The war against renewable energy

[nut]

You are kidding yourself if you think Renewable electricity is going to cost close to nothing

We are already seeing days with negative wholesale buying prices… ask south Australians on Amber electric.
The cost of producing electricity will continue to fall.

Let’s take a a solar panel on its own…. A 440watt solar panel costs about $200, lasts 20 years, produces 200w for an average of 3.5 hours a day.

440x3.5 x 365 x 20…. = 11,242,000wh … for $200!!! I’d say that’s close to nothing. That’s on today’s inefficiencies … as technology gets better that will reduce more.

in the future there will only be supply charges IMO with max amps at meter box.
Power will be like internet plans… it’ll be all dependant on your peak loads…. 5kw plans… 10kw plans.. 15kw plans etc… unless AI sucks it all up

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We are already seeing days with negative wholesale buying prices… ask south Australians on Amber electric.
The cost of producing electricity will continue to fall.

Let’s take a a solar panel on its own…. A 440watt solar panel costs about $200, lasts 20 years, produces 200w for an average of 3.5 hours a day.

440x3.5 x 365 x 20…. = 11,242,000wh … for $200!!! I’d say that’s close to nothing. That’s on today’s inefficiencies … as technology gets better that will reduce more.

in the future there will only be supply charges IMO with max amps at meter box.
Power will be like internet plans… it’ll be all dependant on your peak loads…. 5kw plans… 10kw plans.. 15kw plans etc… unless AI sucks it all up

Why will anyone build a wind turbine or solar farm, if they won't get money from it?

Why will anyone build battery storage?

 

[nut]

Why will anyone build a wind turbine or solar farm, if they won't get money from it?

Why will anyone build battery storage?

Demand tariffs are already a thing.
Think data plans on the nbn …

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Demand tariffs are already a thing.
Think data plans on the nbn …

The people building infrastructure will expect a return on their investment.
NBN is public infrastructure.

 

[nut]

The people building infrastructure will expect a return on their investment.
NBN is public infrastructure.

They get a return from power plans… usage will be minimal. The NBN is still profitable with unlimited data. …

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They get a return from power plans… usage will be minimal. The NBN is still profitable with unlimited data. …

One way or another they will need a lot of money.
Its only on sunny , windy days it will be particularly cheap or free.

 

[nut]

One way or another they will need a lot of money.
Its only on sunny , windy days it will be particularly cheap or free.

Firm renewables = generation and storage.
The cost of firm renewables continues to plummet as technologies bring the cost down.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Firm renewables = generation and storage.
The cost of firm renewables continues to plummet as technologies bring the cost down.

Both correct.
But the cost of "firm renewables" isn't and won't plummet.

 

[nut]

Both correct.
But the cost of "firm renewables" isn't and won't plummet.

History of solar energy prices | AVENSTON

Tendency to increase the amount of installation of PV plants becomes obvious. One of the reasons is the decrease in prices for solar modules.

avenston.com

plummeting … falling… getting cheaper by the day…..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

History of solar energy prices | AVENSTON

Tendency to increase the amount of installation of PV plants becomes obvious. One of the reasons is the decrease in prices for solar modules.

avenston.com

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plummeting … falling… getting cheaper by the day…..

Whatever you say.

I can't even see a good reason to use lithium ion batteries for fixed storage facilities. They make more sense for portability.

 

[nut]

Whatever you say.

I can't even see a good reason to use lithium ion batteries for fixed storage facilities. They make more sense for portability.

You said they weren’t plummeting … the prices have fallen and continue to fall.… Lithium phosphate batteries have taken over anyhow and are cheaper to produce, sodium batteries are starting to bring prices down further.
Cheaper fixed storage alternatives are being developed all the time ..

The notion that no one will invest in renewables because the returns aren’t there is fallacy.

Keeping people on the grid and stopping them disconnecting will be the biggest challenge.

 

[peetoo]

As noted technology opportunity only just starting to happen.

Slthough and hydro almost pre dates burning oil (and aren’t the whales happy we stopped burning them)

Tidal hydro. Where that exists, it’s guaranteed to run twice per day, sometimes significant in both directions

 

[nut]

$31k for a base model MG4

$8k off other models.

The price war has started.

 

[Captivating]

^ this is not the good news that you think it is.

At one point, curved TV's were also heavily discounted.

 

[nut]

^ this is not the good news that you think it is.

At one point, curved TV's were also heavily discounted.

Please explain….

So making EVs more affordable is a negative?
31k for a car with a 10 year warranty.

 

[Captivating]

Products with a high demand aren't discounted.

 

[Cap]

Products with a high demand aren't discounted.

we will give you some more time to reconsider this post before we start laughing at you.

 

[Cap]

Please explain….

So making EVs more affordable is a negative?
31k for a car with a 10 year warranty.

because they don't like EVs

i can think on 1 issue. When to buy....how much lower are they going to get as batteries get cheaper ?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

because they don't like EVs

i can think on 1 issue. When to buy....how much lower are they going to get as batteries get cheaper ?

Batteries/electric motors still have a significant cost.
You take a car with a 4 cylinder engine, and it costs around $20 000.
Getting the same car in an EV version costs around $30 000.
Your , Battery +electric motors, minus the cost of a 4 cylinder engine, is still half the price of the car.

 

[peetoo]

Electric Motor powered vehicles are the way.

Batteries like lithium may just be a stepping stone.

 

[nut]

Batteries/electric motors still have a significant cost.
You take a car with a 4 cylinder engine, and it costs around $20 000.
Getting the same car in an EV version costs around $30 000.
Your , Battery +electric motors, minus the cost of a 4 cylinder engine, is still half the price of the car.

Cheaper better cars are coming.
Electric motors are cheaper and more reliable with less servicing.
The running costs, even with charging, are significantly cheaper over time than ICE cars.
A 10 year old ICE car is riddled with problems. EVs warranties are better.
The big issue was the initial upfront costs .. that has basically gone.
They are also safer… with experts saying that in the future seat belts might not even be needed…
I just lost a friend in a car accident where he was crashed by the petrol engine.

 

[nut]

 

[Captivating]

Cheaper better cars are coming.
Electric motors are cheaper and more reliable with less servicing.
The running costs, even with charging, are significantly cheaper over time than ICE cars.
A 10 year old ICE car is riddled with problems. EVs warranties are better.
The big issue was the initial upfront costs .. that has basically gone.
They are also safer… with experts saying that in the future seat belts might not even be needed…
I just lost a friend in a car accident where he was crashed by the petrol engine.

Sorry for your loss.

Dare I say, if you are in an accident where an occupant is crushed by the engine block, then the outcome isn't going to change in an EV.

 

[peetoo]

How many hundreds of teslas will this stuff surpass in terms of helping the environment

Forrest strikes $4 billion deal for electric trucks and dozers to eliminate fossil fuels at giant mines

Fortescue announces $4 billion deal for hundreds of electric trucks, dozers and excavators to help eliminate fossil fuels at its mines by the end of the decade.

reneweconomy.com.au

 

[nut]

Sorry for your loss.

Dare I say, if you are in an accident where an occupant is crushed by the engine block, then the outcome isn't going to change in an EV.

You realise there isn’t an engine block or massive gear box.