Training The Thread Formerly Known As The Training Thread

[Kappa]

All three in our f50 fit & firing will be a sight for sore eyes.

All three are best used leading into space from the goal square.

Not the greatest mix in terms of type, you need defensive players and guys who will sacrifice their game to block and create space.

I believe that's why they need Elliot and De Goey to spend more time in the midfield this year

 

[BringouttheGimp]

All three in our f50 fit & firing will be a sight for sore eyes.

Just lil things re.. attention to detail.. I don't want to see any of em with their hands on their hips if the ball is not going near em.. become a nuisance and run sideways.. criss cross with a teammate.. whatever.. continue moving.. absolitely draining for a defender when he's up against a forward like that.. and then the next move you make.. you might actually get the pill.. cause he thinks you're screwing him around.. when you're not..

 

[Jen2310]

Thanks for the info Jen, but hell will freeze over before I go to that shrine of narcissism. I'll donate privately.

Heh I've been there twice in the last 12 months.
For the aflw game last season and the vflw GF

 

[Horaceg]

Elliott through the middle could work, worth a look, we know he can play forward. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

[sr36]

I reckon you’re on the money. Those two rotating would be a nightmare for match ups.

Throw in Sidey starting half forward then moving into the midfield as the midfield version of JDG or Elliott drifts forward.

 

[Scodog10]

JDG and Elliott rotating full forward and mid.

It has to be a serious consideration. Our midfield lacks foot speed, Treloar aside, and whilst we’re one of the best at winning it then sharing it around we don’t have enough guys to break up the congestion. The optimist in me hopes it marginalises Mayne’s role, but the realist in me says it’ll be someone else squeezed out. I like Mayne in Aish’s role because I don’t think others are ready and he’s a calming influence it’s just his midfield days that need to be over for our midfield to evolve.

 

[well left]

Worth a look, particularly as that creative quick mid or high half forward. It’s what I think we were looking at Wells to be and Daicos may not be ready.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[piesforever20]

Boys training today?

 

[DaVe86]

It has to be a serious consideration. Our midfield lacks foot speed, Treloar aside, and whilst we’re one of the best at winning it then sharing it around we don’t have enough guys to break up the congestion. The optimist in me hopes it marginalises Mayne’s role, but the realist in me says it’ll be someone else squeezed out. I like Mayne in Aish’s role because I don’t think others are ready and he’s a calming influence it’s just his midfield days that need to be over for our midfield to evolve.

There's a spot open down back considering Aish is gone, and Greenwood will miss a chunk of the season. Langdon is also missing.

We usually play 7 defenders. The starting 6 will be Roughead, Howe, Moore, Maynard, Crisp and Noble. The 7th is up for grabs.

You'd think it's a battle between Shaz, Quaynor or Murphy for that last spot. But all 3 are relatively young, and coupled with Noble who is also young could be risky.

So I actually think playing Mayne back in the Aish role could be a good option because he adds experience, leadership and a cool head. He also sticks to task. The other option is WHE at half back. I actually struggle to find a spot for him with JDG, Elliott, Stephenson and JT occupying the forward roles.

My preference is to actually play WHE more on a wing/half back in Mayne's role, and swing Mayne back. This also opens up a spot potentially for both Wills and Sier in the same team, which I'm actually an advocate for if De Goey is not going to be used in the midfield. I just think we got so smashed in clearances last year, so having 2 bulls in there should be considered.

 

[LarryKinn]

There's a spot open down back considering Aish is gone, and Greenwood will miss a chunk of the season. Langdon is also missing.

We usually play 7 defenders. The starting 6 will be Roughead, Howe, Moore, Maynard, Crisp and Noble. The 7th is up for grabs.

You'd think it's a battle between Shaz, Quaynor or Murphy for that last spot. But all 3 are relatively young, and coupled with Noble who is also young could be risky.

So I actually think playing Mayne back in the Aish role could be a good option because he adds experience, leadership and a cool head. He also sticks to task. The other option is WHE at half back. I actually struggle to find a spot for him with JDG, Elliott, Stephenson and JT occupying the forward roles.

My preference is to actually play WHE more on a wing/half back in Mayne's role, and swing Mayne back. This also opens up a spot potentially for both Wills and Sier in the same team, which I'm actually an advocate for if De Goey is not going to be used in the midfield. I just think we got so smashed in clearances last year, so having 2 bulls in there should be considered.

I think IQ is competing with Noble for 1 spot in the backline and Sharenberg(by far the most experienced) vying with Murphy for the other
Mayne should be depth, he's an average kick,mark & tackle, cant kick a set shot and tends to stagnate play for fear of making the wrong decision. move him aside for a plethora of younger alternatives - WHE, Stevo, Noble, Murphy, Tyler B, Bianco/Rantall, Shaz, Wilson
2 bulls would already be Adams and Sier (or Wills) add in DeGoey, plus cameos from Crisp and I think we're set
I wonder if Elliot replaces Beams as the Forward/Midfielder switching with Degoey(I had hoped Tyler might be tried in the Beams role but he's only been played in midfield or defence as I recall

 

[Scodog10]

There's a spot open down back considering Aish is gone, and Greenwood will miss a chunk of the season. Langdon is also missing.

We usually play 7 defenders. The starting 6 will be Roughead, Howe, Moore, Maynard, Crisp and Noble. The 7th is up for grabs.

You'd think it's a battle between Shaz, Quaynor or Murphy for that last spot. But all 3 are relatively young, and coupled with Noble who is also young could be risky.

So I actually think playing Mayne back in the Aish role could be a good option because he adds experience, leadership and a cool head. He also sticks to task. The other option is WHE at half back. I actually struggle to find a spot for him with JDG, Elliott, Stephenson and JT occupying the forward roles.

My preference is to actually play WHE more on a wing/half back in Mayne's role, and swing Mayne back. This also opens up a spot potentially for both Wills and Sier in the same team, which I'm actually an advocate for if De Goey is not going to be used in the midfield. I just think we got so smashed in clearances last year, so having 2 bulls in there should be considered.

You had me completely on board until you reached for a way to pair up Sier and Wills. It’s as likely to work as Cox/ Grundy/ Witts did and is reliant on injuries.

I’m confident our issues at stoppages aren’t personnel related, size in particular, but rather structure and connection. Elliott as a spitter in the same way GWS use Williams and Richmond with Lambert is a potential big plus if he can adjust to the role change.

 

[Johno9911]

There's a spot open down back considering Aish is gone, and Greenwood will miss a chunk of the season. Langdon is also missing.

We usually play 7 defenders. The starting 6 will be Roughead, Howe, Moore, Maynard, Crisp and Noble. The 7th is up for grabs.

You'd think it's a battle between Shaz, Quaynor or Murphy for that last spot. But all 3 are relatively young, and coupled with Noble who is also young could be risky.

So I actually think playing Mayne back in the Aish role could be a good option because he adds experience, leadership and a cool head. He also sticks to task. The other option is WHE at half back. I actually struggle to find a spot for him with JDG, Elliott, Stephenson and JT occupying the forward roles.

My preference is to actually play WHE more on a wing/half back in Mayne's role, and swing Mayne back. This also opens up a spot potentially for both Wills and Sier in the same team, which I'm actually an advocate for if De Goey is not going to be used in the midfield. I just think we got so smashed in clearances last year, so having 2 bulls in there should be considered.

I tend to agree although I have become a big fan of Mayne's role playing as the balanced defensive minded midfielder. Ideally I would prefer that role gets replaced rather than forgotten, and wouldn't mind it getting filled with someone like Shaz or even Quaynor (Phillips and Sidebottom I feel are to weak defensivley or too much of threat offensively to use in this role)

The bolded section for mine is hammer on the head imo. We are in the rare situation where we can potentially have the best of both worlds, if Wills, Sier and Adams can work as midfield trio and allow Pendles and Treloar etc to play on the outside, and keeping JDG close to goal, we are much better placed than pulling JDG out of the forward 50 or Maynard/Crisp out of our defensive unit.

