Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[Mattdougie]

Yes and last week Geelong were beaten by Brisbane, a team that we walloped. Did you see how Geelong dismantled Freo last night? The Geelong team had a few young kids playing too but their senior players really put on a clinic for Freo. Ask the Geelong senior players what they think of Macca, what he brought to that playing group. Why do we have Scarlett, Graham, King on our team?

David Rodan is a premiership player, WTF. He is the equivalent of us signing Acker. Not a spud.

Jack Watts was the most heralded no. 1 draft pick for many years. He is a good player. Do not believe all the Bay 13 negatives about him. I just hope you don't start bagging Stringer like people have bagged Jack Watts.

Our worst loss was 2010 against Geelong, the famous "is this the end of the Geelong Era" comment by delicious Brucie. How did that game and season work out for us under Eade?

Some perspective, please.

And how does that Geelong group(who most of are only at club 2 hours a week) seem to be helping us?? And anyone that has played in a flag you assume to be a good coach?

Tell me you just didn't compare Rodan to Aker? Rodan has struggled to get a kick this year in the VFL and he literally ran circles around us so yes he is a dud. Being a premiership player does not mean you are a great player. Many very average if not poor AFL level players have been lucky enough to be carried to flags.

And Jack watts has done nothing for 4 years! NOT A THING and last nite played like a gun. Regardless of how long he had taken to come they he has shown very little at anytime to prove he will be anything. Who has compared Watts and Stringer?? Never seen or heard a somgle person say that and it's moronic to suggest it.


Perspective is we got embarrassed to a third rate rabble and Mr personality talks about little steps with no passion AGAIN!

Sticking with him for another 18 months is purely and simply delaying any chance we have of moving forward. He is no good and has not improved us one inch in 18 months. In fact we are worse in my opinion

 

[boydsno1]

If things do not improve for the rest of the year and we lose to Melbourne in the last game then i suggest everyone take a white flag with them to the game and wave it after the loss. Was tempted to bring it out last night lol.

 

[cleveland]

Anyone got a direct email to Peter Gordon? I want him to see my thoughts

 

[Bulldog1954]

Tell me you just didn't compare Rodan to Aker? Rodan has struggled to get a kick this year in the VFL and he literally ran circles around us so yes he is a dud. Being a premiership player does not mean you are a great player. Many very average if not poor AFL level players have been lucky enough to be carried to flags.

Not to mention the fact that Rodan is not a Premiership Player? When was this supposed premiership Wayniac? Under 14's?

Rodan has played in one finals series throughout his career, he was also delisted by Richmond and then told he was delisted last year before being traded for pick 88. Throughout his career he has never made himself a good AFL player because he is unaccountable and runs one way. Aker is a tosser - but as a footballer he is in a different stratosphere to Rodan

 

[cleveland]

Not to mention the fact that Rodan is not a Premiership Player? When was this supposed premiership Wayniac? Under 14's?

Rodan has played in one finals series throughout his career, he was also delisted by Richmond and then told he was delisted last year before being traded for pick 88. Throughout his career he has never made himself a good AFL player because he is unaccountable and runs one way. Aker is a tosser - but as a footballer he is in a different stratosphere to Rodan

Aker>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rodan by a longway.........Aker is a brownlow medalist 3time premiership player and geniiune star of the comp

You have lost all credibility after this post

 

[cleveland]

Sorry I quoted the wrong person

 

[_Mike_]

Like many, Im just fed up with seeing a lame game week after week. To see them kick 9 goals in a quarter after kicking 6 for 3 makes me wonder that they are tanking for picks...

Ive tried to remain impartial with McCartney but for the second week he starts Cooney in defence and we get killed. Playing players out of position amazes me. Until he proves otherwise I will only consider McCartney an assistant coach.

 

[boydsno1]

We must be desperate for Boyd. Im all happy to get him but geez, The kid will have more pressure on him then Jack Watts. If he doesn't kick 10 goals on debut people will scream out that he is not the messiah we need.

 

[Wocka]

I have been a Macca backer but after last night i have my doubts and wouldn't be sad to see him go. I would love to see Gia coach the club but i know the club wouldn't have the balls to do it. Would just be great to have someone fresh out of the modern game with a passion for the club to be our coach through our rebuild. Atleast the players might play with more passion.

Surely you're joking ?

 

[Sedat!]

Until he proves otherwise I will only consider McCartney an assistant coach.

