What's going on with Carlton's list

[Monkey King]

He's 22, yet only just broke into the team this year. He's horribly inaccurate (7.12), kicking just over a goal a game.

Yes. It's been noted over and over that probably Levi's only issue is goal accuracy. Aside from that, he certainly didn't battle at AFL level, so I'm still struggling to see the validity of your jibe.

Gumby meanwhile averaged almost double the amount of goals - despite playing in a team that by stage of the year was getting smashed - while Hansen averaged only slightly less than Gumbleton. Dawes had a terrible year, but is a big body and would generate lots of crumbs for your smalls.

And this is where the skew comes in. Firstly with the great comment - Dawes would generate a lot of crumbs for your smalls - err ... not really what the Blues need; what we need is someone who can mark the bloody thing. CLEARLY that's what we need. And Waite and Casboult did that more than all but THREE players when they played last year. None of these three mentioned are better than them at that, all are inferior. Crumbs to the smalls ... really, what a stupid thing to say in the context of this discussion.

So what Gumby averaged more goals than Casboult? