List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5

[tiger_tough]

In the 2020 grand final we had Astbury and they didn't have Cameron.

You are weakening our defence to accommodate our weakest defender.

Yet there was no issues playing both Houli AND Short on our way to a dynasty.

Who did Salem and Bowey play on in last years grand final? Who did Short and Houli play in 2020 and 2019 and 2017? Who did Jetta play on in 2018? Who did 2016 Norm Smith medalist Johannisen play on? Or Caleb Daniel? etc etc etc.

You can't have a backline of only lockdown defenders. Ball movement is also key and that is Shorts strength...

 

[4tune8]

Its public knowledge, GWS *ed their cap.

Its public knowledge, GWS *ed their cap.

Yes, agreed. Was in response to a post saying that GWS have a plan to keep them both.

 

[Morro]

Yet there was no issues playing both Houli AND Short on our way to a dynasty.

Who did Salem and Bowey play on in last years grand final? Who did Short and Houli play in 2020 and 2019 and 2017? Who did Jetta play on in 2018? Who did 2016 Norm Smith medalist Johannisen play on? Or Caleb Daniel? etc etc etc.

You can't have a backline of only lockdown defenders. Ball movement is also key and that is Short strength...

Short and Rioli in full flight with mids pressuring the ball coming in would be bloody electric.

 

[Morro]

Yes, agreed. Was in response to a post saying that GWS have a plan to keep them both.

sorry dude

 

[Muddiemoose]

Ross has not made it yet.

Making AA these days is virtually meaningless. It just means your not a dud and have value. Others wanted to jack your value to get AA in a particular year or to

Exactly Ross hasn’t made it yet and his best position is still up for debate as he continues to develop

Hopper has made it and fills a need we badly have already and will only get worse in 12 months time when Cotchin retires and Prestia is another year older (both who can’t be counted on to play a full season either)

That is what list management is about
Identifying parts of the list that are weak and fixing it

Our midfield issues cost us games this year Taranto and Hopper go along way to addressing those issues

 

[biaseddustyfan]

Disposal efficiency can be misleading as they still consider any kick that travels over a certain distance an effective disposal, even if it results in a turnover. I can't remember the exact distance but I remember reading this somewhere.

It's over 40m I think, but it has to go to a 50/50 contest or better to be considered effective, which isn't a bad way to do it really. If you kick it 50m but straight to an oppo without a contest, that will still lower you efficiency

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Absolute BS, RCD can play on a wing, Ross struggles outside

RCD could run out of sight on a dark night, let alone run up and down a wing. If he could run he’d be a good player but at the moment he’s in the delist bucket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[avengers]

Agree, especially if its not a top 5-10 pick its just pure ass to get a good player.

Surprised afl teams aren’t open to trading more picks for talent! Anything after the top 5 is generally a lottery and even then there’s always 1 or 2 in the top 5 that are big busts

 

[4tune8]

I think we all have to sit back and digest the fact that salary dumps cost players and picks.

Whilst probably not as bad as Collingwoods cap issues in 2020 where they offloaded Treloar, Stephenson, Phillips and Bosenavulagi plus the equivalent of pick 41 to get their books back in order. Or GCS having to offload Will Brodie

17

Will Brodie

Age

26

Ht

190cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

8.2

3star

HB

10.8

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

10.0

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

2star

CL

3.0

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

5.4

5star

CL

2.8

5star

plus an equivalent pick 34 just to get him off the books last year.

GWS are known to have cap issues and it's why we'll get Taranto and Hopper relatively cheaply tradewise.

 

[Mr Magic]

Exactly Ross hasn’t made it yet and his best position is still up for debate as he continues to develop

Hopper has made it and fills a need we badly have already and will only get worse in 12 months time when Cotchin retires and Prestia is another year older (both who can’t be counted on to play a full season either)

That is what list management is about
Identifying parts of the list that are weak and fixing it

Our midfield issues cost us games this year Taranto and Hopper go along way to addressing those issues

Nah list management is about development. You cannot keep relying on trade unless its value trades and cherry picking players on the up. Thats what makes Scott's effort impressive at Geelong despite assistance from Wells

 

[Muddiemoose]

Surprised afl teams aren’t open to trading more picks for talent! Anything after the top 5 is generally a lottery and even then there’s always 1 or 2 in the top 5 that are big busts

The other factor in drafting is time
Generally speaking before a player can become entrenched in the best 22 and consistent enough we are talking anywhere from 2 - 3 years

