VFL VFL Round 18 v Richmond. Sunday July 28 10:05am @ Swinburne Centre.

[35Daicos]

I think Steene is senior listed and was the player elevated to make up the numbers end of 2023. AJ’s the one still on the rookie list and he’s gone. I’d have Macrae 4th of that group because he’s had the time the others haven’t on our list and has arguably been the weakest performed in 2024, but that’s only my take. In the end we might find a spot if required, but someone will bob up with interest.

Ash Johnson is on the senior list in 2024. Markov was elevated at the end of last year as well (along with Steene).

 

[Scodog10]

Ash Johnson is on the senior list in 2024. Markov was elevated at the end of last year as well (along with Steene).

Ugh that makes it even harder to find room for Macrae if that’s the play. Who do you have as the rookies? I get lost with this shit slightly more than it feels the club has…

FWIW retaining him is a carbon copy of T Brown and Kelly for 22 and 23 respectively. Ditto Reef. Like Bianco and Roscoe they’re state league footballers that have tipped over from proving the talent ID correct to proving the top level rating wrong.

 

[35Daicos]

Ugh that makes it even harder to find room for Macrae if that’s the play. Who do you have as the rookies? I get lost with this shit slightly more than it feels the club has…

FWIW retaining him is a carbon copy of T Brown and Kelly for 22 and 23 respectively. Ditto Reef. Like Bianco and Roscoe they’re state league footballers.

Cat. A
Begg
Bytel
Carmichael
Dean
Eyre
Long
Smit
Sullivan

Cat. B
Parker

 

[35Daicos]

The Football Record had our list looking like this at the time of the Anzac Day clash (I don't have a scan from a more recent copy available):

# = Category A Rookie

They got it wrong with Parker, unfortunately - he should have an * (Category B Rookie) by his name. Hopefully they've corrected that by now!

Of course Long and Smit have been added as Cat. A Rookies since then.

The club did announce back in November that Johnson and Markov had been elevated: https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/1460420/johnson-and-markov-elevated-to-senior-list
Steene was also elevated to give us (the minimum) 36 on the primary list.

 

[Finnishpie]

We do. Go back and watch Rd 14 and pay close attention to how a 19yo tore him a new one. Since then it’s been a revolving door of fringe guys getting a look in at senior level between Long, Bytel and Sullivan with no Macrae. He won’t be on the list next year.

Yeah, I've heard the argument.

Mihocek wasn't good enough for 7 drafts too I think.

 

[Bianconeri]

I think Steene is senior listed and was the player elevated to make up the numbers end of 2023. To my knowledge AJ’s the one still on the rookie list and he’s gone. Begg probably gone as well. I’d have Macrae 4th of that group because he’s had the time the others haven’t on our list and has arguably been the weakest performed in 2024, but that’s only my take.

Let’s say I’m wrong Steene, AJ, Begg, Carmichael, Dean for Eyre, Bytel, Sullivan, Long, Smit… It again comes down to those 4 and as you’ve been suggesting the actions of coaches hint at Macrae being 4th. In the end we might find a spot, but someone will bob up with interest.

Macrae and Ash are contracted for next season though. Do you think it’s possible we’ll cut one or more players with a contract?

 

[sr36]

I think Steene is senior listed and was the player elevated to make up the numbers end of 2023. To my knowledge AJ’s the one still on the rookie list and he’s gone. Begg probably gone as well. I’d have Macrae 4th of that group because he’s had the time the others haven’t on our list and has arguably been the weakest performed in 2024, but that’s only my take.

Let’s say I’m wrong Steene, AJ, Begg, Carmichael, Dean for Eyre, Bytel, Sullivan, Long, Smit… It again comes down to those 4 and as you’ve been suggesting the actions of coaches hint at Macrae being 4th. In the end we might find a spot, but someone will bob up with interest.

Whilst we might want to move on AJ and Finn - they're contracted, so it means either another team will have to want them or we'll have to move away from our practice of not delisting contracted players. I'm skeptical about another team wanting to list them.

I think we'd delist them if they weren't contracted - and not many delisted guys get picked up by other clubs.

 

[Scodog10]

Yeah, I've heard the argument.

Mihocek wasn't good enough for 7 drafts too I think.

Mihocek being overlooked for 7 drafts is about talent ID not development.

Macrae and Ash are contracted for next season though. Do you think it’s possible we’ll cut one or more players with a contract?

I think Macrae will find a new home and I would cut AJ ala James Stewart.

Whilst we might want to move on AJ and Finn - they're contracted, so it means either another team will have to want them or we'll have to move away from our practice of not delisting contracted players. I'm skeptical about another team wanting to list them.

I think we'd delist them if they weren't contracted - and not many delisted guys get picked up by other clubs.

We have 4 on our list recruited in the past two years (Bytel, Long, Markov and Eyre).

If you’re a skeptic of others picking them up why are we keeping them? The two of them are list cloggers and a cheap contract for a further year when all of our key players are re-signed and we aren’t looking for a big name is no reason to keep them around.

Worst case I’d do the rookie shuffle with AJ and try him down back because I think he struggles with the physical side of forward craft, but all the talent in the world can’t fix uncompetitiveness.

 

[sr36]

Mihocek being overlooked for 7 drafts is about talent ID not development.

I think Macrae will find a new home and I would cut AJ ala James Stewart.

We have 4 on our list recruited in the past two years (Bytel, Long, Markov and Eyre).

If you’re a skeptic of others picking them up why are we keeping them? The two of them are list cloggers and a cheap contract for a further year when all of our key players are re-signed and we aren’t looking for a big name is no reason to keep them around.

Worst case I’d do the rookie shuffle with AJ and try him down back because I think he struggles with the physical side of forward craft, but all the talent in the world can’t fix uncompetitiveness.

I'm not sure why clubs don't ever seem to delist and pay out contracted players - unless there's been a discipline breach - but they don't. We kept Sam Murray listed until the end of his contract - even with a discipline breach. Maybe it's labour laws and formal warnings and what not?

 

[Scodog10]

I'm not sure why clubs don't ever seem to delist and pay out contracted players - unless there's been a discipline breach - but they don't. We kept Sam Murray listed until the end of his contract - even with a discipline breach. Maybe it's labour laws and formal warnings and what not?

As above James Stewart was cut by Essendon last year with a year to run on his contract. My guess is clubs would rather persist than acknowledge they erred with a contract decision. Genuinely question why did we sign Macrae for 2025 before he’d done anything? Like McInnes he should be falling OOC this year.

 

[sr36]

As above James Stewart was cut by Essendon last year with a year to run on his contract. My guess is clubs would rather persist than acknowledge they erred with a contract decision. Genuinely question why did we sign Macrae for 2025 before he’d done anything? Like McInnes he should be falling OOC this year.

They may intend to keep him, but it looks like a bad bet to me. With the Ryan and Allan extensions as well - I'm assuming that they're betting that they'll become good and thus become worth more if the renewal is delayed. Attempted cap saving with the risk of a tighter list squeeze.

I get the impression from recent moves that Wright isn't being enough of a devil's advocate to the positivity of the coaches. Carmichael and Begg being extended and signing so many of the SSP guys plus those early extensions seem overly bullish about the bottom of the list to me.

 

[Scodog10]

They may intend to keep him, but it looks like a bad bet to me. With the Ryan and Allan extensions as well - I'm assuming that they're betting that they'll become good and thus become worth more if the renewal is delayed. Attempted cap saving with the risk of a tighter list squeeze.

I get the impression from recent moves that Wright isn't being enough of a devil's advocate to the positivity of the coaches. Carmichael and Begg being extended and signing so many of the SSP guys plus those early extensions seem overly bullish about the bottom of the list to me.

That’s the one and only ? I have of the current coaches. We have only Naicos and McReery as draftees we’ve developed into best 23 players from the past 5 drafts. I’m bullish on HH, but none of our other draftees are more than speculative at this point (I like Parker, but he’s a free hit).

It’s amazing how quickly the balance can tip when you’re going to the well with those NQR types. You go from having a strong list and using them sparingly (Markov was the only one last year) to regularly fielding 3-4 in your best 23 with negligible impact (Bytel, Long and Sullivan have combined for 18 matches since Rd 9).

 

[sr36]

It’s amazing how quickly the balance can tip when you’re going to the well with those NQR types. You go from having a strong list and using them sparingly (Markov was the only one last year) to regularly fielding 3-4 in your best 23 with negligible impact (Bytel, Long and Sullivan have combined for 18 matches since Rd 9).

What I'd do wouldn't alleviate the quality issue in the senior team - at least not in the short term.. I'd churn through the bottom of the list more quickly as I think it's a numbers game and you've got to give yourself more chances of a hit.

We're over backing late development. Not taking enough kids and have too many over 21s who haven't kicked on either with us or where they were originally drafted. You need some of these guys as depth but it's too high a percentage of the list.