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WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not, Part II
- Thread starter YOTC
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- Banned
- #102
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
It works both ways.
Thanks for conceding.
I do know of your superiority so I won't bother with the argument.
Good to see 87
It works both ways.
Thanks for conceding.
- Banned
- #103
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
Well, I guess there's quoting out of context, and then there's just outright editing to suit yourself. Good to see you've got no answer for my previous response too 87.
It works both ways.
Thanks for conceding.
Well, I guess there's quoting out of context, and then there's just outright editing to suit yourself. Good to see you've got no answer for my previous response too 87.
- Banned
- #104
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
Your previous response was a pisstake, why would I respond with anything reasonable?
As I said in my previous answer, there is no compelling argument in either direction i.e. an argument that clearly beats the alternate.
Your response is arguable and we could debate it all day. In real life, the one hour difference is an issue for many businesses that typically results in either a lesser service for a period of the day or increased costs. Not insurmountable but unnecessary.
I am yet to hear an argument against that has any real merit and cant be shot down by the fact that many similar places, with similar climates handle it fine.... that basically eliminates every negative argument except "i just dont like it" - which cant be argued against because its a non-logical position . You dont like it and you think it causes no problems to not have it. I take the alternate view. My view is shared by a majority of people in our own country and in the Western world... which means nothing of course....
Edit away...
Your previous response was a pisstake, why would I respond with anything reasonable?
As I said in my previous answer, there is no compelling argument in either direction i.e. an argument that clearly beats the alternate.
Your response is arguable and we could debate it all day. In real life, the one hour difference is an issue for many businesses that typically results in either a lesser service for a period of the day or increased costs. Not insurmountable but unnecessary.
I am yet to hear an argument against that has any real merit and cant be shot down by the fact that many similar places, with similar climates handle it fine.... that basically eliminates every negative argument except "i just dont like it" - which cant be argued against because its a non-logical position . You dont like it and you think it causes no problems to not have it. I take the alternate view. My view is shared by a majority of people in our own country and in the Western world... which means nothing of course....
Edit away...
- Banned
- #105
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
My previous answer was not a piss-take, it was outlining what I thought was the real issue with the scenario you posted, and that is clearly not DLS. If a business is not capable of dealing with a one hour time difference, then I'd question it's ability to operate at all.
As you have said, the arguments for DLS are no better than the arguments against. WA has survived all this time without DLS, if the people choose not to continue with it after the trial, then how can anyone complain?
My previous answer was not a piss-take, it was outlining what I thought was the real issue with the scenario you posted, and that is clearly not DLS. If a business is not capable of dealing with a one hour time difference, then I'd question it's ability to operate at all.
As you have said, the arguments for DLS are no better than the arguments against. WA has survived all this time without DLS, if the people choose not to continue with it after the trial, then how can anyone complain?
- Banned
- #106
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
Well they can complain for the same reason as the naysayers i.e. there is no reason not to have it and I like it and I think it has some benefits (both business and lifestyle) - those against it are against it for meaningless reasons that are a non-issue in similar cultures with similar weather patterns/climate (so they arent really issues).
These are valid reasons from a particular perspective.
But the faded curtain brigade
will be out in full force and they with their (i dont like change and everyone else can **** off) brigade have a real chance of having DLS stopped - those of you who may have some well considered views are in with the backward cretin movement whether you like it or not... its like being on the same side in a debate with Fielding, you might win but you still feel dirty!
Well they can complain for the same reason as the naysayers i.e. there is no reason not to have it and I like it and I think it has some benefits (both business and lifestyle) - those against it are against it for meaningless reasons that are a non-issue in similar cultures with similar weather patterns/climate (so they arent really issues).
These are valid reasons from a particular perspective.
But the faded curtain brigade
will be out in full force and they with their (i dont like change and everyone else can **** off) brigade have a real chance of having DLS stopped - those of you who may have some well considered views are in with the backward cretin movement whether you like it or not... its like being on the same side in a debate with Fielding, you might win but you still feel dirty! - Banned
- #107
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
There are cretins on both sides. The number of pro-DLS people who believe in the sudden existence of an extra magical hour from pushing the clock forward doesn't do their cause much good.
The argument that 'everyone else manages with it' is just like the one where your mum asks you if you'd jump off a cliff just because everyone else is doing it. Ever considered that perhaps the reason a lot of people like Perth is because it is different? We don't have DLS, we don't have Sunday trading? etc, etc. If all places on Earth were the same, it would be a very boring place.