Development of the playing group is one facet of coaching, and match day tactical nous is another altogether - BMac has shown precious little of the latter since day 1. To be smashed on the spread last night against a team that regularly loses the uncontested possession count by over 100 really is an indictment on the coach and his complete and utter inability to counter the structure and tactics coming from the opposition coaches box. BMac desperately needs some senior assistant coach support sitting alongside him to guide him through the cut and thrust of match days otherwise he will not have a long career in senior AFL coaching. I currently have very little faith in BMac out-witting and out-coaching anyone else in the box on match days, and I've seen very little in the past 18 months to alter this perception. He has significant limitations in this crucial area IMO.

 

[Igloo]

With of first and second round picks, I'd be surprised if they weren't playing as well as they currently were. I'll give you Libba, he seems to be thriving. But in my opinion none of the other players are exceeding expectaitons. In other words, for a supposed great teacher, nobody except Liberatore, and maybe JJ due to starting off a low base, have been developed any further than what a normal, average AFL coach would.

Howard had quite a good 2011, and she should have cemented his place from there. Tutt boomed on debut. Vezpremi has hardly played a game, we would have been better off keeping Everitt. Grant is the most dissapointing for me. McCartney obviously doesn't like him, and therefore Grant doesn't try because he know's he's not going to get a game anyway. He has class and talent oozing, and McCartney still refuses to pick him, in the worst coached team in the league, an absolute rabble.

What evidence is there of McCartney being a great teacher and developer?

Not every first and second round pick works. That's pretty bloody obvious. You could do the same thing for pretty much every club in the league. Sydney have ****** numerous first round draft picks over the last few years, and they are the premiers.

Most of them are first or 2nd year players. You can't expect them to exceed expectations, especially when the group as a whole is playing shit.

As for Grant, your reasoning is ridiculous. Because he's talented you pick him? No. If he's having a sook about not getting a game, and consequently playing shit in the VFL, you don't pick him. What does that say to the rest of the playing group? Yeah sure, we'll give you a game if you have a cry and just mope around in the VFL. Bullshit.
I'd be surprised if Grant gets a game for the rest of the year, and frankly, I'll be disappointed if he IS picked unless he turns it around in the VFL. He'll free up a nice list spot at the end of the year if he keeps going like he is.

timtamWB
I suppose what I think he is trying to say is improvement in professional sportsmen is expected up until the age of around 27 when athletes will generally be at their peak (varies individually), so we would expect all our players up to 27 to be improving in all areas of play and members over 27 to be mentally improving and physically declining, see Gia. Maybe Macca has caused an acceleration of the rate of some players development but honestly I'd be expecting to see minor improvement week in week out from any young person engaging in spot regularly. Maybe macca has helped a lot of players but for young footballers to actually get WORSE between the ages of 20-22 is very odd and this is my concern.

You can expect it all you want, that's simply not how it works. Sometimes players don't work out, even if they have the best coach in the league.

 

[archibald23]

Not going to go into the detail others have invested. IMO let him see out his contract (end of next year). We aren't going to be pushing for a flag then, and he drafts and recruits well. Will give him an opportunity to prove he can coach, and if hes doesn't, our list will still be stronger for his involvement and we can look to a new coach without paying out his contract.

Our whole off-season should be devoted to forward structures, delivery etc. I think I only saw us not bomb it in twice for the whole game last night.

 

[Beasley]

So BMac's coaching has caused Boyd, Murphy, Griffen, Cooney to kick poorly, give me a break

For heavens sake, please don't include Griffen, Murphy and Cooney in the same sentence as Boyd when taping about kicking!!! That is an absolute insult.

 

[Beasley]

I'm not in the least bit inspired by McCartney. He talks in cliches and mixed metaphors and won't be bound to anything.

This is a very good point Anja. I watch all of his interviews and come away with very little confidence or reasoning that we are going forwards ....... or why we played poorly etc.

He spews out the same old rhetoric after every game and doesn't answer questions with specific answers. Take a look at sme of the post match net reviews ....... you will never hear him say "unfortunately our delivery and skills are poor, and our Captain isn't setting a great example etc". Nope, we are being fed the "quality young men" crap week in week out. At least Rocket and Plough would explain it how it really is. So does Malthouse and most other decent coaches.

 

[Beasley]

I suppose now we can judge on whether or not McCartney know what he's doing. If he's a Peter Rhode or more recently a Matt Primus, or an Alistair Clarkson.

When the ball is bounced next week, we should line up exactly how we did in the last quarter against Melbourne. Cooney playing forward and in the midfield; and Griffen and Libba with him in the middle.

But we all know McCartney won't do that because he's to put it bluntly, a bad coach.

And for a great 'teacher' of players, an awful lot of players have gone backward under his watch. Tutt, Howard, Grant, Vezpremi. ll the other players who have improved would have done so irrespective of the coach imo.[/]

Very good point!

