Training Report 10-01-2006

[rayven]

Definitely!!

Personally I can't understand this call to move Rutten up forward.

We have been dying for a big strong FB since our inception, and we finally have one who wins All-Australian status in his first full season there.

IMO commonsense says to leave him there.

but correct me if i am wrong, but wasnt ruttens junior footy as a FF?

and natural FF's are harder to find than FB's imo.

it means taking a risk though with our structure, if it works nc will be lauded. if it fails it could be nasty, not only to us on the scoreboard but to rutten himself

 

[macca23]

but correct me if i am wrong, but wasnt ruttens junior footy as a FF?
and natural FF's are harder to find than FB's imo.

it means taking a risk though with our structure, if it works nc will be lauded. if it fails it could be nasty, not only to us on the scoreboard but to rutten himself

I thought Rutten oscillated betwen CHF and CHB as a junior, but I may well stand corrected.

However that's irrelevant IMO as footy history is studded with players who couldn't crack it at AFL level in the position they played as a junior, and have had to be re-invented in another position to become a permanent AFL player.

Rutten never even looked close to getting a permanent spot as a forward or CHB, but has been an immediate and outstanding success since moving to FB.

He's found his niche at the top level in a key position we desperately needed to fill. Why would we want to change that or put it all at risk?

 

[Stiffy_18]

but correct me if i am wrong, but wasnt ruttens junior footy as a FF?
and natural FF's are harder to find than FB's imo.

it means taking a risk though with our structure, if it works nc will be lauded. if it fails it could be nasty, not only to us on the scoreboard but to rutten himself

No you are wrong because he wasn't a FF at junir footy. He was a CHB who could play at CHF and played quite a few games at CHF.

Ken McGregor was a CHF during his junir footy years but we all know that he has struggled in that position at AFL level until recently.

 

[Cap]

I don’t think people questioned Ruttens ability as a AFL footballer,may be one person did and he was the head coach at the time so that was a bit of a problem
I will always say FB isn’t the best spot to play him, but AFC need him to play there so that’s probably where he is going to play there for a while !

I used to watch a fair few westies games (not cause I like them but some mates did), he played alot of CHF and a bit of CHB as well, is a good grab which is why the CHF is a good spot for him, AFL level probably would be a great FF but I guess we will wait and see how he goes playing wing

I guess as a forward L Jericho has won more games for Westies off his own boot than Rutten ever did - but i am not sure what that means

 

[- PC -]

Rutten never even looked close to getting a permanent spot as a forward or CHB, but has been an immediate and outstanding success since moving to FB.

3 goals with his first 3 kicks at AFL level doesnt sound like someone who didnt have immediate success

 

[- PC -]

II guess as a forward L Jericho has won more games for Westies off his own boot than Rutten ever did - but i am not sure what that means

Jericho has not stepped up and played as many games of AFL as Rutten

 

[macca23]

3 goals with his first 3 kicks at AFL level doesnt sound like someone who didnt have immediate success

His only 3 kicks for that game in fact. And in the same game was exposed for his lack of pace and agility as the defence ran off him repeatedly as the game wore on. I'm pretty sure that was the Freo game in Perth that we lost by less than a goal, and their run from defence was a deciding factor. Again off memory, Rutten got dragged around 3 quarter time. I remember thinking at the time how his good work in getting those 3 goals had been more than wiped out by his lack of agility and pace, and the costly goals Freo got from easy clearances from defence, with Rutten the main culprit.

He then had a nothing game the next week and got dropped for nearly a year before re-appearing in defence where he did and does look an AFL footballer.

My bet is that the AFC will have the good sense to leave the best FB in the comp in that position, rather than try to turn him into an average forward.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

His only 3 kicks for that game in fact. And in the same game was exposed for his lack of pace and agility as the defence ran off him repeatedly as the game wore on. I'm pretty sure that was the Freo game in Perth that we lost by less than a goal, and their run from defence was a deciding factor. Again off memory, Rutten got dragged around 3 quarter time. I remember thinking at the time how his good work in getting those 3 goals had been more than wiped out by his lack of agility and pace, and the costly goals Freo got from easy clearances from defence, with Rutten the main culprit.

