I really think you are under rating Luko because of the roles he has been played in so far in his career by Stuart Dew
Play the man at CHF and leave him there and he is very much a Jeromy Cameron level player and can play multiple roles
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 6
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Play the man at CHF and leave him there and he is very much a Jeromy Cameron level player and can play multiple roles
- Apr 10, 2013
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Lukosius doesn't play with any intensity, and when it gets too hard, he turns his toes up to often IMO. He should be a stand out leader at GC, but Touk, Anderson and Rowell have easily gone past him
Is he the most skilled player of the lot YES
Does he have the potential to be the best of the lot YES
Has he done anything on a regular basis to think it will ever happen for him NO
Ben King for all his flaws, competes hard, sits under the high ball when needed, has a crack, totally different players
Is he the most skilled player of the lot YES
Does he have the potential to be the best of the lot YES
Has he done anything on a regular basis to think it will ever happen for him NO
Ben King for all his flaws, competes hard, sits under the high ball when needed, has a crack, totally different players
The guy can play, and Cameron is probably a decent comparison. Still not sure a key forward who relies almost entirely on endurance and a bit of craft to get the ball is going to be up our alley.
- Mar 1, 2010
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I am on Earth.
Carlton get some number ones but do not stay down long enough and chase value.
So the overall list is not healthy base
It is overly positive perceptions like yours that gets clubs into trouble
Ill give you a hint !!
Go look at how many 1st round picks they have had in the last 20 years under 10-12
they have been sniffing Richmonds ass for the last decade
- Mar 1, 2010
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it is not about 1st round picks, it is about top 8 picks .
Look at Cripps, he went 10 to 20
It is also about picking up the better talent in the drafts, like not over paying for Cerra etc...
They got Plowman from GWS, how well is he doing??
Many rate Walsh one of their best if not the best. Walsh is not Dusty.
The bottom line is CFC like an easy out and like to take to take short cuts, in tells in their list
Luko is 22 years old and 195cm 91 kgs
in 2 years time he will probably be 95/96kgs and be the perfect build weight and height to play CHF/FF
Reads the play & Ball as good as anybody and a beautiful mark with a sensational kick
This guy is a star and will play around 300 games if not more as he has 10 years remaining and already 80 games
I would back Jack to have a better career than Ben king and if im paying $1 mil to either then its Jack Lukosius every day
Dud sorry to ask but what Drugs are you smoking
Cerra cost pick #7 + 3rd rounder
Carlton have had 4 #1 picks and dozens of top 10 picks
Saad they paid pick #8
McGovern top 13 pick
Go do some research
- Mar 1, 2010
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100 percent, no value so they cannot win.
They had setterfield and traded him away
Muddiemoose
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- Aug 24, 2017
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This isn’t about what they did with the picks and if they worked out or not
The initial point was Carlton have done multiple list clean outs and rebuilds but with no success
You said
“Carlton have never done a rebuild, that is there problem”
That is completely wrong
- Mar 1, 2010
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Wrong, they have never done a rebuild.
Getting McGovern, Judd, Saad , etc.. is not a rebuild.
Ignore, Gold Coast assistance to Geelong, they have never done a rebuild either since they 2007 to 2011 success.
2022 can be ignored, that is like the 2016 Bulldogs premiership, BS
Do you know why Essendon is going better?? Because Adrian D extracted value, except Shiel, they got the Gold Coast guy, Setterfield and others, traded out Saad, very smart and chased talent in draft. Hobbs is not playing and they are still up. It is called accumulating young talent the right way
- Apr 10, 2013
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sensational field kick yes, actually cost GC the win missing easy set shots when they were well on top.
Granted, i wouldn't say no if he wanted to come to us.
Muddiemoose
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- Aug 24, 2017
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I’ve read anything so confidently incorrect in my entire life
Mark Robinson: Carlton has officially started rebuilding, but what now for Mick Malthouse?
