Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[paul scholes]

Don't take two ruckmen that have played 20 games each and go "Ok, we've got rid of Minson. We're challenging for the 8 this year. You guys are carrying the ruck division, good luck "

Keep Minson, but rest him a few times, have Cordy/Campbell be the ruckmen in a few games with no Minson or anyone else to help out. If they're ready, then Minson can go end of next year. But don't just throw them in the deep end.

The only time Will has played his best footy is when he's thrown in the deep end as the sole ruck. Give young blokes responsibility, back in the development and coaching of these two.

 

[timtamWB]

The only time Will has played his best footy is when he's thrown in the deep end as the sole ruck. Give young blokes responsibility, back in the development and coaching of these two.

Sure. After 8 years in the system and 115 games. Before then he was never the sole ruck, maybe for 1 or 2 games.

 

[go you pups]

Sure. After 8 years in the system and 115 games. Before then he was never the sole ruck, maybe for 1 or 2 games.

I remember those days in 05/06 when Minson shouldered the load with Skipper and occasionally Street once the professional fence sitter went down with a knee. It wasn't that bad of a combo, just Skipper wasn't tall enough and Street was Street.

If we found another professional fence sitter type of ruck/fwd then that would make the team almost complete, etc can run round the ground and rack the possies up or go forward and clunk a few, we hadn't had a ruckman like him since maybe Barry Round.

Having Campbell and Roughead shoulder the load could work because we know Roughy is competent out of the goalsquare at both ends, both Minson and the fence sitter were late bloomers having been shielded by Hudson, Wynd etc.

 

[timtamWB]

I remember those days in 05/06 when Minson shouldered the load with Skipper and occasionally Street once the professional fence sitter went down with a knee. It wasn't that bad of a combo, just Skipper wasn't tall enough and Street was Street.

If we found another professional fence sitter type of ruck/fwd then that would make the team almost complete, etc can run round the ground and rack the possies up or go forward and clunk a few, we hadn't had a ruckman like him since maybe Barry Round.

Having Campbell and Roughead shoulder the load could work because we know Roughy is competent out of the goalsquare at both ends, both Minson and the fence sitter were late bloomers having been shielded by Hudson, Wynd etc.

The problem is, there aren't any of those on the market except for Giles. And I don't really want to go for him, I don't think he's that great.

And the problem with using Roughy, who is our FB? Talia, Roberts, Morris all just don't work as a FB for varying reasons. So we'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[Ant_]

Campbell's not ready for the number 1 ruck, we'd suffer without Will.

I'd not trade Will unless we got an offer too good to refuse. Which what's been banded about hasn't come close to.

 

[go you pups]

The problem is, there aren't any of those on the market except for Giles. And I don't really want to go for him, I don't think he's that great.

And the problem with using Roughy, who is our FB? Talia, Roberts, Morris all just don't work as a FB for varying reasons. So we'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Talia is definitely a FB/Lockdown type and will fill out more over summer, Roberts is a CHB/Intercepter, Roughy could work similarly to what Jackson Trengrove does or if the opposition don't have gorilla KPFs he plays forward and takes a big body away etc like what Ben Holland did at Melbourne.

 

[timtamWB]

Talia is definitely a FB/Lockdown type and will fill out more over summer, Roberts is a CHB/Intercepter, Roughy could work similarly to what Jackson Trengrove does or if the opposition don't have gorilla KPFs he plays forward and takes a big body away etc like what Ben Holland did at Melbourne.

If we trade Minson, we're not making the 8. If you're ok with that, then that's great. But the vast majority of supporters wouldn't be.

 

[dogwatch]

I know we need a good KPF. That's a perennial. We might need a ruck and a KPD as well.

However I reckon we need at least one very good running HBF who can rebound and launch attacks. This has been a chronic deficiency since before Hargrave retired. Look at what we have been doing in this area:

Wood - recurring soft tissue injuries but finally showed some consistent form in 2014. However he usually plays deeper in defence and now he apparently wants to leave. POSSIBLE WIN ... if he stays.
Murphy - gun HF shifted to HBF out of expediency = WIN ... although we really needed him at HF still ...
... and as he is over 30 we know he won't be around much longer, so the search continues.

