

So, please, forget about Setanta as a viable backup.

At some point, one of them will want to leave. Footy players want to play senior footy so opportunity elsewhere will arise an they will leave.

 

[Lawnchair]

It's never a choice to use your backup ruckman. The very definition implies it's not preferable. I'm just pointing out that we can trade 1 or possibly even 2 of our top 4 rucks at the end of this season and still not destroy our team balance if we lose some to injury next year. Besides Kruezer, Warnock, Jacobs and Hampson we also have O hAlphin, Henderson, Casboult and Donaldson with previous ruck experience.

 

[Azul]

Sticks took a few throw in's in his time... along with the duke.

This is what I see Setanta doing while he is in the forward line.

That's fine for a few thrown-ins a game but it's no substitute for a proper ruckman. The pace of the modern game now means you must carry two in a side each week. Resorting to part timers for 15 minutes a game is 15 minutes our midfielders get second use of the ball.

At some point, one of them will want to leave. Footy players want to play senior footy so opportunity elsewhere will arise an they will leave.

A player seeking to leave is different from a player being given a forced redundancy (just ask Tony Abbott!) In that case you'll want to grab another rookie quick smart, as in the story of Sam Jacobs. Maybe Casboult is that player but in any case it's 3 years of development.

I'm just pointing out that we can trade 1 or possibly even 2 of our top 4 rucks at the end of this season and still not destroy our team balance if we lose some to injury next year.

As above, 2 rucks must play every week. Trade 1 and you only have one in reserve. Let's not roll the dice that one of our players has a season ending injury.

O hAlphin, Henderson, Casboult and Donaldson with previous ruck experience.

None have proven aptitude at AFL level. Trading away a ruck when our stocks are so raw is a huge risk... Seems the lessons of the Mark Porter trade have been forgotten.

 

[Dr Awkward]

You really have a wealth of ruck options atm, it going to be interesting to see how it all pans out. Warnock is a bit more of a project type player imo and the fact that he is so massive means that he will probably be really good in a few years time. Hampson has a lot of good attributes, I think even if you decide to go with Jacobs in the ruck ahead of Hampson he could slot somewhere into your forward line.

 

[mac25]

Setanta is going to be our main forward for the next few years and will only be rucking in the forward line if one of the other rucks cant make it there.

Hampson is looking to become a project forward over the next couple of years now and possibly end up replacing Setanta as our super athletic FF.

The Mc may have a different view to this at year-end, whilst Judd is still at the peak of his career, they may be of the view that 2011/12 are years we should be having a real crack at a premiership and whilst there are no denying Hampson has some real talent as a ruckman, your long term hope of him becoming a key forward is probably more of a unlikely proposition.

If the right deal is on the table at year-end eg top 5 pick in the draft or part of a trade to obtain another quality player, l am sure this would come under serious consideration, as are now in a position to further improve our list were we have a over-supply of talent in specific areas.

The other point is in the next few years it is going to be difficult to improve a list via the draft, and trading for players and or draft picks will become certainly more prominent from clubs in a attempt to improve in specific areas.

 

[Dramoth]

The Mc may have a different view to this at year-end, whilst Judd is still at the peak of his career, they may be of the view that 2011/12 are years we should be having a real crack at a premiership and whilst there are no denying Hampson has some real talent as a ruckman, your long term hope of him becoming a key forward is probably more of a unlikely proposition.

If the right deal is on the table at year-end eg top 5 pick in the draft or part of a trade to obtain another quality player, l am sure this would come under serious consideration, as are now in a position to further improve our list were we have a over-supply of talent in specific areas.

The other point is in the next few years it is going to be difficult to improve a list via the draft, and trading for players and or draft picks will become certainly more prominent from clubs in a attempt to improve in specific areas.

Mac, I understand where you are coming from there, but I think that the MC knows that our window opens in the 2012 and will be open for about 5-6 years after that.

We are now as a team in a position where we can have a serious amount of depth and if we decide to try and retrain Hampson into a forward, we can because we have the depth. And honestly, Setanta isnt going to be around for more than 3-4 years. And I have liked the few glimpses we have seen from Hammer up front. And with his soccer training, he will know how to lead a lot better than Setanta.

 

[Alpha1]

The ruck debate is far from over, was impressed with Sammy last week puts up a fight in the ruck and can mark the ball. I think we should keep all four big men, Hammo could be a great foil for us playing from the square with Irish ,Hendo and Waite running through the 50 and beyond.

 

[Big Red is back]

far from over Jacobs struggiling to the max

 

[Team Mo']

far from over Jacobs struggiling to the max

He is? Took some good grabs and was pretty good in the ruck too. Far better then Warnock has done...

 

[Bell Ringer]

far from over Jacobs struggiling to the max

So wrong

 

[Dennis]

Killed it today!

the debate is over

 

[Silvagnis]

Not over.

I could beat Brogan.

What a tish truck of a ruckman.

 

[zeeCFC]

Contested marks is what i like. Very well played both boys around the ground. Ruckwork from Sauce was good in the second half also

 

[Sin City]

Sauce will smash the Hawthorn rucks next week.