List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 7

[Lore]

Hello Tiger fans!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

tugga you may like to sticky or merge this post, move it to the start of the thread (so the sticky post doesn't rotate if a post is deleted before it), or copy it to your draft thread.

 

[Coach_Required]

Possibly. Won't be the end of the world if he does leave.

Agree 100%

Same with Baker, happy to keep them both but if they want to be traded then so be it. We would get more picks and increase our chances of moving up the draft order with the father sons and academy picks/trading.

 

[tigerfan1961]

As much as I love Vlastuin I think if the season pans out how we think it will and we finish bottom 4/6 I think we should look at trading him out for a good pick. Someone like the Dees would probably cough up their 1st pick for him. He's 30 in a couple months and we aren't doing anything in the next few years. We need to pump games into Brown and Trezise.

Prestia too, although he wouldn't have much currency.

Laughable suggestion, just ridiculous

 

[tiger_tough]

Laughable suggestion, just ridiculous

Only because he's your favorite, but objectively it makes sense.

Brown and Trezise are the next generation and Vlatuin is one of the only 30+ players that we have depth of position in and that has quality trade currency.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Even with free-agents, there’s no way we’d be making 9-11 list changes. List management is as much about making sure list spots are available at the right time.

I do think there’ll be a large contingent of movers (my guess would be Prestia and Grimes retire, Hugo and Mate delisted and Graham leaves as a free agent) but not 1/4 of the list.

If Baker and Dusty request trades that’ll be a punch to roll with, but that’ll be 4-6 senior spots; which is more likely a scenario and frankly better list management.

You’d keep Pickett and Macca? What on earth for? I’d rather watch young kids give away 3-4 stupid goals each week than those two. And you’d keep BOTH MRJ and Mansell? What on earth for? Players who get the ball 3 times a game and regularly miss easy goals aren’t hard to find. Play Coulthard. Play Clarke. Play Green. Play Campbell … Campbell has kicked 3-goals in 2 games and got 13 touches in his second game….

I’m happy to keep whichever of MRJ or Mansell does best in 2024… not both.


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[THE_GUN]

Last night Jon Ralph reported that Carr & Martin have put contract talks off until the end of the season and will reassess then.

Martins legacy at punt rd is cemented, can't be improved. 300 game player, 3 x norm smith, 3 x grand final wins, BnF wins, Brownlow wins etc and all the people at the football that he has previously committed to in Peggy, Dimma, football department staff, Gale etc have all either left or are rumoured to be leaving. If Martin goes up north for an early retirement instead of finishing a one club player it won't change his legacy one iota.

What it take for us to receive band 1 compensation if Martin does depart as free agent, would 2 years x 900k do the trick?

You must be smoking some really good stuff mate

33 year old getting paid $900k and getting Richmond a band 1 compensation ?
They will burn down AFL house

Would be extremely lucky to get a 2nd rounder

 

[DM#4]

Last night Jon Ralph reported that Carr & Martin have put contract talks off until the end of the season and will reassess then.

Martins legacy at punt rd is cemented, can't be improved. 300 game player, 3 x norm smith, 3 x grand final wins, BnF wins, Brownlow wins etc and all the people at the football that he has previously committed to in Peggy, Dimma, football department staff, Gale etc have all either left or are rumoured to be leaving. If Martin goes up north for an early retirement instead of finishing a one club player it won't change his legacy one iota.

What it take for us to receive band 1 compensation if Martin does depart as free agent, would 2 years x 900k do the trick?

We would be doing well to get a band 1 pick for Dusty. Would more than likely be band 4 (end of second) if we are lucky.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Only because he's your favorite, but objectively it makes sense.

Brown and Trezise are the next generation and Vlatuin is one of the only 30+ players that we have depth of position in and that has quality trade currency.

Yep, he’s my favourite player but it’s hilarious that you’d trade him out after he’s absolutely blitzed the last two weeks. If Grimes pulls the pin, and Broad heads back to WA, as I believe he will, we’d be right royally screwed if we traded Nick. Just a stupid suggestion imo, no offence intended Mate

 

[tiger_tough]

Yep, he’s my favourite player but it’s hilarious that you’d trade him out after he’s absolutely blitzed the last two weeks. If Grimes pulls the pin, and Biroad heads back to WA, we’d be right royally screwed if we traded Nick. Just a stupid suggestion imo, no offence intended Mate

I get it. But Brown and Trezise are both strong interceptors and we aren't contending in the 3 decent years Nick has left. Time to make hay while the sun shines.