What does rebuild mean for Mick?
www.foxsports.com.au
Cook claims Carlton's rebuild is not yet complete
The Blues' CEO has told the club's fans that there is still work to be done at Princes Park.
www.zerohanger.com
These links provide statements for from the media but from representatives of Carlton’s football club
You can argue the effectiveness of the rebuilds but to say that they haven’t is completely false, at this point post claiming otherwise will be taken as trolling and will simply be deleted
- Mar 1, 2010
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Quoting Mark Robinson will not help any argument.I’ve read anything so confidently incorrect in my entire life
Mark Robinson: Carlton has officially started rebuilding, but what now for Mick Malthouse?
What does rebuild mean for Mick?
Cook claims Carlton's rebuild is not yet complete
The Blues' CEO has told the club's fans that there is still work to be done at Princes Park.www.zerohanger.com
These links provide statements for from the media but from representatives of Carlton’s football club
You can argue the effectiveness of the rebuilds but to say that they haven’t is completely false, at this point post claiming otherwise will be taken as trolling and will simply be deleted
When it suits CFC will say a rebuild, that is called PR but when Ed Curnow and others are still running around it is not a rebuild.
Look at the depth of Essendon compared to CFC. Nick Cox is not even playing as are others, that reflects teh accumulation of young talent including previous high draft picks.
Thinking of a philosophy or strategy for building a list, and the numbers in certain positions that you want to have.
Here is a split of what I think is right, for maintaining a strong best 22 and VFL team.
Total 44
Key Position Defender: 6
Ruck: 4
Key Position Forward: 6
Small Forward: 3
Flanker Defender: 5
Flanker Forward: 3
Midfielder: 17
- I maintain that a strong midfield will make average forward and back lines look better, and bonus if you also have strong forward and back lines.
- A surplus of midfielders and key positions means you field basically two full-strength teams (AFL and VFL), have strong depth, and at worst you likely have some fringe players that are getting 25-30 touches at VFL and can't break in, so you get good trade value to then get someone you need or draft for a position you're light on really good players for.
- Utility players are rarely great and rarely come good at AFL level. A kid who can't find a lot of the ball at junior level likely doesn't get good at it later, you can't really teach it. So why draft so many? Even in the 35-40+ draft range you can still get kids who were able to find the ball at junior level.
- Why take the "athlete" who runs all day but isn't a natural footballer? A kid getting it 25-30 times at junior level must have a good running capacity too, given the running required to get that much ball. Draft the kid who can find it, not the athlete.
- If your late draft pick doesn't have a slider or a kid who has shown overly much, look to the 19-24yo range at the lower level. If someone is performing consisently there (Lambert), chances are they can play.
Obviously there are a myriad of other factors but making a strong midfield with lots of guys who can find the ball, and lots of good + developing key talls, will give you a solid foundation to being a pretty good football side, I feel.
With that said here are our ratios (why is it 43, is that the list size now?):
Key Position Defender (7) Grimes Tarrant Balta Gibcus Young Miller Nyuon
Ruck (4) Soldo Nankervis Ryan Colina
Key Position Forward (4) Riewoldt Lynch Bradtke Bauer
Small Forward (3) Rioli Castagna Clarke
Flanker Defender (9) Vlastuin Baker Rioli Brown Mansell Broad Banks Green Smith
Flanker Forward (4) Martin Bolton Cumberland (could argue he is a small) Campbell
Midfielder (12) Prestia Ross Cotchin Ralphsmith Taranto Short Hopper Dow McIntosh Graham Sonsie Pickett
Those names and number ratios are not, not good.
People might argue that Banks is a wing, fine, but I reckon he was drafted as a half back as that's where he played as a junior from memory. Mansell is a forward (not a forward's a-hole sorry) now but was drafted as a half back. We have 9 of them on the list...
