Elmer_Hauser
Celtics 2-0
I could see him being a good player for The Suns, unfortunately I think his contract may be a problem for them.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Traded Tom Mitchell - Traded to Collingwood as part of 3-way trade (details tbc)
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Wouldn't hawthorn pay it?
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TheBrownDog
Mitchell does, mcstay does (much as hes overpaid), hill maybe does. Im not convinced framptoon does hes barely a state league level player.
Respectfully disagree. You need both.
Ollie Wines is a slow inside bull and won the Brownlow last year. Cripps may be taller but is slow as treacle and won the Brownlow this year. Geelong is full of slow midfielders and just romped in the premiership. Lachie Neale is not explosive either and destroyed your midfield in a final.
In fact, I saw your comparison to Matt Crouch but this comparison is disingenuous. Crouch has been mostly playing SANFL. He's had one decent season in his career and not won a single league wide award.
Tom Mitchell is a multiple All Australian, a Brownlow medallist, an MVP winner, 3 B&F's and has been top 10 in the Brownlow 3 times (top 3 twice). It's like comparing Max Lynch and Jon Ceglar because they're "similar types".
Lachie Neale is also a multiple All Australian, Brownlow medallist, MVP winner, 4 B&F's and has been top 10 in the Brownlow 3 times (top 3 twice). His record (and playing style) is almost identical to Tom Mitchell.
Would you say Lachie Neale has no place in the modern game?
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No, I’m just disappointed
Why?
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Without looking it up I'd say Newcombe and Taylor Adams would compare fairly well
Hawks midfield got slapped all year, league 18th...yet shifted out their best clearance player. Hmm...
We needed to get games into our next generation.
Ward, Moore and Newcombe all took priority as the season evolved.
From all reports, we explored options to do so.
It seems as though Tom himself was not overly keen to be traded (given his responses to the multiple interviews on the topic last year).
Which makes some sense- Tom had gotten back to full fitness after multiple injuries, gotten back to scintillating form in the back end of 2021, collected the most Brownlow votes in the league in the 2nd half of the year, Hawthorn finished the year strongly and their was an optimistic outlook with a new, young coach taking the helm. He won the best and fairest, had already left for greener pastures before and was Hawthorn's highest paid player. There wouldn't be much motivation to leave - especially if an offer was coming from a club like Collingwood, who finished lower on the ladder.
12 months on and Tom has been moved out of the middle and played on the flanks. He is no longer the main man, he will not win the B&F and his BL votes dropped right away as he is being played out of position. Collingwood have put an offer to him (which I'm sure includes a proper midfield role) and they just played off in a Prelim. The situation for Tom has changed significantly and I can see why he would have had a change of heart.
They are terrible comparisons. Wines and Cripps have far greater impact than Mitchell does and both are much bigger bodies. Neale has become much more well rounded and impactful in the last few seasons. He used to be a kick chaser.
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McStay is a great up pick for Collingwood, its just the bloody cost of it. Hill is the one I'm not 100% sure is a need, but can see Wright's angle with it, as we don't necessarily have enough super-speedy smalls that can crumb and pressure.
Frampton is purely a break-glass emergency - we just don't have enough coverage if Moore pings his hammy again and Howe is clearly not what he was 2-3 years ago pre-PCL. I'd say Charlie Dean is ahead of Frampton, but even he hasn't played an AFL game yet. We might be better off finding a 25 year old VFL defender, but Frampton has that AFL experience on his side, and has had the odd good game at senior level previously.
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Can you please elaborate on what you mean by greater impact? What are the KPIs that validate that view exactly? Also, what does the bigger body argument even have to do with it? lol Mitchell is still a veeeery good inside midfielder that wins CP and clearances...
I mean watch them play. Mitchells and Neales stats wouldn't be too far apart on paper but in reality Neale is a much, much better player. Wines and Cripps are bulls. They draw in 2 or 3 players, stand up in a tackle and dish it off. Mitchell fires off a handball and looks for another handball receive then rinse and repeat. It is alot easier to shut down.
Let's be honest if they were i the same class would Sam Mitchell have removed Tom from Hawks midfield? Not a chance. Got to be able to look beyond the stats sheet occasionally.
Go look at the data. Lachie Neale is perceived now as significantly better mostly because his team is better. Go look at his stats - they're basically identical to what they have always been. Someone has 30 touches and 10 clearances and their team lose and people say "ineffective", "couldn't affect the result" and other ignorant stuff. Someone plays the exact same and their team win and suddenly the same player is perceived as a match winner.
Tom Mitchell is actually a decent example of this (just like Neale). Hawthorn finish top 4 and he sweeps every award and is perceived by most to be the best player in the game. Similarly impactful in others seasons but Hawthorn struggle and he is an "ineffective stat padder".
Also don't know how you can say Neale is a "terrible comparison". The are the same age, they play the same position, they were drafted the same year, they are a similar height and weight, they have similar attributes, they're awards (as already shown) are basically identical, their career averages in nearly every stat is almost exactly the same. Who is a better comparison in the entire league? Matt Crouch? I 've already demonstrated how laughable that is.
