Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Zidane98]

It won't do that all the while Putin runs the country, and the consequences it faces while he runs the country.

It wasn't always that way with him in the 00s. I think he got Tsar like ambitions in his head about a new Russian empire when he took 4 years off the presidency. Anyone who disagreed with that was seen as a threat to Putin back then and still to this very day.

 

[Vassp]

The time difference between impact is mere seconds for the 133kms difference in range between Baltic states to Moscow & Ukraine to Moscow.

Trying to argue that makes a real and discernible difference in a nuclear missile exchange is laughable.

Again you love putting words in my mouth, seconds are seconds, and seconds could mean the difference between interception or failure to intercept.

Anyway, I said ...so you know- and stop making crap up pls, why is the USA supplying long-range missiles to Ukraine- if it wants to de-escalate the war? Shouldn't they be looking to a peaceful end to the war?

 

[Vassp]

Most cruise missiles go 800 Km/h, ballistic missiles go 1,000 to 3,000 Km/h. I don't think time is relevant in this situation at these ranges anyway.

Then why make faster missiles then? Every second is relevant IMO. I am not a missiles expert BTW.

 

[Zidane98]

This is what winning looks like for Russia according to some

 

[Crankyhawk]

Stefanik rhymes with vatnik.

Eh I’m probably being charitable but it is likely a case of not wanting to contradict the boss (trump)

 

[Zidane98]

Again you love putting words in my mouth, seconds are seconds, and seconds could mean the difference between interception or failure to intercept.

Anyway, I said ...so you know- and stop making crap up pls, why is the USA supplying long-range missiles to Ukraine- if it wants to de-escalate the war? Shouldn't they be looking to a peaceful end to the war?

Obvious vatnik is obvious.


If this was a genuine concern of yours you would have already been asking the same question about Iranian cruise & ballistic missiles being fired at Ukraine.


You'd be asking the same question about NK troops & North Korean missiles being used against Ukraine. The reason why these things don't bother you is obvious.


The simple answer is all diplomatic attempts with Putin have failed. He's the modern day Hitler that simply cannot be negotiated with. Just have a look at his "peace" offerings to Ukraine which border on mentally unhinged. They're all pretty much Ukraine gives up territory, lets Russia control Ukraine. In any case there are two clear main reasons why:

Reason 1 is the US signed a treaty with Ukraine that it would defend Ukraine against those who attack it and threaten its sovereignty after the US convinced Ukraine to turn over its nuclear weapons arsenal & advanced long range bombers to Russia.

Reason 2 is peace & stability in Europe is important to US. No NATO state has ever been invaded or at war since the alliance was formed in 1949. A Russia invading and taking over Ukraine's territory / resources is a huge threat to security in Europe. Belarus is already bad enough. Ukraine is a red line being crossed that European nations & US simply won't accept being crossed.

 

[Aussie in exile]

This is what winning looks like for Russia according to some

All because of a little mans ego

 

[Vassp]

Obvious vatnik is obvious.


If this was a genuine concern of yours you would have already been asking the same question about Iranian cruise & ballistic missiles being fired at Ukraine.


You'd be asking the same question about NK troops & North Korean missiles being used against Ukraine. The reason why these things don't bother you is obvious.


The simple answer is all diplomatic attempts with Putin have failed. He's the modern day Hitler that simply cannot be negotiated with. Just have a look at his "peace" offerings to Ukraine which border on mentally unhinged. They're all pretty much Ukraine gives up territory, lets Russia control Ukraine. In any case there are two clear main reasons why:

Reason 1 is the US signed a treaty with Ukraine that it would defend Ukraine against those who attack it and threaten its sovereignty after the US convinced Ukraine to turn over its nuclear weapons arsenal & advanced long range bombers to Russia.

Reason 2 is peace & stability in Europe is important to US. No NATO state has ever been invaded or at war since the alliance was formed in 1949. A Russia invading and taking over Ukraine's territory / resources is a huge threat to security in Europe. Belarus is already bad enough. Ukraine is a red line being crossed that European nations & US simply won't accept being crossed.

mate, you're a peice of work. dream on, end of convo. please don't reply. I'm done with you.

 

[Aussie in exile]

21% interest rates tell us all we need to know about how bad things are doing in Russia under little legs.

Russia’s economy is overheating but Putin cannot change course

Russia's wartime economy is in danger of overheating due to a combination of record military spending, sanctions pressures, and runaway inflation, but Vladimir Putin dare not change course, writes Alexander Mertens.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[Zidane98]

All because of a little mans ego

Incredible isn't it. Russia has, due to Putin being an imperialistic moron:



- Had its natural resource income smashed to smithereens.

- Been suspended from all major international sporting associations inc FIFA & UEFA.