Well they can complain for the same reason as the naysayers i.e. there is no reason not to have it and I like it and I think it has some benefits (both business and lifestyle) - those against it are against it for meaningless reasons that are a non-issue in similar cultures with similar weather patterns/climate (so they arent really issues).
These are valid reasons from a particular perspective.
But the faded curtain brigade
There are cretins on both sides. The number of pro-DLS people who believe in the sudden existence of an extra magical hour from pushing the clock forward doesn't do their cause much good.
The argument that 'everyone else manages with it' is just like the one where your mum asks you if you'd jump off a cliff just because everyone else is doing it. Ever considered that perhaps the reason a lot of people like Perth is because it is different? We don't have DLS, we don't have Sunday trading? etc, etc. If all places on Earth were the same, it would be a very boring place.
- Banned
- #108
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
Whilst this is true, Perth is already a very boring place....... so......
We are in a fight for human capital i.e. people. Our growth has been constrained by a lack of suitably qualified people in almost every aspect of our economy. Our growth has been good but based on massive wages to get people to work here... we are, in most aspects of the professions and related industries, paying higher wages than any city in Australia (with the exception of Sydney CBD).
We cant sell ourselves on being inexpensive, because we arent, we cant sell ourselves on lifestyle - because for the demographic we seek to attract we are boring....
DLS doesnt address that but the mindset that wants us to be different by not doing anything is problematic IMO.
We are lucky we have the resources that we do, otherwise we would be a backwater because of the that mindset.
This does give us a point of difference though, come to Perth a great place to retire in peace....
Whilst this is true, Perth is already a very boring place....... so......
We are in a fight for human capital i.e. people. Our growth has been constrained by a lack of suitably qualified people in almost every aspect of our economy. Our growth has been good but based on massive wages to get people to work here... we are, in most aspects of the professions and related industries, paying higher wages than any city in Australia (with the exception of Sydney CBD).
We cant sell ourselves on being inexpensive, because we arent, we cant sell ourselves on lifestyle - because for the demographic we seek to attract we are boring....
DLS doesnt address that but the mindset that wants us to be different by not doing anything is problematic IMO.
We are lucky we have the resources that we do, otherwise we would be a backwater because of the that mindset.
This does give us a point of difference though, come to Perth a great place to retire in peace....
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
DLS has nothing to do with if a place is going to get people to move here or not, tasmania has DLS and still probably one of the most boring cities in australia that really struggles to attract young people. So it goes from having to be in step with EDST then its the climate now its we have to have it cause it'l atract people to WA. The majority of people dont want it cause of the reason i outlined in a previuos post, change it to end in feb and your on a winner. Thats how you taylor things to meet the communities needs. And to half back up most of what people are saying bout people not being out later in the evening, in hobart i really noticed that nov,dec and jan most people were out and about later in the evening but cum early to mid feb you would notice how much more people decided to stay inside and sit in front of the TV. By early march the streets are virtually empty, like iv said there is a place for DLS but not till the end of march. I understand your business needs and think it must be hard doing business with people from the east but what about the businesses that have to deal with SE asia we change to DLS and put a bigger time gap between us and them. I want to add im not against change as you would get a yes vote from me in a milli second to change the trading hours.
Whilst this is true, Perth is already a very boring place....... so......
We are in a fight for human capital i.e. people. Our growth has been constrained by a lack of suitably qualified people in almost every aspect of our economy. Our growth has been good but based on massive wages to get people to work here... we are, in most aspects of the professions and related industries, paying higher wages than any city in Australia (with the exception of Sydney CBD).
We cant sell ourselves on being inexpensive, because we arent, we cant sell ourselves on lifestyle - because for the demographic we seek to attract we are boring....
DLS doesnt address that but the mindset that wants us to be different by not doing anything is problematic IMO.
We are lucky we have the resources that we do, otherwise we would be a backwater because of the that mindset.
This does give us a point of difference though, come to Perth a great place to retire in peace....
DLS has nothing to do with if a place is going to get people to move here or not, tasmania has DLS and still probably one of the most boring cities in australia that really struggles to attract young people. So it goes from having to be in step with EDST then its the climate now its we have to have it cause it'l atract people to WA. The majority of people dont want it cause of the reason i outlined in a previuos post, change it to end in feb and your on a winner. Thats how you taylor things to meet the communities needs. And to half back up most of what people are saying bout people not being out later in the evening, in hobart i really noticed that nov,dec and jan most people were out and about later in the evening but cum early to mid feb you would notice how much more people decided to stay inside and sit in front of the TV. By early march the streets are virtually empty, like iv said there is a place for DLS but not till the end of march. I understand your business needs and think it must be hard doing business with people from the east but what about the businesses that have to deal with SE asia we change to DLS and put a bigger time gap between us and them. I want to add im not against change as you would get a yes vote from me in a milli second to change the trading hours.
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
Well its the third year of daylight saving in a row (2008).Lets hope that people are smart enough to vote YES in the referendum. I love it, its fantastic, although my cows have gone a bit strange and my curtains definately look a different colour, but I don't care, I love the evenings, having a beer after work in the back yard. Dreaming about next season going back to back, putting the barbie on, its bloody lovely!As all West Aussies on here would know, our State Parliament will this week vote on whether to adopt Daylight Saving (on a three year trial basis initially).
I have to say, its about bloody time this happened, and if the vote doesnt get up it will be sad day for Western Australia.
Ive personally had a gutful of hearing the case against and its nonsensical arguments like...
* Itll be too hot for farmers to put re-berth there livestock in the afternoon
* Kids wont be able to get too sleep
* The crime rate will go up because its too dark in the mornings
* Curtains and wallpaper will fade
* People will use up our limited tap water because there will
be more hot hours in a day.
And the fact people have been sucked in by this sort of garbage, and voted no in referendums on the issue....Im sorry but 'the people' have lost the right to having a say on the issue IMO. I fear many people lack the requisite intelligence needed for them to be allowed to vote in referendums.
Anyone who takes exception to the above comment needs to think back to the Republic referendum that got rolled because the model 'didnt allow people to have a vote on who is President'.
In effect the masses killed the dream of an Australian Republic because they were too dumb to realize that the idea of the people voting on who becomes President translates literally into the American system of "richest, most well connected bastard wins". It makes me sick that Australian's lacked the fundemental intelligence and maturity to understand that.
The fact WA (already two hours behind the rest of Australia prior to daylight saving) hasnt adopted daylight saving already is an absolute joke.
If we miss another chance to join the rest of the nation itll be an absolute disgrace.
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
Rubbish, get a beer and shut up!
Theeighthhamster
Team Captain
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
This thread is like a time machine. I love it.
This thread is like a time machine. I love it.
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
In Spring and Summer, there is much greater demand for late appointments. I work afternoons and evenings. If I needed to make contact over East, I would have to do it before 1pm, without DLS. I'm not always in the office before then, which would become quite a waste of my time.
I've found Eftpos is much much more frequently down after 5pm when the east is in DLS, and we are not.
In general, I've found it to be a massive pain in the arse when the east is in DLS and we are not.
I don't expect us to vote for DLS, much to my annoyance, due to our regressive populace. And I agree almost entirely with Eagle87 on the matter. He is right when it comes to recruitment in WA. This is yet another symptom of one of the main criticisms of Perth and WA, from prospective employees, that we are backward and aren't interested in being a part of the real world.
It's not a reason on its own for not being able to attract talented, skilled and educated young people to stay and to move here, but is a part of the whole mindset that leads to that outcome. We really need to lose it - it is embarassing.
Lol... yep... because those of us involved in the service industry can just change our working hours in defiance of client demand.
In Spring and Summer, there is much greater demand for late appointments. I work afternoons and evenings. If I needed to make contact over East, I would have to do it before 1pm, without DLS. I'm not always in the office before then, which would become quite a waste of my time.
I've found Eftpos is much much more frequently down after 5pm when the east is in DLS, and we are not.
In general, I've found it to be a massive pain in the arse when the east is in DLS and we are not.
I don't expect us to vote for DLS, much to my annoyance, due to our regressive populace. And I agree almost entirely with Eagle87 on the matter. He is right when it comes to recruitment in WA. This is yet another symptom of one of the main criticisms of Perth and WA, from prospective employees, that we are backward and aren't interested in being a part of the real world.
It's not a reason on its own for not being able to attract talented, skilled and educated young people to stay and to move here, but is a part of the whole mindset that leads to that outcome. We really need to lose it - it is embarassing.
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
Really? I deal with the East every day and my case allocators work in the East and I've never had any problems whatsoever.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. But declaring that a blanket circumstance is incorrect (not that you did..)
Really? I deal with the East every day and my case allocators work in the East and I've never had any problems whatsoever.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. But declaring that a blanket circumstance is incorrect (not that you did..)
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
I wouldn't find it a problem if I worked typical hours, but I don't, because of my client demands. So it becomes a pain for me.
No, I didn't.
I wouldn't find it a problem if I worked typical hours, but I don't, because of my client demands. So it becomes a pain for me.
Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.
As we get closer to the referendum watch the big guns come out.
The debate currently appears to be a wholly WA pov.
The media has worked overtime telling us what a better lifestyle...eg family, beach, park, riding, yada,yada, crap, spew it would be if we had DLS.
It is driven by business any body who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. One can only guess who the Carpenter Government thought they were submitting to when the 3 year trial was introduced.
What hasn't been considered is the affect of the 3 hour difference has on business traffic coming East to West. It would be like an itch that can't be scratched.
This is an important referendum. If it gets defeated no one will go near it for 20 years i'd reckon. During that time our State will get bigger and stronger both by population and economy. The itch will get worse.
Therefore we will be bombarded from all sides about how great it will be to introduce DLS.
The Eastern power bases wont like the idea of those WA recalcitrants not doing what they're told.
As we get closer to the referendum watch the big guns come out.
The debate currently appears to be a wholly WA pov.
The media has worked overtime telling us what a better lifestyle...eg family, beach, park, riding, yada,yada, crap, spew it would be if we had DLS.
It is driven by business any body who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. One can only guess who the Carpenter Government thought they were submitting to when the 3 year trial was introduced.
What hasn't been considered is the affect of the 3 hour difference has on business traffic coming East to West. It would be like an itch that can't be scratched.
This is an important referendum. If it gets defeated no one will go near it for 20 years i'd reckon. During that time our State will get bigger and stronger both by population and economy. The itch will get worse.
Therefore we will be bombarded from all sides about how great it will be to introduce DLS.
The Eastern power bases wont like the idea of those WA recalcitrants not doing what they're told.
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Lets keep the discussion going.
I find it hard to really have a say in this matter as I really don't care if we have it or not.
I do believe it is good for business on a national level. I have myself it is difficult when the east in 3 hours ahead, we had only till 1PM to have something sent overnight via airbag for work. It does hurt business this way in regards to service and manufacturing.
My family has coped with DLS and it has not affected them, though the kids do like the extra light to spend outside and throw a cricket ball or kick a footy.
I guess it does have it's throwbacks when we do have DLS, but again it does when we don't.
I find it hard to really have a say in this matter as I really don't care if we have it or not.
I do believe it is good for business on a national level. I have myself it is difficult when the east in 3 hours ahead, we had only till 1PM to have something sent overnight via airbag for work. It does hurt business this way in regards to service and manufacturing.
My family has coped with DLS and it has not affected them, though the kids do like the extra light to spend outside and throw a cricket ball or kick a footy.
I guess it does have it's throwbacks when we do have DLS, but again it does when we don't.
- Banned
- #120
The people who want it, want it because it would be nice, the people who don't want it, don’t want it because of the impact it has on their lives.
I’m a truck driver ( owner/driver ) so I’m use to early starts and long hours. I also love my job and earn more money than fly in, fly out workers and I’m home in my own bed at night, but DLS phuks me. I’m suffering from fatigue. In desperation, I brought a packet of no-doz today http://www.nodoz.com.au/ Hopefully that will stop me having little nanna naps at the lights.
I’m a truck driver ( owner/driver ) so I’m use to early starts and long hours. I also love my job and earn more money than fly in, fly out workers and I’m home in my own bed at night, but DLS phuks me. I’m suffering from fatigue. In desperation, I brought a packet of no-doz today http://www.nodoz.com.au/ Hopefully that will stop me having little nanna naps at the lights.
That argument really makes no sense.
- Banned
- #122
Sorry to spoil ur idea but the no-doze will not work, its your circadian rythym (body clock) thats the problem, if you can buy some melatonin from the US that might fix it, take it wen ur ready to sleep and youl get a deeper sleep, people use it for jet lag and i bet thats how u feel.
- Banned
- #125
happy worker + DLS = unhappy worker
truck + fatigue = fatal road accidents
fatigue: http://www.tacsafety.com.au/jsp/con...erID=1&navID=7334018F&navLink=null&pageID=203
truck + fatigue = fatal road accidents
fatigue: http://www.tacsafety.com.au/jsp/con...erID=1&navID=7334018F&navLink=null&pageID=203
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