List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 6

[tora tora tora]

But we also dont play hard ball. Its just frustrating as we need the draft capital to rebuild.

You want to be dodoro and play hardball send them to the draft and getting nothing for a player?
Culture?
We did a dodoro with Higgins and got compensated fairly given he was contracted.

Not much interest in Butler so we get a lowly pick.
We win 2 more flags after Butler leaves we were not in rebuilding phase.
We had George and Rioli as small fwds and MRJ is on the way. Aarts gets games too.
We did a good deal for CJ and Chol compo was okay too.
So, picking up JVR instead of Brown might be more interest from other clubs if he's not best 22 in 3 years

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Yeah but your form past few days hasn’t been great so I’ll take that with a grain of salt

Even Dusty has a bad day or 2.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

How much is winning a game worth ?

11k per mark.At those rates the whole comp would be bankrupt.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

If Lynch at that type of day we’d call it a pass

We got higher standards.19 prelim.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

12 disposals
6 kicks and 6 handballs
4 tackles
3 marks
2 goals 3 points - 5 shots at goal
8 contested poss
7 score involvements
2 hit outs
4 one percenters
Kicked the winning goal
Saved the game on the last line of defence making a brilliant save

Not bad but still not worth 800k.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Hard part is convincing HH to come to a bottom 4 side like us. Can see him joining his brother at crows or replacing mccartin at swans or even a team on the up like essendon

Hope so.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

11k per mark.At those rates the whole comp would be bankrupt.

How much are we paying Bolton & Dusty per mark if you are looking at it that way ?

 

[All Aust]

But we also dont play hard ball. Its just frustrating as we need the draft capital to rebuild.

Tigers were the home of hardball until the recently including hand breaking their own players rights. A strategy worked like cancer from 1982 - 2016.
Hardball is something good to scream when you are;

anonymous and

have or take no responsibility.

 

[Mr Magic]

I've been on this site since 2004, and I seriously doubt that I've ever seen so much insane nonsense from anyone else than you. This includes opposition supporters.

Mr Magic? More like Mr Magshit. Annoying AF.

I tell you what it was not half the rubbish put out on the field on the weekend in Adelaide by us

 

[Mr Magic]

So we are going hawks style gut the list 8 year re build that may not even work like Carlton has copped

If campaigners are melting about the last few weeks wait until they are reminded what a completely gutted side looks like on field

Carlton have never done a rebuild, that is there problem

 

[Muddiemoose]

Carlton have never done a rebuild, that is there problem

Been rebuilding since 2014 mate

Mark Robinson: Carlton has officially started rebuilding, but what now for Mick Malthouse?

What does rebuild mean for Mick?

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Mr Magic]

Been rebuilding since 2014 mate

Mark Robinson: Carlton has officially started rebuilding, but what now for Mick Malthouse?

What does rebuild mean for Mick?

www.foxsports.com.au

no they haven't, mainly been topping up. Look at their trades

That is why they cannot win the premiership.

Never did a rebuild like Melbourne

 

[domin8]

no they haven't, mainly been topping up. Look at their trades

That is why they cannot win the premiership.

Never did a rebuild like Melbourne

Melbournes hand fed rebuild you mean

 

[Mr Magic]

Melbournes hand fed rebuild you mean

even so, still a rebuild.

Carlton has skeletons on the their list I think

 

[chrstphrwnstn]

I tell you what it was not half the rubbish put out on the field on the weekend in Adelaide by us

Na it wasn't half, it was tenfold.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

How much are we paying Bolton & Dusty per mark if you are looking at it that way ?

We’re paying those two per premiership R2R.

So far it’s approximately $2M per flag per player … very good business.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

So, picking up JVR instead of Brown might be more interest from other clubs if he's not best 22 in 3 years

A few things about these constant JVR references.

1. Any suggestion JVR will be a superior player to Brown is pure speculation at this stage. Maybe let's wait until at least a season or two in the seniors before anything beyond rudimentary judgment.

2. If we'd taken JVR, there's every chance Sonsie would not have made it to our next pick. The dominos would fallen very differently, and Melbourne themselves might well have grabbed him two picks later, given their main target JVR was gone. Or the club who's player Melbourne selected in the absence of JVR might've. And so on for nine draft picks. And we're all smitten with Tyler, aren't we?

3. Brown would almost certainly have been selected by Sydney the very next pick after ours. There is very little doubt in that - it was widely reported they were super keen. And on the absolutely miniscule chance the Swans had a sudden change of heart in their 5 minute allocation, Geelong would've definitely taken Brown at #24. Now just picture the melts if Brown was progressing well through the ranks at either of the two grand final teams from last year, maybe even played in the GF? Maybe had a flag already? Maybe even toweled us up last Friday night? And we had JVR not having even debuted at Tigerland yet?

Yeah, we might rue the decision. Or we might laud the decision. No point getting too strung out about it yet though.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

How much are we paying Bolton & Dusty per mark if you are looking at it that way ?

With Adjusted credits.
Probably half too what Hummingbird would cost us with no guarantee of a solid return to us share holders.compared too bluechip shai & Dusty.lol

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Carlton have never done a rebuild, that is there problem

What a load of crap

They have gutted the list twice and have had 4 x #1 picks
sos delisted 30 players in 3 years

Not sure which planet you have been on last 30 years

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Pick 17 and a future 2nd

We traded pick 17 to Geelong for the pick we used to get Brown and the future 2nd to draft Juddy Clarke in the 2021 draft

The exact trade was:

Higgins + the pick that ended up at 26 in the 2020 draft(Matthew Allison) + Richmond's 2021 fourth round pick(around pick 60 swallowed up in one of the NGA acquisitions Owens or Windhager.)