 

[jackcass]

When I was at training on Friday Elliott spent quite a bit of time in the guts and did well. Him being there might be because Jordy still appears to be on a managed program and they want some different bodies in there.

Elliott was a regular midfield rotation before his back injury and started to get some midfield time of a wing toward the end of 2019. He adds pace and certainly isn't out of place in there.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Elliot would barely scrape into the top 100 midfielders in the league.. take out Cameron.. you can argue that Elliot is the best small forward in the league. Devastatingly good.. and besides.. I think if you place most forwards in the midfield they'll do a reasonable job.. that anticipation when the pills going forward and Elliot is on the move.. one of the best feelings I have watching us play.

He is a see pill get pill kick the sausage roll type of player.. that's where he's at his best. I'd tinker with a lot of other things at Collingwood.. definitely not this one.

 

[unplugged]

Thanks for the info Jen, but hell will freeze over before I go to that shrine of narcissism. I'll donate privately.

Anyone who attends can be sure to at least do a fart on their seat.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Thanks for the info Jen, but hell will freeze over before I go to that shrine of narcissism. I'll donate privately.

Keep your friends close.. but your enemies even closer.. be front row re.. or better still.. sneak into their pig pen and listen to what they've got to say..

 

[DaVe86]

You had me completely on board until you reached for a way to pair up Sier and Wills. It’s as likely to work as Cox/ Grundy/ Witts did and is reliant on injuries.

I’m confident our issues at stoppages aren’t personnel related, size in particular, but rather structure and connection. Elliott as a spitter in the same way GWS use Williams and Richmond with Lambert is a potential big plus if he can adjust to the role change.

I agree re Elliott. I think some players are just natural footballers, and he'll definitely find a way to influence on the ball. Particularly when we have the luxury of De Goey and Stephenson up forward. Rotating De Goey and Elliott is going to be a nightmare for opposition teams.

The point re Wills and Sier is noted...but I reckon it could work. I reckon the Roos turned their whole season around last when they coupled Ziebell and Cunnington into the midfield. Before that, they were using Ziebell purely as a forward. You would need to add some pace on the outside, which is where Elliott and Treloar come in.

I think it is perhaps somewhat surplus when you already have Adams and De Goey also able to play that bull role (and Grundy to some extent)...but both Wills and Sier are looking super this pre-season so it's going to be really hard to separate them. It worked at VFL level 2 years back when both had a big impact on games. It's obvioulsy a lot different at AFL.

I agree that structurally our setup in the midfield was off. But I also think we looked weak when we started Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Treloar on the ball. None of those guys are bulls. Adams is the only one, but he is a shorter "in and under" type. If De Goey could become a 50/50 forward mid, then I would agree that there is no need for another big bodied mid. But I reckon until he builds fitness, he is going to be an 80/20 forward/mid. So I reckon it could work with both Sier and Wills.

 

[grayza2018]

I'm a fan of the idea of moving Mayne into the backline as another calming influence back there, and it will open up a spot in that midfield rotation for a fresh face as well.

Not against that being Billy Elliott either, but maybe not on a full time or majority basis, I'd still have him based mostly up forward and swing him in the mids to cause some damage

 

[Scodog10]

I agree re Elliott. I think some players are just natural footballers, and he'll definitely find a way to influence on the ball. Particularly when we have the luxury of De Goey and Stephenson up forward. Rotating De Goey and Elliott is going to be a nightmare for opposition teams.

The point re Wills and Sier is noted...but I reckon it could work. I reckon the Roos turned their whole season around last when they coupled Ziebell and Cunnington into the midfield. Before that, they were using Ziebell purely as a forward. You would need to add some pace on the outside, which is where Elliott and Treloar come in.

I think it is perhaps somewhat surplus when you already have Adams and De Goey also able to play that bull role (and Grundy to some extent)...but both Wills and Sier are looking super this pre-season so it's going to be really hard to separate them. It worked at VFL level 2 years back when both had a big impact on games. It's obvioulsy a lot different at AFL.