12 midfielders if you don't count Ralphsmith as also sort of being a half back utility. Very few of those 12 would you put in the centre bounce either. It is very worrisome to look at.
I understand all of the names aren't necessarily great given that we've been up the pointy end for a while, but the lack of guys who know how to get the ball 30 times, the lack of pure key position talent developing, is really quite dire.
Again, despite the lack of high picks, why have we not drafted anyone who can play in the centre square more? Why, for example, is a guy like Jack Ross (drafted as a later pick, inside midfielder), playing as a wing? What is killing us despite getting Taranto and Hopper? Ball-winning midfielders.
My perfect-world ratios might not be spot on, but I reckon would give us a much better look than we have right now. I'm sure there are plenty of handy midfielders or talls that we could have right now had we not gone for guys like Mansell, Banks, Green, and outside guys like Ralphsmith and Dow (Dow was probably fair enough at the time, he was sort of a pure mid).
Anyway, hoping we can improve our recruiting moving forward.
Here is a split of what I think is right, for maintaining a strong best 22 and VFL team.
Total 44
Key Position Defender: 6
Ruck: 4
Key Position Forward: 6
Small Forward: 3
Flanker Defender: 5
Flanker Forward: 3
Midfielder: 17
- I maintain that a strong midfield will make average forward and back lines look better, and bonus if you also have strong forward and back lines.
- A surplus of midfielders and key positions means you field basically two full-strength teams (AFL and VFL), have strong depth, and at worst you likely have some fringe players that are getting 25-30 touches at VFL and can't break in, so you get good trade value to then get someone you need or draft for a position you're light on really good players for.
- Utility players are rarely great and rarely come good at AFL level. A kid who can't find a lot of the ball at junior level likely doesn't get good at it later, you can't really teach it. So why draft so many? Even in the 35-40+ draft range you can still get kids who were able to find the ball at junior level.
- Why take the "athlete" who runs all day but isn't a natural footballer? A kid getting it 25-30 times at junior level must have a good running capacity too, given the running required to get that much ball. Draft the kid who can find it, not the athlete.
- If your late draft pick doesn't have a slider or a kid who has shown overly much, look to the 19-24yo range at the lower level. If someone is performing consisently there (Lambert), chances are they can play.
Obviously there are a myriad of other factors but making a strong midfield with lots of guys who can find the ball, and lots of good + developing key talls, will give you a solid foundation to being a pretty good football side, I feel.
With that said here are our ratios (why is it 43, is that the list size now?):
Key Position Defender (7) Grimes Tarrant Balta Gibcus Young Miller Nyuon
Ruck (4) Soldo Nankervis Ryan Colina
Key Position Forward (4) Riewoldt Lynch Bradtke Bauer
Small Forward (3) Rioli Castagna Clarke
Flanker Defender (9) Vlastuin Baker Rioli Brown Mansell Broad Banks Green Smith
Flanker Forward (4) Martin Bolton Cumberland (could argue he is a small) Campbell
Midfielder (12) Prestia Ross Cotchin Ralphsmith Taranto Short Hopper Dow McIntosh Graham Sonsie Pickett
Those names and number ratios are not, not good.
People might argue that Banks is a wing, fine, but I reckon he was drafted as a half back as that's where he played as a junior from memory. Mansell is a forward (not a forward's a-hole sorry) now but was drafted as a half back. We have 9 of them on the list...
12 midfielders if you don't count Ralphsmith as also sort of being a half back utility. Very few of those 12 would you put in the centre bounce either. It is very worrisome to look at.
I understand all of the names aren't necessarily great given that we've been up the pointy end for a while, but the lack of guys who know how to get the ball 30 times, the lack of pure key position talent developing, is really quite dire.
Again, despite the lack of high picks, why have we not drafted anyone who can play in the centre square more? Why, for example, is a guy like Jack Ross (drafted as a later pick, inside midfielder), playing as a wing? What is killing us despite getting Taranto and Hopper? Ball-winning midfielders.
