VFL VFL 2024 - Geelong & the greater league

[Pure_Ownage]

That's probably a question for Shaun and the match committee. But you're comparing him to TK who was also recruited as a forward but immediately pushed into the midfield and stayed there under the same coach. Don't you think it's reasonable to suggest Mannagh isn't the same level of player?

Im not comparing to TK as a specific player (it was more around our mature age drafting and trade strategy).

But since you asked TK in 2017 was close to the best mid aged player in the WAFL.
He took a few games to find his feet and then was a gun in the afl.

Mannagh in 2022-2023 was close to the best mid aged player in the vfl.
He played 2 games (1.5 really as he was the sub in the other), played quite well in the second game he played and has had no more chances since.

I dont think its unreasonable to suggest that after a dozen games or so he could become a clear first choice player (the way TK did) if hes given the opportunity and he hasnt had that yet.

 

[STPer18]

I think you have misunderstood my position.
Ive highlighted the other poster i bolder because it better represents my view.
The two things arent mutually exclusive.
Mannagh might well love the club as the training environment, family friendly structures etc are great.
But if he doesnt get picked off his current form then its clear the coaches view him as backup only, which will massively hurt any size of contract offer post 25.
A younger player can take that risk and back themselves in because they might earn a bigger deal in a year or two.
Mannagh at 27 cant afford that.
If another club later this year offers him a 2-3 year deal and a more likely route to best 22 he simply has to take it. Its a business decision.
He can like the club and still have to do that.

You obviously think he wont get offered that by another team. I think its very likely he will and will move.

We will see who is right and wrong in about 3 months.

I think you quoted the wrong person, I was just saying the VFL guys had a pep in their step with a few guys getting promoted. Mannagh had a blinder and surely plays against the Hawks.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I feel this assessment is based on how you would feel in his situation than on anything that has come from him.
Take this interview from post today’s game. He comes across as someone who is very happy with where he is at in his life right now and he is genuinely happy for his teammates getting an opportunity in the AFL at the moment. You may be proven right by years end if nothing changes but I’m certain he will have his chance again and may even be as early as this week.

I have stated I haven't liked how we handled Mannagh so far, but there is still time for him to break into the team.

But I'd double down on it being a very poor effort by us as a club if we drafted a 26-year-old who finally got to the level required to have multiple clubs wanting him, only to plonk him in the twos all year, and then when another club still wants him that we say "Nah he is contracted and staying" and we continue to let his career rot in the VFL.

The guy will be 27 next year... He ain't got time to muck around serving a multiple-year apprenticeship.

Whilst we have him contracted and the right to do so and hold him whilst under contract... I'd hope we'd be better than that and let the guy go and play AFL footy if we are not selecting him.

The guy can't do much more than he is doing.

25 touches and 2 goals a game in the VFL last year playing mid/forward.
17 touches and 3 goals a game in the VFL playing closer to goal this year.

Play him or move him on with our blessings.

I think you have misunderstood my position.
Ive highlighted the other poster i bolder because it better represents my view.
The two things arent mutually exclusive.
Mannagh might well love the club as the training environment, family friendly structures etc are great.
But if he doesnt get picked off his current form then its clear the coaches view him as backup only, which will massively hurt any size of contract offer post 25.
A younger player can take that risk and back themselves in because they might earn a bigger deal in a year or two.
Mannagh at 27 cant afford that.
If another club later this year offers him a 2-3 year deal and a more likely route to best 22 he simply has to take it. Its a business decision.
He can like the club and still have to do that.

You obviously think he wont get offered that by another team. I think its very likely he will and will move.

We will see who is right and wrong in about 3 months.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I think you quoted the wrong person, I was just saying the VFL guys had a pep in their step with a few guys getting promoted. Mannagh had a blinder and surely plays against the Hawks.

My bad sorry i did.

On the hawks bit he should play but i doubt he will.

 

[Warhorse]

Im not comparing to TK as a specific player (it was more around our mature age drafting and trade strategy).

But since you asked TK in 2017 was close to the best mid aged player in the WAFL.
He took a few games to find his feet and then was a gun in the afl.

Mannagh in 2022-2023 was close to the best mid aged player in the vfl.
He played 2 games (1.5 really as he was the sub in the other), played quite well in the second game he played and has had no more chances since.

I dont think its unreasonable to suggest that after a dozen games or so he could become a clear first choice player (the way TK did) if hes given the opportunity and he hasnt had that yet.

I could see him within the top 15 players in our team within 10 games. He is very very good.

 

[kcattatac]

His performance today would suggest exactly that.

But mannagh didn't play mid today. Played hhf all first half which is his one wood. Could feasibly play attacking wing but Dempsey has that role sewn up

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Im not comparing to TK as a specific player (it was more around our mature age drafting and trade strategy).