I agree that structurally our setup in the midfield was off. But I also think we looked weak when we started Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Treloar on the ball. None of those guys are bulls. Adams is the only one, but he is a shorter "in and under" type. If De Goey could become a 50/50 forward mid, then I would agree that there is no need for another big bodied mid. But I reckon until he builds fitness, he is going to be an 80/20 forward/mid. So I reckon it could work with both Sier and Wills.

Personally Simpkin coming on was as big a contributor, but I agree those two in their certainly gave them presence. The problem is there’s a huge gulf in quality between Ziebel/ Cunnington and Sier/ Wills. You’re talking north of 10 contested possessions and 5/6 clearances a game.

My assessment on their pre-seasons is that everybody’s flying in Jan/ Feb and it’s another thing entirely for those two to go from middling players to turning our clearance fortunes around. Unfortunately they just aren’t that good and having two guys that struggle to impact away from the stoppages (in Wills case the only impact he has as a mid is tackling) isn’t adding to our midfield mix, IMO.

My take on appearing weak is that perceptions aren’t everything. Pendles is one of the hardest players to move off the ball in the league and you throw a ball into a contest between him, Sier and Wills it’ll be Pendles that wins the majority. No doubt Wills will tackle the shit out of him, but Pendles will get those arms free every time. Steele also had the most productive season of his career when given more responsibility inside. Personally I think talent wins out and the more talented and cohesive groups normally win the stoppage battle. JDG will need time to build that cohesion, but on talent he is a tick and Wills plus Sier lack the ability of others and don’t have the cohesion at that level.

If I’m building a stoppage structure I’d start with Adams, Pendles and then depending on circumstances team them with one of JDG, Sier, Treloar or Steele and Elliott if this is more than a pre-season experiment.

 

[DaVe86]

Personally Simpkin coming on was as big a contributor, but I agree those two in their certainly gave them presence. The problem is there’s a huge gulf in quality between Ziebel/ Cunnington and Sier/ Wills. You’re talking north of 10 contested possessions and 5/6 clearances a game.

My assessment on their pre-seasons is that everybody’s flying in Jan/ Feb and it’s another thing entirely for those two to go from middling players to turning our clearance fortunes around. Unfortunately they just aren’t that good and having two guys that struggle to impact away from the stoppages (in Wills case the only impact he has as a mid is tackling) isn’t adding to our midfield mix, IMO.

My take on appearing weak is that perceptions aren’t everything. Pendles is one of the hardest players to move off the ball in the league and you throw a ball into a contest between him, Sier and Wills it’ll be Pendles that wins the majority. No doubt Wills will tackle the shit out of him, but Pendles will get those arms free every time. Steele also had the most productive season of his career when given more responsibility inside. Personally I think talent wins out and the more talented and cohesive groups normally win the stoppage battle. JDG will need time to build that cohesion, but on talent he is a tick and Wills plus Sier lack the ability of others and don’t have the cohesion at that level.

If I’m building a stoppage structure I’d start with Adams, Pendles and then depending on circumstances team them with one of JDG, Sier, Treloar or Steele and Elliott if this is more than a pre-season experiment.

Fair enough and well argued.

Your point is well made re Wills. If he is the same player we saw in 2019, then you couldn't possibly play both he and Sier. Wills was mainly just a battering ram and tackling machine, but offered no offensive power at all. He mainly nullified stoppages.

I've only been to one training session, but i was impressed with how Wills was moving around the ground and getting involved. He looked to be getting first hands on the ball a lot, and was driving through tackles well to feed others.

But as you say, it's a big difference between training and actual matches. This is why I still have Sier ahead of Wills because I think he is a better offensive contributor and very creative by hand. He just has a little more burst speed as well over very short distances.

Good problems to have I suppose.

 

[surfer1]

I reckon you’re on the money. Those two rotating would be a nightmare for match ups.

And both excellent kicks

 

[grayza2018]

Fair enough and well argued.