He then had a nothing game the next week and got dropped for nearly a year before re-appearing in defence where he did and does look an AFL footballer.

My bet is that the AFC will have the good sense to leave the best FB in the comp in that position, rather than try to turn him into an average forward.

Here we go again..............................lack of pace???

Can I suggest this age old issue be resolved ...........if he was as slow as you have suggested then I can assure you there is no way he could survive as a FB.

In fact he would have a better chance as a FF where the repercussions of his affliction would be less felt.

Surely a leading FF is more of an issue to a player who supposedly is slow (which I have never necer subscribed to) than a defender running off.

Maybe the answer in that situation was lack of experience rather than pace.....it's not the first time a young ineperienced player has been exploited by an experienced opponent

 

[The Crows Truth]

No you are wrong because he wasn't a FF at junir footy. He was a CHB who could play at CHF and played quite a few games at CHF.

Ken McGregor was a CHF during his junir footy years but we all know that he has struggled in that position at AFL level until recently.

Wasnt he CHF when he captianed SA at the Carnival?

 

[macca23]

Here we go again..............................lack of pace???

Can I suggest this age old issue be resolved ...........if he was as slow as you have suggested then I can assure you there is no way he could survive as a FB.

In fact he would have a better chance as a FF where the repercussions of his affliction would be less felt.

Surely a leading FF is more of an issue to a player who supposedly is slow (which I have never necer subscribed to) than a defender running off.

Maybe the answer in that situation was lack of experience rather than pace.....it's not the first time a young ineperienced player has been exploited by an experienced opponent

You also have conveniently overlooked the word agility, WW.

Turn back time and read the threads of a couple of years ago, which is the period I'm referring to. Rutten has worked very hard on both aspects since then and certainly has enough to play FB, where you run straight ahead far more often than as a FF.

I sstill maintain that at AFL level he will be an ordinary forward, whereas he currently is an AA FB.

IMO to move him from there makes no sense.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You also have conveniently overlooked the word agility, WW.

Turn back time and read the threads of a couple of years ago, which is the period I'm referring to. Rutten has worked very hard on both aspects since then and certainly has enough to play FB, where you run straight ahead far more often than as a FF.

I sstill maintain that at AFL level he will be an ordinary forward, whereas he currently is an AA FB.

IMO to move him from there makes no sense.

Didn't overlook agility - yes that has, and is an issue - the pace issue IMO "hugely" overcooked.

Now the hilited section Macca has me confused.......assuming the FB is on his man - that being the FF, how is it that the FB is running in a straight line and the FF is not.............That has me confused

 

[rayven]

No you are wrong because he wasn't a FF at junir footy. He was a CHB who could play at CHF and played quite a few games at CHF.

Ken McGregor was a CHF during his junir footy years but we all know that he has struggled in that position at AFL level until recently.

well i was under the impression from what rutten said himself a number of occassions in the media

he was asked a couple of times towards the end of the season where he prefered to play, he stated where ever the coach puts me but i would like to play forward as i played my junior footy there

 

[rayven]

Here we go again..............................lack of pace???

Can I suggest this age old issue be resolved ...........if he was as slow as you have suggested then I can assure you there is no way he could survive as a FB.

In fact he would have a better chance as a FF where the repercussions of his affliction would be less felt.

Surely a leading FF is more of an issue to a player who supposedly is slow (which I have never necer subscribed to) than a defender running off.