- Isolated from the rest of Europe. Having to make allies with despotic dictatorship regimes.

- Had nearly a million citizens flee to avoid conscription. Suffered 700,000 + casualites. All in the name of Putin's dream of a new Russian empire.

- Had to write new laws authorising the theft of commercial aircraft from private lessors just so Russia can keep some form of commercial airlines industry up and running.

- Economy decimated. Inflation up to 21% & increasing. National wealth fund being squandered on an invasion that offers zero benefit to the people of Russia.

-Had its territory occupied by a foreign state for the first time ever of the so called Russian Federation since its inception in 1991.

- Had its leader Putin issued an arrest warrant by the ICC for forced mass child deportation.



All of the above to appease Putin's ego.

 

[Zidane98]

21% interest rates tell us all we need to know about how bad things are doing in Russia under little legs.

Russia’s economy is overheating but Putin cannot change course

Russia's wartime economy is in danger of overheating due to a combination of record military spending, sanctions pressures, and runaway inflation, but Vladimir Putin dare not change course, writes Alexander Mertens.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

He's no doubt been warned by his economic advisors the dangers of continuing the war to Russia's economy. He probably just ignores them and says comrade the new Russian empire is more important.

 

[Aussie in exile]

He's no doubt been warned by his economic advisors the dangers of continuing the war to Russia's economy. He probably just ignores them and says comrade the new Russian empire is more important.

I think like Russian apologists he's not very intelligent.

 

[The Terrible Thinker]

Then why make faster missiles then? Every second is relevant IMO. I am not a missiles expert BTW.

You realize that when missiles & drones are fired, its just not one at a time?

It has been demonstrated how ineffective Russian air defenses has been against the slow, propeller driven drone attacks that can take hours over Russian airspace to reach their targets.

 

[Zidane98]

I think like Russian apologists he's not very intelligent.

I actually believe Putin is an intelligent person.

He's just become so consumed by his USSR era mindset that he's losing touch with reality. Many leaders who have spoken to Putin personally have also stated this. Him becoming terrified of covid probably didn't help things either where I am sure he spent many lonely days reading about Alexander the great and / or various Tsars.

Here we are today with him surrounded mostly by those who were around in the USSR days where everything western was considered to be the enemy.

 

[wannabejack]

For russian apologists it’s a fact that russia is the real victim in this war with Ukraine.
For russians, they have always been a blameless victim of foreign aggression even if the aggression was a response to acts of aggression by russia itself.

 

[Vassp]

You realize that when missiles & drones are fired, its just not one at a time?

It has been demonstrated how ineffective Russian air defenses has been against the slow, propeller driven drone attacks that can take hours over Russian airspace to reach their targets.

Gee i thought they fired one at a time. Like one every hour or something, Thanks for sharing your wisdom. I would never have known if it wasn't for you. I thought Chinese missiles were so fast it was hard for air defenses to stop them, But i must be mistaken. I think the slower one must be better. better save that extra money then.

 

[The Terrible Thinker]

Gee i thought they fired one at a time. Like one every hour or something, Thanks for sharing your wisdom. I would never have known if it wasn't for you. I thought Chinese missiles were so fast it was hard for air defenses to stop them, But i must be mistaken. I think the slower one must be better. better save that extra money then.

Well watch some Youtube, especially channels that do DCS (digital combat simulator) to get an idea what an actual cruise missile attack looks like.

 

[Andre]

Plot twist: Vassp believes Russia should rightly invade Finland in response to NATO expansion.

Plot twist: I think as part of the settlement to end the war Russia should give back Vyborg to the Fins, the Kuril Islands to Japan and Königsberg (Kaliningrad) to the Germans.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Again you love putting words in my mouth, seconds are seconds, and seconds could mean the difference between interception or failure to intercept.

Anyway, I said ...so you know- and stop making crap up pls, why is the USA supplying long-range missiles to Ukraine- if it wants to de-escalate the war? Shouldn't they be looking to a peaceful end to the war?

maybe, just maybe the best way for this war to end is by making it untenable for Russia. How do you think Ukraine can de-escalate the war?

 

[Vassp]

maybe, just maybe the best way for this war to end is by making it untenable for Russia. How do you think Ukraine can de-escalate the war?

why dont you ask a different question like..... who has a vested interest in the war to keep going?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

why dont you ask a different question like..... who has a vested interest in the war to keep going?

Obviously Ukraine, everyone else pale in comparison

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[Mobbs]

Russia invaded Ukraine illegally you say for the thousandth time.
Bot like behaviour.

Yeah Aussie in exile !

 

[Frank Grimes]

And Putin is trust worthy enough to negotiate a peace deal with.....