Goodes - a gun midfielder in the VFL is elevated from rookie list and played at HBF where he is not well suited. FAIL
Higgins - an excellent playmaker at HF is shifted to defence in a copy of the Murphy move, but he doesn't have the pace, agility or defensive nous. Unhappy playing in defence and now he reportedly wants to leave under FA. FAIL
Howard - a reach in the draft as a wing or HBF, supposedly with excellent delivery, ended up playing a lot at HBF. FAIL
Fuller - another supposedly excellent kick and a reach in the ND, had his season cruelled by injury but hasn't done anything of note yet. LIKELY FAIL
Pearce - admittedly only a pick in the 50s, but hasn't impressed in his time at the club. Likely to be delisted. FAIL
Cooney - being squeezed out of midfield by fitter and younger players, was tried at HBF and was terrible at it. FAIL
Darley - traded in as a good kick and plays HBF but doesn't get heaps of the ball and still needs to fill out. JURY STILL OUT
Johannisen - plays deep in defence a fair bit but may be better as a winger. Looks a real prospect but is he too short to be a genuine HBF? JURY STILL OUT
Stringer - tried in defence, supposedly only for the learning experience - or was it? Anyway he's definitely wasted back there. FAIL
Jong - just starting to come good in the midfield after three years as a rookie. Please Macca, don't try to make him a HBF!! NOT A CANDIDATE!

NB: I don't count Young and Morris as running half backs who launch attacks. Young is a FAIL anyway, and Morris (who is not noted for his distribution) is always being co-opted as a KPD.

My point is that we have jerked our side around and played good players in sub-optimal positions for the want of a a good running half back. So the knock on effects are worse than just not having anyone to launch attacks - we also lose the value of someone who should be a forward or a midfielder.

We would be a much more dangerous and a better balanced side if we could recruit and develop (or trade) a tallish free-running player of the likes of Michael Johnson*. Say 188-193cm, good tank, excellent decision making and delivery, reasonable pace, defensive nous.

I would not be averse to using a high pick on such a player. Probably my top priority after a good KPF.

* Not suggesting we could get M.Johnson. Just using him as an example.

 

[go you pups]

If we trade Minson, we're not making the 8. If you're ok with that, then that's great. But the vast majority of supporters wouldn't be.

I don't expect us to make the 8 next year unless Carlisle walks, we get him as a DFA, Reid comes and we somehow land WHE also. 10 wins and challenging but finish 9th-12th is fine, must get 15+ games into the 3rd/4th year KPPs that we have, a season like what Richmond had in 2012 would be fine by me, something we can build on.

 

[Dav1d]

We would be a much more dangerous and a better balanced side if we could recruit and develop (or trade) a tallish free-running player of the likes of Michael Johnson*. Say 188-193cm, good tank, excellent decision making and delivery, reasonable pace, defensive nous.


* Not suggesting we could get M.Johnson. Just using him as an example.

A few types like that in the draft, but this is for list management

counting it as a win if we can get a KPD or KPF with our first pick and could possibly slide into the side as soon as next year

make the defense 'leak' proof as we gradually fix our attack

 

[timtamWB]

I don't expect us to make the 8 next year unless Carlisle walks, we get him as a DFA, Reid comes and we somehow land WHE also. 10 wins and challenging but finish 9th-12th is fine, must get 15+ games into the 3rd/4th year KPPs that we have, a season like what Richmond had in 2012 would be fine by me, something we can build on.

Sorry I meant challenge not make. If we get rid of Minson, we ain't finishing with 10 wins.

 

[dogwatch]

A few types like that in the draft, but this is for list management

Haha, so it is. However my post started from the observation that we are badly unbalanced by not having a good rebounding HBF other than Murphy especially as we stuff up others on the list by trying to make them fit this role. A couple of natural HBFs on the list could see us use other players where their natural talents are best suited.

 

[Dav1d]

Haha, so it is. However my post started from the observation that we are badly unbalanced by not having a good rebounding HBF other than Murphy especially as we stuff up others on the list by trying to make them fit this role. A couple of natural HBFs on the list could see us use other players where their natural talents are best suited.

Which players would you suggest, Malceski? I don't know other teams lists too well, would you say it is an immediate need?
That type of player I mean

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Haha, so it is. However my post started from the observation that we are badly unbalanced by not having a good rebounding HBF other than Murphy especially as we stuff up others on the list by trying to make them fit this role. A couple of natural HBFs on the list could see us use other players where their natural talents are best suited.

I'm hoping Zaine Cordy can be that player for us, but others see it differently. The early signs are good with Darley - he's prone to the odd error, but his disposal/ball drop is near elite, he's quick and evasive, and he's starting to compete physically. He's in that ballpark too, 186cm.