Maybe the answer in that situation was lack of experience rather than pace.....it's not the first time a young ineperienced player has been exploited by an experienced opponent

i saw rutten only once last year live and the way he played was different to other fb's i have seen play for us

he tended in this game from what i saw to body his opponant from the word go, thus using his body strenth to hamper the lead

i saw it occasionaly from my arm chair but i cant say if this was his stratergy all the time

i have seen hart and smart play in front of there opponant and try and cut of the lead that way, bringing there pace into it

 

[WaynesWorld19]

i saw rutten only once last year live and the way he played was different to other fb's i have seen play for us

he tended in this game from what i saw to body his opponant from the word go, thus using his body strenth to hamper the lead

i saw it occasionaly from my arm chair but i cant say if this was his stratergy all the time

i have seen hart and smart play in front of there opponant and try and cut of the lead that way, bringing there pace into it

Good observation - Rutten has always been a smart player and I'm sure he's learning all the time

 

[macca69]

How have Bernie Vince and Jason Porplyzia looked at training?

 

[macca23]

How have Bernie Vince and Jason Porplyzia looked at training?

Bernie Vince is a good prospect. He did well in his start to SANFL at the end of last year, and fits like a hand in a glove amongst the other AFL boys at pre-season. He was very impressive on the day that I reported on training.

My regular trackwatchers tell me that Porplyzia has improved by the proverbial mile since he was on the rookie list, and will be pushing for a spot as well. Very versatile and can play back, in the middlle and on a HFF.

The biggest problem for both is just whose spot can they get. Injury to regulars will be their best chance in the first place.

 

[outback jack]

Think NC will have high hopes for Jericho/Vince/Porplyzia and maybe reilly, before knights and VB and its probably why we drafted some older talent, as midfield wise we have a bit of a hole in that 19-21 age grp. Add to that bode, who should atleast be in the 22 and the competition will be high for spots. No stars yet to replace the aging ones though!

 

[The Crows Truth]

Think NC will have high hopes for Jericho/Vince/Porplyzia and maybe reilly, before knights and VB and its probably why we drafted some older talent, as midfield wise we have a bit of a hole in that 19-21 age grp. Add to that bode, who should atleast be in the 22 and the competition will be high for spots. No stars yet to replace the aging ones though!

Scotty Thompson is on the way to beung a star. Renmeber Goodwin and Edwards were hardly house names at early 20s anyway

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Didn't overlook agility - yes that has, and is an issue - the pace issue IMO "hugely" overcooked.

Now the hilited section Macca has me confused.......assuming the FB is on his man - that being the FF, how is it that the FB is running in a straight line and the FF is not.............That has me confused

Hey Macca - still waiting for the answer to this puzzle

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Think NC will have high hopes for Jericho/Vince/Porplyzia and maybe reilly, before knights and VB and its probably why we drafted some older talent, as midfield wise we have a bit of a hole in that 19-21 age grp. Add to that bode, who should atleast be in the 22 and the competition will be high for spots. No stars yet to replace the aging ones though!

And why exactly does he rate that high my friend?

 

[macca69]

Bernie Vince is a good prospect. He did well in his start to SANFL at the end of last year, and fits like a hand in a glove amongst the other AFL boys at pre-season. He was very impressive on the day that I reported on training.

My regular trackwatchers tell me that Porplyzia has improved by the proverbial mile since he was on the rookie list, and will be pushing for a spot as well. Very versatile and can play back, in the middlle and on a HFF.

The biggest problem for both is just whose spot can they get. Injury to regulars will be their best chance in the first place.

thanx for that, they sound quite dood prospects, who do you think will play more games out of the 2? Sounds liike Porplyzia could get a spot on a HFF as that position isn't really claimed by anyone ATM. Obviously it will depend on NAB cup form, but correct me if I am wrong, but you have 5 regular starting forwards (Edwards, Welsh, Perrie, McGregor and Hentschel), with Thompson often the other HF, but with Thompson stepping up to midfield, then wouldn't there be a vacent spot on the HFF. Reilly is a possibility, but to me he doesn't seem like a natural forward. If Porplyzia gets a HFF here is how Adelaide could line-up.