My perfect-world ratios might not be spot on, but I reckon would give us a much better look than we have right now. I'm sure there are plenty of handy midfielders or talls that we could have right now had we not gone for guys like Mansell, Banks, Green, and outside guys like Ralphsmith and Dow (Dow was probably fair enough at the time, he was sort of a pure mid).
Anyway, hoping we can improve our recruiting moving forward.
Great analysis. Appreciate the work and thought you’ve put into it.
A few points; we have 43 as the 44 list spots are 36-38 primary list, 4-6 rookie list and 2 Cat-B’s. We only have Colina as a Cat-B which is why our list size is 43.
I think one fallacy over the most recent successful period is around possession stats. Richmond since 2017 has been one of the bottom few sides for total disposals. A microcosm of this was Cotchin, going from 24 per game + from 2011-2016 to around 20ish from 2017 to now. Impact of possessions is what we’ve historically valued not getting the ball itself.
That seems to be changing in terms of the way the game is played with the stand rule and the 6-6-6. Contested ball is vitally important but it is easier to maintain possession these days and instead of forward half turnover generating scores it’s more back half scores.
This flows through to recruiting where guys like Thomson Dow are great in and under but not great transition mids.
The other thing is that players can play multiple positions. Take Martin, Bolton and Baker. You’ve put them in the flanker category (which I agree with) but can also play through the midfield.
I think that this is an important point when you come to Ross who will always be the poster boy for the difficult decisions when developing young players in an era of success.
If you were to rank the players you’d like to play inside mid Ross would probably be 9-10. So if he wants to play AFL football, it’s unlikely going to be his preferred position. So you either sit and wait for something to go your way (Dow is seemingly in this position) or you expand your game to play other positions (Ross). I’m not sure there’s ever the perfect answer, but it is a conundrum.
Hopefully that doesn’t all come across as solely negative because what you have presented was well thought out and articulated. At the very least generate some interesting discussion.
- Apr 30, 2016
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I can see you've put a lot of effort into your analysis. But you sir are a fraud!!!! For everyone at Punt Rd knows you need 25 HBF's and merely 3 KPF (preferably 2 in either the geriatric or injury prone category and the other one overlooked by 150 picks so realistically Buckley's chance of making it). I already know this years recruits will be Charlie Naish, a scrawny useless mid who can't find the pill to replace RCD & most probably Dow and 3 x 172cm- 180cm oompa loompa flankers). Mate will Ruck then trudge down to the square and kick 6 each week so we have no need for anyone over 195cm's ever again!!!!
- Feb 14, 2014
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Who decides then when a club is in a rebuild? You have to tell us that at the very least
Want Himmelberg.
He is at Full back
He is at Full Foward
He is in the center
He is in the Ruck
And people here dont think he is worth $700k x 5 years FMD
He is at Full Foward
He is in the center
He is in the Ruck
And people here dont think he is worth $700k x 5 years FMD
Match winning speccies and game saving spoils. Just took a 1 hander on the goal line on Harris Andrews.
Get him in.
Yeah quite happy to be one of them.
Here’s my issue with Himmelberg, to me he seems the jack-of-all trades master of none type.
Will pop up for a great moment here or there (versus Hawks the obvious examples) and the great game every so often; but on the whole, I don’t think he’s shown the consistency to be a high end second KPF or second KPD.
I think his best position is as a third tall KPP (either end, but probably forward) that can plug and fill holes when required. He himself may be worth a five year, $750,000 contract but I don’t think his best position is not worth that.
He's not a star but he'd improve our team. Big blokes that can get up the ground and take contested marks are gold these days. One of the most versatile players in the league.
he only kicked 1 goals today bit had 20 disposals, 8 score involvements, 2 goals assists, 2 contested marks and 3 clearances.
We could use that. Even better it wouldn't cost a pick.
- Jan 18, 2016
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Drop Grimes this week
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