Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[ThirdLegUp]

Absolutely Butane. This is what always worries me, a shadow in my thoughts if you will. focusing on 1 type of player rather then getting the best player irrespective of position.
But no matter which angle you chose, there are negatives. Too many of one type, having to ignore a certain gun player because you already have a couple, picking 2 players to fill one hole, to improve the chances that at least one if not both will work, but hence not filling another hole....Such is the organised chaos that is the draft i guess

 

[ErnieSigley]

How ????

Read again.
By getting a decent coach which we don't have.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

We get it Earnie, you didn't want Macca as coach, so when the dogs chose him as coach you decided to go on a pointless crusade to undermine his every action, by pointing out anything as a mistake worthy of sacking, especially all those wrongs committed before he even got here.

Once again, a get rid of coach post without 1 decent argument to date. THAT is trolling, Earnie, you do it to get a rise out of people. because the only response to that can be "WHY?" as to which you then regurgitate the same rubbish argument which we didn't buy the prior 30 times...rinse and repeat.

 

[Igloo]

Read again.
By getting a decent coach which we don't have.

Who's the decent coach?

(I have abandoned my personal ban for this thread. I didn't stick to the rules anyway )

 

[Interloper]

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Before this weekends games only 2 of the top 8 on the ladder were in the positive column for clearances and contested footy - Only 2. That indicates that a fair chunk of the comps best teams are winning it on the outside of a contest - not the inside. I am glad you are glad that we are only teaching contested footy but I think its fair for the rest of us to acknowledge we do it well but question why we havent developed an outside game over the off season. I dont expect to win it - just improve in that area.

I tend to think that game by game the contested possessions and clearances in games between the top teams are a bit more even. Geelong can't afford necessarily to concede centre bounce clearances to Sydney in the way they might with us because Sydney won't turn it over like we do and know how to use it effectively when they do win it. At the point that we progress in our ball use from clearances other teams will want to compete more intensely at clearances because we might actually do something damaging with it. But that's not the case at the moment and there is a high chance we'll turn it over under a bit of pressure so it's not as critical to compete (especially centre bounces). And we get these situations where several of our players are going in for the same thing (eg diving in to win the ball) leaving several of their players unattended in space to take advantage when we get in each others way and f*** it up. Some of this is inexperience in our players, some lack of talent and some just lack of vision/awareness/nous/smarts/judgement.
We need ball players with vision around clearances but those players also have to be able to contest in their own right when it's their turn to go. Judgement of when it's your turn and knowing what to do and when to do it around the contest. Are you winning the ball, blocking, running into space or defending. At least four things to consider in a split second and then choose the right option more often than not. Judgement and vision in the players around the clearances is a big issue I think. When we get ball users with good judgement then we'll get the outside run/game because the players around the contest will have anticipated it correctly and one will have run to space while the others have won the ball, blocked and distributed. Then we'll be dangerous and when teams then decide that they have to compete with us at every clearance we'll still be accustomed to and know how to win them (we've just added what to do with it when we win it).
In summary, we need Hrovat, Prudden and Hunter to get games this year, and more next year. Ditto Stringer and McCrae. We need to reduce as quickly as practicably possible the number of games Boyd and Cross play. Wally needs to go back to VFL for a while and we rule a line through Tutt, Howard and Vez.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

He won't say. He's enjoying being the focus of attention. Must be the real Ernie Sigley I reckon.

 

[Mutt]

He won't say. He's enjoying being the focus of attention. Must be the real Ernie Sigley I reckon.

Ask him if he's allowed to post on WOOF again yet. And he's not the real ES - the real Ernie is a gun bloke.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Ok, withdrawn.

 

[ErnieSigley]

We get it Earnie, you didn't want Macca as coach, so when the dogs chose him as coach you decided to go on a pointless crusade to undermine his every action, by pointing out anything as a mistake worthy of sacking, especially all those wrongs committed before he even got here.

Once again, a get rid of coach post without 1 decent argument to date. THAT is trolling, Earnie, you do it to get a rise out of people. because the only response to that can be "WHY?" as to which you then regurgitate the same rubbish argument which we didn't buy the prior 30 times...rinse and repeat.

Wrong.
When he was first appointed, I defended the fact he had not played the game at the highest level when others thought it matters.
I have him more chances than others.
Now that there is proof he can't coach, we need to move him on.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Who's the decent coach?