Torney Rutten Bassett
Johncock Bock McLoed
Mattner Goodwin Burton
Porplyzia McGregor Perrie
Edwards Welsh Hentschel
Biglands Riccuito Thompson

Clarke/Meeson, Hart, Reilly, Knights/Shirley/Van Berlo

I hope that makes sense, and that I haven't missed anyone.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Torney Rutten Bassett
Johncock Bock McLoed
Mattner Goodwin Burton
Porplyzia McGregor Perrie
Edwards Welsh Hentschel
Biglands Riccuito Thompson

Clarke/Meeson, Hart, Reilly, Knights/Shirley/Van Berlo

I hope that makes sense, and that I haven't missed anyone.

Maric.

Big Ivan has been training the house down and is more in front of Mees. so Im told.

 

[macca23]

Hey Macca - still waiting for the answer to this puzzle

WW - it's only a puzzle to you.

The difference between playing FB where you only have to bustle your opponent and spoil them from getting the ball, and playing FF where you actually have to have an edge in pace and agility to get clear and get the ball instead of spoiling is masssive.

When the ball hits the ground the backman has two options that the forward rarely gets, run straight forward or knock the ball out of bounds.

The reason that I didn't answer WW was that we are talking about the A B C of football, the most simple of basics, and that's not worthy of debate. It's just the way it is - you need far greater agility and speed to be a good forward than a good backman.

 

[macca23]

thanx for that, they sound quite dood prospects, who do you think will play more games out of the 2? Sounds liike Porplyzia could get a spot on a HFF as that position isn't really claimed by anyone ATM. Obviously it will depend on NAB cup form, but correct me if I am wrong, but you have 5 regular starting forwards (Edwards, Welsh, Perrie, McGregor and Hentschel), with Thompson often the other HF, but with Thompson stepping up to midfield, then wouldn't there be a vacent spot on the HFF. Reilly is a possibility, but to me he doesn't seem like a natural forward. If Porplyzia gets a HFF here is how Adelaide could line-up.

Torney Rutten Bassett
Johncock Bock McLoed
Mattner Goodwin Burton
Porplyzia McGregor Perrie
Edwards Welsh Hentschel
Biglands Riccuito Thompson

Clarke/Meeson, Hart, Reilly, Knights/Shirley/Van Berlo

I hope that makes sense, and that I haven't missed anyone.

You're pretty well around the mark with that side if all are available. as stated elsewhere, there's a good duel between Meesen and Maric for any rucking opportunity that comes along as both boys will be pushing for it this year.

NAB Cup form will be critical for that other HFF as I think that you're right about the other 5 forwards. Because of age and experience Porplyzia would be marginally ahead of Vince, but both face strong challenges from Knights, Bode and the resting on-ballers as well for that spot.

The good thing for Adelaide is that we have built up a bit of genuine depth with player like Meesen, Maric, Knights, Van Berlo, Vince and Porplyzia all pressing for spots this year.

That kid Richard Douglas from this year's draft is a little ripper, but will need to put on weight over this year, and when he does, will be another good on-baller for us.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

WW - it's only a puzzle to you.

The difference between playing FB where you only have to bustle your opponent and spoil them from getting the ball, and playing FF where you actually have to have an edge in pace and agility to get clear and get the ball instead of spoiling is masssive.

When the ball hits the ground the backman has two options that the forward rarely gets, run straight forward or knock the ball out of bounds.

The reason that I didn't answer WW was that we are talking about the A B C of football, the most simple of basics, and that's not worthy of debate. It's just the way it is - you need far greater agility and speed to be a good forward than a good backman.

I'm still confused Macca

Your talking 2 different gamestyles - one for the high ball coming in (neither player needs speed/agility), and the leading FF where the FB has to in fact be quicker than the FF to spoil because the FF has the element of surprise and timing of the lead on his side.

So sorry I cannot agree at all with your argument.