Read for yourself
‘Better than I was’: Neale reveals crucial body transformation that’s elevated him past record season
‘Wasn’t able to have as many beers’: Lions star opens up on shock body transformation
www.foxsports.com.au
‘Better than I was’: Neale reveals crucial body transformation that’s elevated him past record season
‘Wasn’t able to have as many beers’: Lions star opens up on shock body transformation
Yes, thank you. It is a puff piece that basically says he has dropped 3 kgs and improved in 2022 from 2021 (which is not surprising given his injury concerns and poor form in 2021). It incidentally highlights he was probably better in 2020 than 2022 (which all empirical evidence would back up).
The same could have been said of Tom Mitchell last year. He got over some injury concerns, improved significantly on a less impactful 2020 (where he still got big numbers but was having less impact following leg break and shoulder issues) and returned to top form in the second half of the year - shunting him into the AA squad and finishing top 6 in the Brownlow (with the most votes in the 2nd half of the year) - but still not quite at 2018 level (just like Neale's 2022 was still not quite his 2020 level).
Am I saying Tom Mitchell was as good as Neale in 2022? Of course not! But they ARE comparable players. They DO play very similarly and have near identical career records, stats and playing style. The idea that Mitchell can't play the modern game is ridiculous - just as it would be if you said the same of Neale. I also think if you put Mitchell in the Brisbane midfield and you put Neale as a "pinch hitter" in the Hawthorn midfield, you would be saying the inverse. and before you say that Hawthorn wouldn't do that with Neale, remember that Mitchell had a better and more impactful 2021 than what Neale did. They also moved Wingard and O'Meara out of the middle too (who are the opposite of "stat padders") - it has nothing to do with the type of player they are and everything to do with being future focussed.
Yeah....just no where near as good
Yeah....just no where near as good
OH goodness. How does one ignore the whole emphasis of the post to focus on this one part. 2022 doesn't define Tom Mitchell (when played out of position), just as 2021 doesn't define Lachie Neale. This time last year, people would have said: 1. Mitchell, 2. Neale, 3. Cripps (with Wines clearly ahead of all 3) on the year. This season was basically the exact opposite.
In fact, both players broke out to be elite around 2017. IN the 6 seasons from then until now, Mitchell has been better in 3 (2017, 2018 and 2021) and Neale has been better in 3 (2019, 2020 and 2022) - remembering that Mitchell played 0 games in 2019 and was recovering from a double leg break in 2020.
Their career accolades are almost identical. Mitchell is ahead on nearly every stat over their careers - even the impact ones. You've also said Mitchell's style is easier to shut down, even though Neale has proven to be much more affected by a tag than what Mitchell is. and you suggested Neale wouldn't be rotated out of the Hawthorn midfield, even though this was a strategy implemented in the off season after Mitchell's year was obviously better and more impactful than Neale's.
If he does go to Collingwood, I think you'll be surprised (though he will always have his (unfair) detractors, just as Neale, Merrett and others do).
BEEG
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Pies lack clearances and for the price this bloke could be a bargain.
Pendles and Sidebottom are close to the end, Mitchell gives us 3 good years it will be a great get.
Pendles and Sidebottom are close to the end, Mitchell gives us 3 good years it will be a great get.
If he was as good as you think the Hawks wouldn't be pushing him out the door and paying part of his salary to do so. Even rebuilding teams need a decent core or you have a season like North and that is the last thing clubs want or need.
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Don't mind this at all.. and he did look good on Brownlow night in the black and white mate.. that's it mate.
We have tried to trade any of our senior players that have value and will net us decent draft compensation to further our rebuild. The fact he is a good player is more reason to trade him as there is no point trading players like Liam Shiels for whom we will receive nothing back.
We looked at options for Breust (and were offered Pick 13) but Breust didn't want to go. Same story for Wingard (also offered pick 13) and Mitchell last season. We tested the market for O'Meara too. The reason to pay part of his salary is to net more in the trade - we have oodles of cap space but are looking for more draft capital - which is fairly obvious.
Regardless of which senior player of 2 gets traded- we still have plenty of experience left to guide the young players. Right now, we have Gunston, Breust, Mitchell, O'Meara, Sicily, etc, etc. If we weren't rebuilding, you can bet your last dollar he would be the last player traded.
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Firstly, Eagles haven't started their rebuild so not a fair comparison at all. Cunnington had testicular cancer, is a shadow of his former self and would net nothing in a trade. North also did trade out many of their senior players with currency already.
Hawthorn still have a senior core, want to rebuild (their midfield in particular) and are looking at acquiring draft capital through trading 1 or 2 senior players with value.
It's not hard at all to follow.
Elmer_Hauser
Celtics 2-0
I just assumed the trading club paying most (if not all) of Mitchell's contract for 2023 is a pivotal reason for Hawthorn to trade him
Don't see any logistical upside for the Hawks otherwise (especially as he Is a Brownlow medalist)
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Nope they need a inside mid accumulater. Although I agree about the game style but where did Richmond really struggle with in 21 & 22? Centre bouce/stoppage clearances, hence why we're going all chips in for TT & JH.Not the sort of player Pies need. Won't fit their attacking, fast ball movement.
Fiorini, Mitchell, Frampton, McStay and Hill. My god that's an underwhelming group of ins
The ones I do not understand is the McStay & Hill ones but remember they're getting McStay for free essentially. Hill is the most confusing as they have such good smalls ready with Elliot & Ginni ect. Frampton is just KP depth will cost a bag of crisps.
We could've had Mitchell last year if we wanted him. Taranto and Hopper are much better fits for us....and any other team.
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