But since you asked TK in 2017 was close to the best mid aged player in the WAFL.
He took a few games to find his feet and then was a gun in the afl.

Mannagh in 2022-2023 was close to the best mid aged player in the vfl.
He played 2 games (1.5 really as he was the sub in the other), played quite well in the second game he played and has had no more chances since.

I dont think its unreasonable to suggest that after a dozen games or so he could become a clear first choice player (the way TK did) if hes given the opportunity and he hasnt had that yet.

Maybe I'm misremembering but I feel like TK didn't take any time to find his feet. They recruited him to be a HFF / small forward and over preseason decided to drop him straight into the middle. The same senior coach took two forwards from state league, dropped one into an already stacked midfield immediately and the other played forward when the midfield is weak. I just don't think the same coach that gave a shot to one would play favourites with the other when he needs a midfielder. It doesn't make sense. The only thing that makes sense is that the MC don't think his midfield work will translate.

 

[kcattatac]

Because he already agreed to it when he signed the contract

I get that but it begs 3 questions

1. Why draft manmagh with no intention to play him?

2. Why not pick the side on form? As on form hes in

And 3. Why tank his trade value? (Which seems stupid-i know the kelly situation is different but we took a player we knew we would never have for more than 2 years but we did everything possible to make sure we got great trade value for him..with shaun we seem to b doing the opposite).

And 4. If our midfield is as weak as we say it is why not pick the goalkicking mid who is dominating?

Its all very odd really.
But hes got a limited number of years to make $ for his family..hes not going to hang around if we arent playing him and other teams offer him more $ and gametime

I get that but it begs 3 questions

1. Why draft manmagh with no intention to play him?

2. Why not pick the side on form? As on form hes in

And 3. Why tank his trade value? (Which seems stupid-i know the kelly situation is different but we took a player we knew we would never have for more than 2 years but we did everything possible to make sure we got great trade value for him..with shaun we seem to b doing the opposite).

And 4. If our midfield is as weak as we say it is why not pick the goalkicking mid who is dominating?

Its all very odd really.
But hes got a limited number of years to make $ for his family..hes not going to hang around if we arent playing him and other teams offer him more $ and gametime.

I think we did intend on playing him but Dempsey's form is keeping him out. If he requests a trade then cats will want a decent player or a pick similar to 36 and if we don't get that he'll stay a cat

 

[BORIS332]

But mannagh didn't play mid today. Played hhf all first half which is his one wood. Could feasibly play attacking wing but Dempsey has that role sewn up

I didn’t see the game because the stream was f*cked. But if Mannagh didn’t play mid, how did he get 6 clearances in the first half?

 

[catempire]

I’ve said similar over the past 6 months why did we even bother recruiting Hardie
I’m not his biggest fan but at their age what’s the point if you don’t bring them up.
My point is someone at the club in recruiting or drafting is stubborn and just because he’s not playing now doesn’t mean he’s not playing in a month and next year onwards.
There’s a lot behind closed doors we will never know, he might be working on certain aspects of his game that even though he’s getting the ball and kicking goals he’s not ticking those boxes.
Personally if he can’t get a game in our 22 he is almost the perfect sub, energetic and gets the ball

We hoped he would be better than he actually is.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I've just watched the first half and I don't really understand all the talk of Mannagh as a midfielder. He's having a huge game but it's as a high half forward playing the same role Close and Miers play in the seniors. He hasn't attended a centre bounce.

Clearly on today's performance he's bashing the door down. But it's still tricky to squeeze all of Mannagh, Miers, Close, Stengle and Dempsey in the team. We can rejig the team but there's no way he's going to play midfield at AFL level when he's not playing there at VFL level.

 

[cats_09]

I didn’t see the game because the stream was f*cked. But if Mannagh didn’t play mid, how did he get 6 clearances in the first half?

Clearances cover more than just centre bounces

It’s more likely that his 6 clearances are from stoppages around the ground, especially in the forward half the ground

Same as how last night each of Guthrie, Humphries & Miers each had 3 clearances, but none of them attended a centre bounce

 

[Footy Smarts]

I didn’t see the game because the stream was f*cked. But if Mannagh didn’t play mid, how did he get 6 clearances in the first half?

He got at least 1 really nice forward 50 clearance and goal.

But he absolutely played as a high half forward. He played the exact same role Close or Miers does at AFL level. Pushing up to the contest at times and working hard back to goal.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I've just watched the first half and I don't really understand all the talk of Mannagh as a midfielder. He's having a huge game but it's as a high half forward playing the same role Close and Miers play in the seniors. He hasn't attended a centre bounce.

Clearly on today's performance he's bashing the door down. But it's still tricky to squeeze all of Mandy, Miers, Close, Stengle and Dempsey in the team. We can rejig the team but there's no way he's going to play midfield at AFL level when he's not playing there at VFL level.