 

[Bojangles17]

We are in deep s**t.
We now need to think about recruiting a key back and Key forward.

Not sure gibcus role was that significant right now , brown or Bauer both I’d like to throw the opportunity and have high hopes they’ll do very well with it ,,,mid season draft mutaz in VFL could be a starter , has some great qualities

 

[Bojangles17]

I get it. But Brown and Trezise are both strong interceptors and we aren't contending in the 3 decent years Nick has left. Time to make hay while the sun shines.

It never helps culling experienced hands like that , we ll lose enough without silly moves . Both tresize and brown will learn alot more with the likes of vlas alongside than say Tyler young , it’s called fast track

 

[panatha1908]

You must be smoking some really good stuff mate

33 year old getting paid $900k and getting Richmond a band 1 compensation ?
They will burn down AFL house

Would be extremely lucky to get a 2nd rounder

Dusty himself though could ask gold coast to trade, as ccj asked north for a fair trade in return for our support for him. And that probably ties in with gold coast academy picks. But prob around pick 10 I reckon?

 

[beema limapep]

Don’t think he’s a first rounder either.

I reckon he's a late first rounder, probably similar to the Lachie Shultz deal which was a future first rounder (approx 14-18) and pick 34.

Baker is worth more than the following recent trades:

Coleman Jones was about pick 19. So was Jack Higgins IIRC

Soldo was future 2nd (approx 22-26) and change.

Ratagoleau was for pick 25 and change.

 

[beema limapep]

Don't care about getting canned for this but I'm getting kind of sick of Bolton continuing to under deliver to his talent level and take lazy shots and misses on goal and field kicks that he should be nailing for his hype.

He's flashy but he's flakey and inconsistent.

Would happily trade for a good deal.

I'd trade Bolton for JUH and even throw in a late first.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Last night Jon Ralph reported that Carr & Martin have put contract talks off until the end of the season and will reassess then.

Martins legacy at punt rd is cemented, can't be improved. 300 game player, 3 x norm smith, 3 x grand final wins, BnF wins, Brownlow wins etc and all the people at the football that he has previously committed to in Peggy, Dimma, football department staff, Gale etc have all either left or are rumoured to be leaving. If Martin goes up north for an early retirement instead of finishing a one club player it won't change his legacy one iota.

What it take for us to receive band 1 compensation if Martin does depart as free agent, would 2 years x 900k do the trick?

Jon Ralph reported a month ago he was likely to resign before Round 1.

But let’s face it. He’s gone. There’ll be half a dozen clubs ‘in the window’ who will be after him. He’s got nothing left to achieve at Richmond given it’s highly unlikely he’ll have a chance at a fourth NS in yellow and black.

To be honest I won’t be overly shattered - so long as he plays his 300th in Tiger colors I can move on after what he gave to this club.


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[Profop]

Dusty himself though could ask gold coast to trade, as ccj asked north for a fair trade in return for our support for him. And that probably ties in with gold coast academy picks. But prob around pick 10 I reckon?

CCJ wasn’t a free agent. North had to trade for him

Only way a team trades for Dusty is if they’ve had someone leave in free agency and they don’t want to dilute their return

No chance of a first round pick for him either way

 

[panatha1908]

We have 3 first 2 rounds picks so that is 3 players retiring, and then anyone else leaving we can use that draft pick to replace them, maybe package some 3rd rounds together for another 2nd round pick, so we can only have 4 retirements/ delistings really?

 

[David3030]

I think Mutaz has been pretty close to being listed in any event, so if he keeps improving and with his familiarity with our systems and players, it could be a bit of a lay down misere to take him mid season. He looks a bit more competitively driven than some of the other Africans we have seen.

Unless I am sadly mistaken, there is no mid season draft in 2024. Therefore, Mutaz is going to play VFL all season and can’t be elevated to the AFL list.