(I have abandoned my personal ban for this thread. I didn't stick to the rules anyway )

Again it ain't Bmac

 

[fronkalicious]

Our fixture hasn't helped us
going up against mature teams.

Screw the fixture. Excuses. Don't want McCartney sacked, but I have no interest in hearing about the draw. So we're just going to wait around until we get to play gws and melbourne? Seriously. Port Melbourne could beat those 2 so cheering about winning either of those is embarrassing.

 

[Zgope1]

I was really upset with Saturday's game tbh. Furious. I never got excited even when we hit the front because i felt like we only really controlled the game for about 10-15 minutes, some of our blowouts last year we controlled for a half of football like Sydney, Geelong games.

Also i feel like we really shouldn't have fallen away like we did. We weren't that young and one 6 day break wouldn't have done that much. several maybe.

The game made me think that if Jmac has a special bond with James Frawley then that would be bloody great. Wouldn't mind locking in another genuine key back. We're struggling to keep Roughead on the genuine gun forwards for long enough because of so many freakish ruck forwards these days.

Despite the pessimism i felt on Saturday i feel like it was mainly because our rays of light really weren't there. Our better players were Murphy and Griffen ffs. I wanted more that i could take into the future. I'll take a 50 point loss if our young guns are firing but really apart from 2 screamers Jones had his pants pulled down. Roughy was good on Drew but it's not really something that you could enjoy a red wine over, not a perfect game. Libba is going to be a jet and didn't get going like he has. Wallis losing form really hurt. I'm putting this year down to the "effective second year blues" this is the year that he is going to get more attention than any other year. He needs to work through it.

My ticks were maybe Dahl, definitely Young and definitely Lower.

On the whole though i have no doubt our players are developing and they are good. We could do with more as we'll get more but we have a bunch of kids all improving. Saturday just wasn't a good example. I'll stick with Macca just to the end of his contract because it's pretty clear to me that our kids are coming through well. -Compare Stringer and Macrae's first few games to those of Toumpas. Similar talents- hugely different outputs, and it's because of the system they're in.

In summary, as long as the players are coming along i don't mind. Results don't matter MUCH in the next year and a half. Saturday hurt because we really didn't see much from our kids. Having said that, our two key posts were being held by players that have come a LONG way since his arrival, and although they didn't set it on fire, they will be in 25 more games and with their midfield teammates getting the same experience.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Absolutely Butane. This is what always worries me, a shadow in my thoughts if you will. focusing on 1 type of player rather then getting the best player irrespective of position.
But no matter which angle you chose, there are negatives. Too many of one type, having to ignore a certain gun player because you already have a couple, picking 2 players to fill one hole, to improve the chances that at least one if not both will work, but hence not filling another hole....Such is the organised chaos that is the draft i guess

The concentration on one position can be an issue but I really don't see how it is at the Dogs. I also really don't see how McCartney has in any way contributed to it.

Right now the dogs look like they've got a heap of inside mids because that contested game is a lot of what McCartney's trying to teach. Guys like Libba and Wallis aren't just inside mids. They're still developing but should be good enough to play a large variety of roles. The problem is that with an aging Cross and Boyd and without the likes of Murphy, Higgins and Griffen you started to look slow. No real surprises there.

Looking at the players McCartney's got in to the club I don't think you could say he's got too many inside mids. These are the players he's got in:

2011: Smith, Talia, Pearce, Dixon, Roberts, Jong, Campbell, Greenwood, Redpath, Austin.
2012: Stringer, Macrae, Hrovat, Hunter, Pruden, Goodes, Stevens, Young, Lower

How many of them are purely inside players? There's a bunch of your rookies from last year that I don't know well but would you say any of them are purely inside players? Of the guys who have featured this year none of them are only inside players.

Just because right now you're being slowed down by a few aging warriors and you're trying to teach the young guys some contested ball lessons doesn't mean a player like Smith shouldn't become a really damaging weapon on the spread as well.

 

[Igloo]

Again it ain't Bmac

Ok. Who is it then?

 

[ThirdLegUp]

The concentration on one position can be an issue but I really don't see how it is at the Dogs. I also really don't see how McCartney has in any way contributed to it.