Your point is well made re Wills. If he is the same player we saw in 2019, then you couldn't possibly play both he and Sier. Wills was mainly just a battering ram and tackling machine, but offered no offensive power at all. He mainly nullified stoppages.

I've only been to one training session, but i was impressed with how Wills was moving around the ground and getting involved. He looked to be getting first hands on the ball a lot, and was driving through tackles well to feed others.

But as you say, it's a big difference between training and actual matches. This is why I still have Sier ahead of Wills because I think he is a better offensive contributor and very creative by hand. He just has a little more burst speed as well over very short distances.

Good problems to have I suppose.

I haven't been to training at all to see for myself, but maybe Wills' confidence has sky rocketed too on the back of his end to the season? Might be thinking he's more a part of the furniture now in that midfield?

 

[TradeDraft]

There will be a practice game v Carlton @ Ikon Park. Feb 20. 4pm.
Gold coin donantion. Proceeds will go to the bushfire appeal.

I am going to that Game

 

[Albert Parker]

Training observations today Wed 29/1.

Lighter session for 1.5 hours or so in perfect conditions. 10am start.

Warm up for 30 mins
Then games for 20 mins. Group split between American Football and Frisbee Football
Then broke up for various drills around the ground- ruck stoppages, running through congestion with handballs or rugby passes. Bucks observing these as led by the line coaches.
Short period of transition football amongst the main group. End to end.
Goal kicking for a few at the end for 20mins - Mihocek, Tohill, Treloar, Atu, Adams, Cox, Bianco, T Brown, Maynard, Billy. I thought Treloar was the standout actually.

Of note
Langdon and Broomhead set off for a walk about 9.30am
Varcoe walking a few late laps with his arm in a sling with one of the fitness staff
Appleby unsighted
Ruscoe and Grundy did a few run throughs early by themselves and that was it
Reckon Jaidyn Stephenson did the full program today, which was a great sign. Short hair cut being displayed for those who are interested.
All other players participated in the Gridiron and Frisbee drills at the start incl Dunn and Greenwood

When main group was working, separate conditioning drills then completed by
Dunn and Greenwood - lateral movement work and run throughs. Dunn is now at the stage of sudden changes of direction. Greenwood did a tonne of running today
De Goey doing repeat sprints of about 100-150m around the boundary. I'm not exactly sure why he continues on the modified program - hamstring or the shin soreness he's had in the past. May have a new addition to his arm sleeve as he wore a bandage for most of the session

Our list is pretty fit overall, with very few on a modified program. In better shape than last season I think in this respect.
PS Elliott was explosive and excellent in the midfield last Friday match sim. Good tackling pressure too. He and Treloar BOG.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

Personally Simpkin coming on was as big a contributor, but I agree those two in their certainly gave them presence. The problem is there’s a huge gulf in quality between Ziebel/ Cunnington and Sier/ Wills. You’re talking north of 10 contested possessions and 5/6 clearances a game.

My assessment on their pre-seasons is that everybody’s flying in Jan/ Feb and it’s another thing entirely for those two to go from middling players to turning our clearance fortunes around. Unfortunately they just aren’t that good and having two guys that struggle to impact away from the stoppages (in Wills case the only impact he has as a mid is tackling) isn’t adding to our midfield mix, IMO.

My take on appearing weak is that perceptions aren’t everything. Pendles is one of the hardest players to move off the ball in the league and you throw a ball into a contest between him, Sier and Wills it’ll be Pendles that wins the majority. No doubt Wills will tackle the shit out of him, but Pendles will get those arms free every time. Steele also had the most productive season of his career when given more responsibility inside. Personally I think talent wins out and the more talented and cohesive groups normally win the stoppage battle. JDG will need time to build that cohesion, but on talent he is a tick and Wills plus Sier lack the ability of others and don’t have the cohesion at that level.

If I’m building a stoppage structure I’d start with Adams, Pendles and then depending on circumstances team them with one of JDG, Sier, Treloar or Steele and Elliott if this is more than a pre-season experiment.

Yeah why the **** can't we just move Steele back inside and work on getting games into another outside mid like TBrown or move Treloar there.