I'm only 18 minutes in at this point but I'm with you so far. Mannagh to this point playing like Miers was early in his career, off the front of the contest to pick up a handball recieve. Even when he has found himself in congestion he moves through it to the front without contesting the ball really.

 

[Footy Smarts]

That's a really good win today. Sandringham were stacked with AFL talent including really experienced guys.

We had Parfitt, Stanley and Bews with 20+ AFL games. They had Phillipou, Jones, Membrey, Stocker, Byrnes, Paton and Cordy.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

That's a really good win today. Sandringham were stacked with AFL talent including really experienced guys.

We had Parfitt, Stanley and Bews with 20+ AFL games. They had Phillipou, Jones, Membrey, Stocker, Byrnes, Paton and Cordy.

Side note - that "we totally messed up taking Clark over Phillipou" argument seems to have gone a bit quiet

 

[CHAWKTS]

Mannagh said as much in his interview.

What a fantastic interview. I don’t think I have heard much from him…

Immediate thought is that he doesn’t look 26! Maybe because I am old but he looks much more boyish that I thought. Hopefully that means he has plenty of years left in footy!

But his demeanour as well as words were spot on. He looked genuinely pumped for Lawson (and Mitch).

Makes my desire to see him get a fair run at the AFL level even more. Hopefully starting against the Hawks!

 

[CHAWKTS]

Side note - that "we totally messed up taking Clark over Phillipou" argument and to have gone a bit quiet

Certainly feels like Clark is a better fit (for sure) and good chance will end up being a better footballer

 

[CHAWKTS]

I've just watched the first half and I don't really understand all the talk of Mannagh as a midfielder. He's having a huge game but it's as a high half forward playing the same role Close and Miers play in the seniors. He hasn't attended a centre bounce.

Clearly on today's performance he's bashing the door down. But it's still tricky to squeeze all of Mannagh, Miers, Close, Stengle and Dempsey in the team. We can rejig the team but there's no way he's going to play midfield at AFL level when he's not playing there at VFL level.

Agree on MF - it just won’t happen (yet) at AFL level. In particular with the “success” (early call!) of Stewart and Danger in the middle with the other spot being a tag or “outside” player to which we have Bowes, Atkins, Holmes in the rotation with Knevitt and Blitz able to do chop outs.

So his shot is either replacing a managed (I can see them resting close and then maybe Miers soon. I have given up predicting Dempsey being rested!) which might give him a couple of games and then maybe small ball in forward line which is not out of question if Rohan and Henry and blitz give coaches confidence in competing in the air

 

[TheMenz Gallery]

I think you have misunderstood my position.
But if he doesnt get picked off his current form then it’s clear the coaches view him as backup only, which will massively hurt any size of contract offer post 25.

I don’t believe I have misunderstood your position. Your point has been made well and often. You’re a quality poster who I enjoy reading but I feel you underestimate the value of a great culture, a winning culture that the Cats have.

Once at the Cats, players don’t tend to want to leave but in fact take unders to stay. We saw this again today with Tyson Stengle knocking back a guaranteed 1mil and 6th year on his contract. The money that would be offered to Shaun Mannagh is not going to be anywhere near the Stengle range. No club is going to offer ridiculous money for a 2 game AFL player so for the sake of an extra 10-20k a year would you uproot your family from a place you enjoy being at, where you know where you stand at the club and go to a new club, a new system to learn, a new pecking order to prove yourself in, on the off chance you may get more opportunities? Let’s not forget, the draft takes place after the trade period he would need to sign in. His new club may draft similar types which puts him further back. Not to mention the continual improvement of the young kids already on their list, an Ollie Dempsey type might pop up.
He’s better off staying here and trying to make a go of it and I’ve seen nothing from him to suggest he doesn’t feel the same.

Like you, I’m a fan of Shaun and would love to see him get a run at it in the AFL. The game is going away from the days of having 10-11 defenders in the side. A more attacking game means guys who can create goals from nothing are worth their weight in gold and he definitely offers that.

 

[calder_daddy]

We hoped he would be better than he actually is.

That is definitely another possibility

 

[kcattatac]

I didn’t see the game because the stream was f*cked. But if Mannagh didn’t play mid, how did he get 6 clearances in the first half?

Must have got them from forward half stoppages as never attended a centre bounce

 

[Warhorse]

We hoped he would be better than he actually is.

Maybe they resigned him for PR reasons. Would have been 2 seasons in a row moving a player here then dumping a few months later.

 

[Hinkley29]

Must have got them from forward half stoppages as never attended a centre bounce

Forwards are allowed to go outside of their area. This isn’t netball

 

[thejester]

I didn’t see the game because the stream was f*cked. But if Mannagh didn’t play mid, how did he get 6 clearances in the first half?

He was around stoppages in the forward half. Genuinely quite exciting how he moves around and through stoppages, combined with Parfitt and Stanley he was very dangerous.