Right now the dogs look like they've got a heap of inside mids because that contested game is a lot of what McCartney's trying to teach. Guys like Libba and Wallis aren't just inside mids. They're still developing but should be good enough to play a large variety of roles. The problem is that with an aging Cross and Boyd and without the likes of Murphy, Higgins and Griffen you started to look slow. No real surprises there.

Looking at the players McCartney's got in to the club I don't think you could say he's got too many inside mids. These are the players he's got in:

2011: Smith, Talia, Pearce, Dixon, Roberts, Jong, Campbell, Greenwood, Redpath, Austin.
2012: Stringer, Macrae, Hrovat, Hunter, Pruden, Goodes, Stevens, Young, Lower

How many of them are purely inside players? There's a bunch of your rookies from last year that I don't know well but would you say any of them are purely inside players? Of the guys who have featured this year none of them are only inside players.

Just because right now you're being slowed down by a few aging warriors and you're trying to teach the young guys some contested ball lessons doesn't mean a player like Smith shouldn't become a really damaging weapon on the spread as well.

i agree with you, i was just talking in general regarding the draft and the next one to come. who to aim at, do we look for specifics or the best we can get regardless of type. That kinda thing.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Ok. Who is it then?

You like going over the same thing 10 x.
Roll the dice again.

 

[Igloo]

You like going over the same thing 10 x.
Roll the dice again.

I see, so you have no idea. Continue dodging questions Ernie, you're doing a great job .
Unfortunately, it makes it clear as day you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Should be asking who have we drafted or traded for in the past 2 years that is very good by foot, a decision maker and/or fast.
Add they aren't 29yo.
A lot easier to teach someone appetitive for the ball than it is teaching them to run faster, make the right decisions and kick better.

 

[ErnieSigley]

I see, so you have no idea. Continue dodging questions Ernie, you're doing a great job .
Unfortunately, it makes it clear as day you have no idea what you're talking about.

What dodging question? My statement has always been about this coach not the next. Next one could be worse but I doubt it.

 

[TedDougChris]

Sucks if that's case though and we miss the next Scott West because we already have to many inside mids and pick up another Jarrad Grant because we need a tall. In a way I think it's why we picked Stringer and Macrae ahead of Ollie Wines - but that score won't be known for many many years.

Fair comment, but if we draft 4 of them - hopefully we get it right the first time and the other three can be elite outside runners....

 

[timtamWB]

What dodging question? My statement has always been about this coach not the next. Next one could be worse but I doubt it.

Ernie, the fact is you say we need an experienced coach. So we're asking you, who out there do you reckon would be good for the dogs to employ as a coach?

 

[StringyDog]

Should be asking who have we drafted or traded for in the past 2 years that is very good by foot, a decision maker and/or fast.
Add they aren't 29yo.
A lot easier to teach someone appetitive for the ball than it is teaching them to run faster, make the right decisions and kick better.

Is it, Why haven't 3 coaching groups been able to do it with Vez then and 2 groups with Tutt. It is just as hard to teach, you either have it or you don't.

 

[Igloo]

What dodging question? My statement has always been about this coach not the next. Next one could be worse but I doubt it.

The one I asked twice in a row... You say Macca isn't the right guy. Offer up a suggestion who is.

 

[TedDougChris]

Read again.
By getting a decent coach which we don't have.

ErnieSigley that is a crap answer and you know it. How will a new coach make the players fitter and able to run out 4 quarters... Please explain how you can make 16 players with one, two or three years experience instantly able to run for 120 minutes in one of the most demanding sports on the planet.

We have massively improved our fitness staff this year/end of last year - we have professionals with a wide and diverse background in sports science and strength and conditioning. If they say that the kids need more time and we can only get a certain output from them, who the hell are we to argue.. We are risking their long term future by pushing them any harder (a particular risk for someone like Stringer).

 

[Interloper]

Should be asking who have we drafted or traded for in the past 2 years that is very good by foot, a decision maker and/or fast.
Add they aren't 29yo.
A lot easier to teach someone appetitive for the ball than it is teaching them to run faster, make the right decisions and kick better.

We probably haven't traded in anyone that satisfies all of those criteria but they would have had to be a) available and b) affordable.
With respect to the draftees especially those from last years draft, it's possible that some of them might satisfy all of those criteria or certainly the first two (if speed is an and/or option as you suggest).