 

[boydsno1]

Surely you're joking ?

Dead serious. Guy will make a great coach. Great football brain. Has passion and won't be afraid to give a spray when needed.

 

[cleveland]

Gia can coach our vfl team

 

[Beasley]

Gia can coach our vfl team

Nah, I think McCartney should be earmarked for that role. Gia can assist the new senior coach.

 

[Toastman]

This is a very good point Anja. I watch all of his interviews and come away with very little confidence or reasoning that we are going forwards ....... or why we played poorly etc.

He spews out the same old rhetoric after every game and doesn't answer questions with specific answers. Take a look at sme of the post match net reviews ....... you will never hear him say "unfortunately our delivery and skills are poor, and our Captain isn't setting a great example etc". Nope, we are being fed the "quality young men" crap week in week out. At least Rocket and Plough would explain it how it really is. So does Malthouse and most other decent coaches.

Yeah, we should get Terry Wallace back, he was always great with the post match interviews. Pity it didn't translate to his coaching.

With all the reasons you could have to put down Macca, the poor post match interview skills argument seems ridiculous. Maybe you should bring up the spelling error in his last piece in the last Bulldogs mag while your at it.

 

[Wocka]

Dead serious. Guy will make a great coach. Great football brain. Has passion and won't be afraid to give a spray when needed.

I can just image his spray to a forward line player.
"The ball came down and your man led you to it. You chased him for 10 meters and fell over with minimal contact. When you finally stood up, you were blowing that hard it looked like you'd run a marathon, then you put your hands on your head and watched your man run and link down the ground helping the opposition score as easy goal. Not good enough"

I'm 44 years old and have watched this bloke his ENTIRE career, not the last couple of years.

 

[boydsno1]

I have also watched him his entire career.

He may not be the most defensive player but that doesn't make him a poor coach.

 

[Wocka]

I have also watched him his entire career.

He may not be the most defensive player but that doesn't make him a poor coach.

That's true, but if I was young Libba, Wallis, Cordy or Hunter who probably grew up watching him play the "Do as I say, not do as I did" spray would be a bit hard to take.

 

[DylanW]

You can expect it all you want, that's simply not how it works. Sometimes players don't work out, even if they have the best coach in the league.

There is a pretty well established Algorithm for athlete development which is used on Football Manager which is respected as the best sporting model in the world. Players have the ability to improve up until the age of 27. Maybe some blokes peak early, but for players to get worse in this vital developmental period (up to 23-24) shows that there is some significant environmental stimuli. And don't say I'm basing my idea on some dumb computer game, it has been proven to be fairly accurate using a database of over 100,000 players for the last 10+ years with yearly updates to the engine.

 

[Igloo]

There is a pretty well established Algorithm for athlete development which is used on Football Manager which is respected as the best sporting model in the world. Players have the ability to improve up until the age of 27. Maybe some blokes peak early, but for players to get worse in this vital developmental period (up to 23-24) shows that there is some significant environmental stimuli. And don't say I'm basing my idea on some dumb computer game, it has been proven to be fairly accurate using a database of over 100,000 players for the last 10+ years with yearly updates to the engine.

The point is, not every player is the same. One club may get three 200 game players in one draft, all taken reasonably late in the draft. Another club might have three fairly high selections, but for whatever reason, they don't work out. Development, injury, personal reasons, desire, etc, all factor into it. It's not just a matter of age.

Using Howard as an individual example: He had injury troubles in his first few years. Had hip surgery early on in his career (and as Sentinel has said, has had a minor hip operation only recently, so it's still troubling him), and then did his knee. He didn't have a proper pre-season until the start of last year, and then he got injured in round 1 and was out for half a year. He hasn't been able to build up a proper base to get going, so his development can't be put down to Macca's coaching.

 

[timtamWB]

timtamWB
I suppose what I think he is trying to say is improvement in professional sportsmen is expected up until the age of around 27 when athletes will generally be at their peak (varies individually), so we would expect all our players up to 27 to be improving in all areas of play and members over 27 to be mentally improving and physically declining, see Gia. Maybe Macca has caused an acceleration of the rate of some players development but honestly I'd be expecting to see minor improvement week in week out from any young person engaging in spot regularly. Maybe macca has helped a lot of players but for young footballers to actually get WORSE between the ages of 20-22 is very odd and this is my concern.

Like you alluded to, I think Macca has definitely caused an acceleration of the rate of our younger plyares development. But as I stated before, those players between 20-22, the majority of them I never rated, like Howard, Tutt etc. And I really don't think that at any other team they would be flourishing and developing at all. In my opinion this isn't an indictment on Macca's player development, but just the fact that they're not very good players.