Of course some come on earlier and some later but for the most part that’s the type of time frame you are looking at, plus like you said that comes with the risk that the draftee doesn't make it at all

If you want to fix an issue and feel the other parts of your list are strong enough to contend trading in established blue chips are the best way to do it
(Yes the cost is more up front but the risk from a development and time perspective are lower)

 

[Muddiemoose]

Nah list management is about development. You cannot keep relying on trade unless its value trades and cherry picking players on the up. Thats what makes Scott's effort impressive at Geelong despite assistance from Wells

But we haven’t just solely relied on trade, if anything we have doubled down on development and now ready to complement those developing players with known quantity’s

Bar Tarrant we haven’t brought in any established players since Lynch and since we have invested heavily in talent that we are developing (especially last year) and long term picking up Taranto and Hopper complements those players and assists their development and our list

 

[Dr Tigris]

Absolute BS, RCD can play on a wing, Ross struggles outside

RCD is not a wing - fast yes, good skills. Run all day, not . Smart with running patterns, not
RCD likes the inside of the contest. He can play outside, but is not a natural there.

Ross is fine outside. Great no. But he is a good link up player now. Not a wing, but good inside and outside.

So please don't BS me. I disagree. That's all.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

I think some people get too hung up on picks, some years you need to sacrifice picks to pick up guns.

Bringing in the spider and the insect will take pressure off Prestia, Cotch, Bolts, Dusty at times whereas this year teams just sat on them and if you could shut them out we had a bare cupboard to draw from.

What it also does is allow players like Ross and Sonsie to develop further without any real pressure to step into top line roles at this stage, they can now step back a cog which again benefits them and the team.

Shedda and Lambo have retired and we are about to replace them with mid 20's proven guns and some posters are pissed off about that and still want to go down the 18 year old kid route because they are terrified of giving up picks, sheesh.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Yet there was no issues playing both Houli AND Short on our way to a dynasty.

Who did Salem and Bowey play on in last years grand final? Who did Short and Houli play in 2020 and 2019 and 2017? Who did Jetta play on in 2018? Who did 2016 Norm Smith medalist Johannisen play on? Or Caleb Daniel? etc etc etc.

You can't have a backline of only lockdown defenders. Ball movement is also key and that is Shorts strength...

Rioli played forward. Now he's back. And he's better at it than Short. So is Baker.

I don't know if you watched us this year but our ball movement was electric. Rioli and Baker both use it better than Short and Rioli's surging runs through the guts are arguably more damaging than Houli's were and certainly way beyond any Short run.

Short made a decent fit of the midfield for much of the year, especially considering he was thrown in cold. I'll back him to improve again after an off-season to focus on it, and he'll be one of the players we look to to play the Lambert role. He only plays defence if Dan or Bakes are unavailable.

 

[Mr Magic]

But we haven’t just solely relied on trade, if anything we have doubled down on development and now ready to complement those developing players with known quantity’s

Bar Tarrant we haven’t brought in any established players since Lynch and since we have invested heavily in talent that we are developing (especially last year) and long term picking up Taranto and Hopper complements those players and assists their development and our list

Nah, you would not sack Clarke and co regardless, they have been very good.

Whatever happens, Brendan Gale and Balme needs to ensure Clarke and co stay and get well looked after, their efforts have been incredibly important

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

wankley reckons geelol can get the hopper deal done but richmond cant

They(Sen) across the board have been told too say anything to get the biggest membership to ring up.It means $'s.
If our supporters don't ring i bey you they move onto the next big club.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Nah, you would not sack Clarke and co regardless, they have been very good.

Whatever happens, Brendan Gale and Balme needs to ensure Clarke and co stay and get well looked after

What are you talking about?

Sack Clarke?

This post makes absolutely no sense and even less when it’s posted as a reply to what I said

 

[Mr Magic]

But we haven’t just solely relied on trade, if anything we have doubled down on development and now ready to complement those developing players with known quantity’s

Bar Tarrant we haven’t brought in any established players since Lynch and since we have invested heavily in talent that we are developing (especially last year) and long term picking up Taranto and Hopper complements those players and assists their development and our list

We have no need to trade in two given the development occuring.

One maybe.

Its all well for Dimma, some of us want to be winning premierships in six years time when Dimma probably has gone elsewhere

 

[Mr Magic]

What are you talking about?

Sack Clarke?