 

[RockJobster0312]

You’d keep Pickett and Macca? What on earth for? I’d rather watch young kids give away 3-4 stupid goals each week than those two. And you’d keep BOTH MRJ and Mansell? What on earth for? Players who get the ball 3 times a game and regularly miss easy goals aren’t hard to find. Play Coulthard. Play Clarke. Play Green. Play Campbell … Campbell has kicked 3-goals in 2 games and got 13 touches in his second game….

I’m happy to keep whichever of MRJ or Mansell does best in 2024… not both.


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It’s about strategic list management, and ensuring your giving yourself the best opportunity to bring the best players onto your list.

Also the four players you mentioned in the quoted post, should they stay on the list past this season, doesn’t stop players already on the list from getting games. Players play well enough at VFL level they should get AFL opportunities.

Every player that you delist or trade for picks has to be replaced in that year due to minimum list requirements.

There are three primary ways to do this; trades, free agency (incl. delisted free agents) and drafting (including SSP).

If the club are going to bring in 4+ players via trades or free agency that’s a different equation, but we can’t bank in that occurring. But to a degree the point still remains as to get those players you’re either diluting your own draft picks (free agency compensation) or trading away draft capital.

If we have nine list spots available as you suggest, a significant amount of those picks will fall at the back end of the draft. Inevitably, those players will be the players that are least likely to make it; let alone be able to provide the team something greater than the players you mentioned in the short term, and they get automatic two year contracts.

That means next season you might have to delist three players you’d rather keep (to adhere to the AFLs requirement of at least three senior list changes per season); because of the cull the year before.

It’s why HRS wasn’t delisted this year I suspect. If we had a FRP in the 2023 draft, he likely would have been delisted. But as we didn’t, if we did have the additional open list spot, that pick would have fallen at the far end of the draft. Is that player likely to have a better chance of making it than HRS? Unlikely. But he gets an automatic two year contract and likely clogs the list for that period of time.

This upcoming draft our hand is likely to be better, so instead of pick 61 in a thin draft which would have been around what we would have had if we had delisted HRS, it will be a higher pick.

What you’re suggesting would be akin to that on steroids.

Instead of the cull of nine players in one year (effectively 12 with the additional three next season) as you suggest, it would be far more sensible to do it over two seasons.

And if it were to be pointed out that ‘anyone would be better than that group of players’ (despite being in my view incorrect) I’d point out that every player you mentioned other than KMac was either a pick past 45; an SSP or an MSD selection; I.e. not from the pointy end of a National Draft.

 

[RockJobster0312]

Unless I am sadly mistaken, there is no mid season draft in 2024. Therefore, Mutaz is going to play VFL all season and can’t be elevated to the AFL list.

I think there still is an MSD period in 2024, but the mid-season trade period won’t be introduced. But happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Daka]

I don't agree wth the suggestion some people have of trading Vlastuin you can't cut too deep or you will become North Melbourne do you want to be uncompetitive 8-10 years? you have to have balance of experience & new recruits/experience/depth players/high-end talent.

 

[Bojangles17]

I don't agree wth the suggestion some people have of trading Vlastuin you can't cut too deep or you will become North Melbourne do you want to be uncompetitive 8-10 years? you have to have balance of experience & new recruits/experience/depth players/high-end talent.

It won’t happen as I see enough experience departing without getting silly

 

[panatha1908]

It won’t happen as I see enough experience departing without getting silly

I feel like it's up to the players. If vlastuin said I want to go gold coast to have a crack at a premiership and surf we wouldn't deny him, but we wouldn't push him out the door either. I think wr would do the right thing by the player If they wanted a change of scenery, and a fair pick back means a draft pick may, or mah not, replace that player. So on my books that's players that can make a difference for other clubs like bolton, baker, vlastuin, Martin? But the boys may want to finish their career with us, or may want to go home, or may want a crack at a premiership. All good either way, happy to keep them, if they go the draft pick will be decent.

 

[Noidnadroj]

It’s about strategic list management, and ensuring your giving yourself the best opportunity to bring the best players onto your list.