Just while we're on the topic of half back flankers. Despite our other draftees in Bontempelli and Honeychurch being considered 'project players', they played 19 games between them in 2014, and Fuller failed to debut. It'd be nice if he could put in the pre-season of his life and cement his place in the side next year - bloody hell, it must be late.

 

[paul scholes]

Sure. After 8 years in the system and 115 games. Before then he was never the sole ruck, maybe for 1 or 2 games.

Minson had his best year last year, and performed better when given the responsibility of being the main man.

 

[paul scholes]

If we trade Minson, we're not making the 8. If you're ok with that, then that's great. But the vast majority of supporters wouldn't be.

Does anyone actually seriously believe the Dogs can make the eight next season? They'll be pushing in 16 onwards I'd imagine

 

[dogwatch]

Which players would you suggest, Malceski? I don't know other teams lists too well, would you say it is an immediate need?
That type of player I mean

Yes, it's an immediate need.
I'm probably not a close enough observer of other clubs to suggest the best candidates, especially as I don't know who's available.
Malceski sounds good!

 

[go you pups]

Does anyone actually seriously believe the Dogs can make the eight next season? They'll be pushing in 16 onwards I'd imagine

We'll be better next year, the midfield will improve, the forward line will improve, it's just the rucks and defence that are the question.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Caro gave us a fair whack on Footy Classified last night. She expects heavy pressure on us going into the start of next season. Basically the older players don't get on with the coach, the older players don't get on with the younger players and the younger players are stuck in the middle.
Not a great atmosphere and Macca and the club in strife.

 

[Gghippo]

Caro gave us a fair whack on Footy Classified last night. She expects heavy pressure on us going into the start of next season. Basically the older players don't get on with the coach, the older players don't get on with the younger players and the younger players are stuck in the middle.
Not a great atmosphere and Macca and the club in strife.

Doesn't make any sense... under the BMac regime the plan has been consistent - only recruit and draft good people...

 

[ErnieSigley]

Doesn't make any sense... under the BMac regime the plan has been consistent - only recruit and draft good people...

That's a first, no other regime has ever tried this before

 

[VitalDread]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ba...engineering-exam/story-fndv8weh-1227068251424 not sure if srs or not

my old school mate studies the same course at Minno and he agreed, a lot of students did a lot of late nights and him included

 

[inyourfacedunk]

Caro gave us a fair whack on Footy Classified last night. She expects heavy pressure on us going into the start of next season. Basically the older players don't get on with the coach, the older players don't get on with the younger players and the younger players are stuck in the middle.
Not a great atmosphere and Macca and the club in strife.

I don't believe all of that, but let's say it is true. What does it matter? The younger players are the future and the older players are on their way out over the next season or two.

 

[JJHunter]

Between Campbell and the Ruckman we have tried to convert into a defender we are ready for life post Minson. I will miss him. Big Red too, may not be ready for the big time up forward just yet but he is ready for the second ruck role and well ahead of Cordy.

If Minson can land us an early second round pick, it needs to be seriously considered as it is likely to help us fill areas we are deficient in. I would consider it quite astute trading and a feather in the cap of our list management team.

Losing jones, however, is not an option. The club is just going to have to suck it up and pay what is required. Honestly, they should have extending his contract last year and avoided this possibility.

Its funny cause I think the form of Will and Jones largely linked to each other and poor selections.
It was obvious Minson was labouring yet we forced him to go one out week after week. I mean the Freo game was pure evidence of two rucks out working one - and how we didnt play a second ruck that game is beyond me when Campbell had been tearing it up at FFC.

Instead of a second ruck we play Jones and Redpath there.
I mean these guys should be focused on working their forward craft - not being run into the ground and jumped into by massive opposition rucks.
People say Jones tank is his problem - I tell you he was working pretty damn hard on the VFL GF. Maybe cause he didnt have to do any ruckwork !!!

So just one mistake saw Will get worn down and out of form and confidence now possibly out of the club (I dont think he will be traded btw)
While we see Jones unhappy after being dropped and not returned for 12 weeks.

I would like them both to stay personally as I still think they are better than any options behind them.

 

[Dav1d]

I don't believe all of that, but let's say it is true. What does it matter? The younger players are the future and the older players are on their way out over the next season or two.

I've heard that sort of stuff been said about us in the past
these Journos need to get some new material

once one journo starts writing an article about how the playing group is divided
all the other journos/media start taking it as fact

I don't believe there would be that much more drama at our club behind closed doors
then at any of the other clubs