This post makes absolutely no sense and even less when it’s posted as a reply to what I said

I am saying Clarke and co have been very good, almost faultless. No one is perfect, I think their hit rate is very good

 

[lvt06]

Nah list management is about development

Look at the last 3 years of drafts and tell me we haven't had a development focus and mindset.

Dow, Cumberland, Ralphsmith, Ryan, Jnr, Gibcus, Sonie, Clark.

RICHMOND

2019
National Draft:
21. Thomson Dow (Bendigo Pioneers/Vic Country) | 184cm | 76kg | Inside Midfielder
43. Noah Cumberland (Brisbane Lions Academy/Allies) | 183cm | 79kg | Medium Utility
44. Will Martyn (Brisbane Lions Academy/Allies) | 185cm | 83kg | Utility
46. Hugo Ralphsmith (Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro) | 188cm | 75kg | Forward/Midfielder
54. Bigoa Nyuon (Dandenong Stingrays/Vic Country) | 195cm | 87kg | Key Position Utility

2020
National Draft:
#40 Samson Ryan (Sherwood/Brisbane Lions Academy/Allies)
#51 Maurice Rioli Jnr (Oakleigh Chargers/NT Thunder/Allies)

2021

National Draft
#9 Josh Gibcus (GWV Rebels/Vic Country)
#17 Tom Brown (Murray Bushrangers/Vic Country)
#28 Tyler Sonsie (Eastern Ranges/Vic Metro)
#29 Sam Banks (Tasmania Devils/Tasmania)
#30 Judson Clarke (Dandenong Stingrays/Vic Country)

 

[Mr Magic]

RCD is not a wing - fast yes, good skills. Run all day, not . Smart with running patterns, not
RCD likes the inside of the contest. He can play outside, but is not a natural there.

Ross is fine outside. Great no. But he is a good link up player now. Not a wing, but good inside and outside.

So please don't BS me. I disagree. That's all.

Agree to disagree, but being absolute on youngsters is absurd when they are still developing. Its like bagging Brodie at the Gold Coast and now the coach is proven to be a fool

 

[juss]

I didn't think we needed both.

I know one will retire (Cotchin) and one is injury prone and older (Prestia), but I don't think we can play Taranto, Hopper, Prestia, Cotchin and Ross in the one side.

I'd hate for Ross to have another year slugging it away in the VFL and then ask for a trade out at the end of next year because he could only play 8 games, because I reckon he's really coming along nicely and will be a good long term player.

 

[Mr Magic]

Look at the last 3 years of drafts and tell me we haven't had a development focus and mindset.

Dow, Cumberland, Ralphsmith, Ryan, Jnr, Gibcus, Sonie, Clark.

RICHMOND

2019
National Draft:
21. Thomson Dow (Bendigo Pioneers/Vic Country) | 184cm | 76kg | Inside Midfielder
43. Noah Cumberland (Brisbane Lions Academy/Allies) | 183cm | 79kg | Medium Utility
44. Will Martyn (Brisbane Lions Academy/Allies) | 185cm | 83kg | Utility
46. Hugo Ralphsmith (Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro) | 188cm | 75kg | Forward/Midfielder
54. Bigoa Nyuon (Dandenong Stingrays/Vic Country) | 195cm | 87kg | Key Position Utility

2020
National Draft:
#40 Samson Ryan (Sherwood/Brisbane Lions Academy/Allies)
#51 Maurice Rioli Jnr (Oakleigh Chargers/NT Thunder/Allies)

2021

National Draft
#9 Josh Gibcus (GWV Rebels/Vic Country)
#17 Tom Brown (Murray Bushrangers/Vic Country)
#28 Tyler Sonsie (Eastern Ranges/Vic Metro)
#29 Sam Banks (Tasmania Devils/Tasmania)
#30 Judson Clarke (Dandenong Stingrays/Vic Country)

Thats right and there needs to be more, another six or so.

We are supposed to be a development factory, that is what coaching is about

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

It will be quite interesting to see what our best 22 looks like if we do land Hopper & Taranto, particularly if they're all fit. Grimes would have to come in for Gibcus and Sonsie would probably have to make way as well.

Who then do we take out of the backline to accommodate Short? Baker could possibly play Lambert's role I guess but we would still have to find room for another starting mid, does that mean resting all of Cotchin, Riewoldt, Martin & Prestia throughout the year? Would be a difficult choice if they're all fit, spose the chances though of that happening are Buckley's and none.

We'll manage Cotch to make sure he gets too 300,So he'll only play 13 games during the H&A.
I suspect we'll rest meatball along the way and others as well.