So, Higgins + about 875 draft points

for

the pick that ended up at 20 in the 2020 draft(Max Holmes) + the pick that ened up at 30 in the 2021 draft.

So 1541 draft points.

So in the actual trade for Higgins we ended up with a surplus of 666 draft points. This is about the value of pick 28.


However there were some other things to consider. We traded pick 20 in the 2020 draft to Geelong for pick 17 in the 2021 draft. This immediately elevated our surplus to 779 points, close to the value of pick 24. Then you also factor in we were trading out of the heavily Covid impacted 2020 guessing game draft and into the more certain 2021 where there was more talent available at our picks, it probably elevates the value we got a bit further to the equivalent value of a pick in the 15-20 range.

But the original trade only with Saints ended up being them gaining Higgins, Allison and a very small amount of points for Windhager, and us gaining Tom Brown and Judson Clarke.

 

[Noidnadroj]

A few things about these constant JVR references.

1. Any suggestion JVR will be a superior player to Brown is pure speculation at this stage. Maybe let's wait until at least a season or two in the seniors before anything beyond rudimentary judgment.

2. If we'd taken JVR, there's every chance Sonsie would not have made it to our next pick. The dominos would fallen very differently, and Melbourne themselves might well have grabbed him two picks later, given their main target JVR was gone. Or the club who's player Melbourne selected in the absence of JVR might've. And so on for nine draft picks. And we're all smitten with Tyler, aren't we?

3. Brown would almost certainly have been selected by Sydney the very next pick after ours. There is very little doubt in that - it was widely reported they were super keen. And on the absolutely miniscule chance the Swans had a sudden change of heart in their 5 minute allocation, Geelong would've definitely taken Brown at #24. Now just picture the melts if Brown was progressing well through the ranks at either of the two grand final teams from last year, maybe even played in the GF? Maybe had a flag already? Maybe even toweled us up last Friday night? And we had JVR not having even debuted at Tigerland yet?

Yeah, we might rue the decision. Or we might laud the decision. No point getting too strung out about it yet though.

Spot on …. 2-years ago Rankine over the King twins looked like a howler. Looking at the impact Rankine has and the injures being suffered by other top draftees I’d take him #1 or #2 (behind Max King)…. and that includes over Walsh.

Wayyyyy too early to bemoan taking Brown over JVR.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

If i was offered a choice of Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

or Jack Lukosius

12

Jack Lukosius

Age

24

Ht

195cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.8

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

369.3

5star

D

14.8

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.8

3star

MG

369.3

5star

D

13.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

358.0

5star

i would take jack every day of the week
Kids all class and looks like become a gun CHF if gold coast dont stuff him up

Jack Lukosius

12

Jack Lukosius

Age

24

Ht

195cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.8

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

369.3

5star

D

14.8

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.8

3star

MG

369.3

5star

D

13.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

358.0

5star

is the player i would love Richmond to target post Dusty

 

[Meteoric Rise]

If i was offered a choice of Ben King or Jack Lukosius i would take jack every day of the week
Kids all class and looks like become a gun CHF if gold coast dont stuff him up

Jack Lukosius is the player i would love Richmond to target post Dusty

I think you are way under-rating Ben King due to his poor from so far this season off an ACL. Lukosius is a very good player, but he is a square peg player - you have to find the exact right role and right opponent for him. King you don't have to shuffle anything, he just goes straight in as a key forward. He was good enough to average around 2.5 goals + goal assists in his 3rd season before doing his knee, and in a weak team.

King's career to date is a bit inconclusive and even barring the knee he is probably not tracking as well as Tom Lynch to the same point of his career. Lynch is the cream for aerial key forwards though. To me the potential looks to be there with King. He should imporve as this season progresses and next year we can really start to judge him.

Lukosius is showing himself to be a great goal assist exponent. But he is a bit of an uncontested beast at this stage, so is not going to fulfil the sort of key forward role we would normally want.

Interesting pair to track. But at this stage I would back King to be a more seamless fit for us in future years.

 

[domin8]

I think you are way under-rating Ben King due to his poor from so far this season off an ACL. Lukosius is a very good player, but he is a square peg player - you have to find the exact right role and right opponent for him. King you don't have to shuffle anything, he just goes straight in as a key forward. He was good enough to average around 2.5 goals + goal assists in his 3rd season before doing his knee, and in a weak team.

King's career to date is a bit inconclusive and even barring the knee he is probably not tracking as well as Tom Lynch to the same point of his career. Lynch is the cream for aerial key forwards though. To me the potential looks to be there with King. He should imporve as this season progresses and next year we can really start to judge him.

Lukosius is showing himself to be a great goal assist exponent. But he is a bit of an uncontested beast at this stage, so is not going to fulfil the sort of key forward role we would normally want.

Interesting pair to track. But at this stage I would back King to be a more seamless fit for us in future years.

Kings a gun just taking a bit to get back to find his touch with a midfield that struggling. Long term structure wise you take king every day of the week

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Kings a gun just taking a bit to get back to find his touch with a midfield that struggling. Long term structure wise you take king every day of the week

King in his 3rd season was certainly tracking well ahead of a player the calibre of Harold McKay in his 3rd season.

It may surprise some to know Ben King averages 2.07 goals + assists in his career + assists and McKay averages only about 10% more at 2.29. McKay is 2.5 years older than King.