Also the four players you mentioned in the quoted post, should they stay on the list past this season, doesn’t stop players already on the list from getting games. Players play well enough at VFL level they should get AFL opportunities.

Every player that you delist or trade for picks has to be replaced in that year due to minimum list requirements.

There are three primary ways to do this; trades, free agency (incl. delisted free agents) and drafting (including SSP).

If the club are going to bring in 4+ players via trades or free agency that’s a different equation, but we can’t bank in that occurring. But to a degree the point still remains as to get those players you’re either diluting your own draft picks (free agency compensation) or trading away draft capital.

If we have nine list spots available as you suggest, a significant amount of those picks will fall at the back end of the draft. Inevitably, those players will be the players that are least likely to make it; let alone be able to provide the team something greater than the players you mentioned in the short term, and they get automatic two year contracts.

That means next season you might have to delist three players you’d rather keep (to adhere to the AFLs requirement of at least three senior list changes per season); because of the cull the year before.

It’s why HRS wasn’t delisted this year I suspect. If we had a FRP in the 2023 draft, he likely would have been delisted. But as we didn’t, if we did have the additional open list spot, that pick would have fallen at the far end of the draft. Is that player likely to have a better chance of making it than HRS? Unlikely. But he gets an automatic two year contract and likely clogs the list for that period of time.

This upcoming draft our hand is likely to be better, so instead of pick 61 in a thin draft which would have been around what we would have had if we had delisted HRS, it will be a higher pick.

What you’re suggesting would be akin to that on steroids.

Instead of the cull of nine players in one year (effectively 12 with the additional three next season) as you suggest, it would be far more sensible to do it over two seasons.

And if it were to be pointed out that ‘anyone would be better than that group of players’ (despite being in my view incorrect) I’d point out that every player you mentioned other than KMac was either a pick past 45; an SSP or an MSD selection; I.e. not from the pointy end of a National Draft.

I know how it works. I ‘am’ suggesting we take 6-7 kids in the draft - 4-5 in the top-30 then another couple of speculative late ones. Then maybe a free agent. And then a rookie elevation and leave a spot for a preseason pick and then a mid-season pick.

The money we save on a 3 x draftees instead of Pickett, Macca and Broad for example ($800k per season) we front end TT, Hopper etc… and reduce our exposure and build a war chest.

I’m only suggesting we move on 30yo+ C and B graders. And keep Baker and Dusty … only trade if they request it.


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[lizard man]

Maybe ash Johnson should be on our radar?

 

[Frank Grimes]

As much as I love Vlastuin I think if the season pans out how we think it will and we finish bottom 4/6 I think we should look at trading him out for a good pick. Someone like the Dees would probably cough up their 1st pick for him. He's 30 in a couple months and we aren't doing anything in the next few years. We need to pump games into Brown and Trezise.

Prestia too, although he wouldn't have much currency.

I don't think we'd get a first round pick for Vlastuin. Maybe a mid 2nd round. I'm in the re-signing him boat.

I think Dusty, Baker and possibly Graham will look at a trade or leave to another club during the pre-season. Losing Vlastuin as well will be losing too much experience.

We don't want to end up like Melbourne in the late 00's where they got rid of too experience and compromised the development of the young players coming in (young players don't learn much from getting belted 10+ goals every game seasons in end).

I would like to see Dusty sign on, but I think he'll go the Gold Coast. I think the contract in front of him would be 700-800k a year over 3 years. I don't think that'll net a first rnd compo, but probably end of first rnd. We may end up matching and force a trade if we think we can get something better trade wise.

Baker should land us a first rnd pick and both Freo and West Coast should have draft pick capital to make the trade.

I think Graham is worth a late first or early 2nd pick if he asks for a trade too.

Based on this scenario it would mean we would have our first round pick (pick 5 based on our finishing position last year), mid first round pick for the Baker trade, end of 1st rnd compo for Dusty, early 2nd for Graham, our early 2nd pick, Freo early 2nd pick, our early 3rd rnd pick, West Coast early 3rd rnd pick, Freo early 3rd rnd pick.

If that is somewhat we end up with, it will give us a massive amount of leverage to trade with other clubs looking for points and trade up into the draft.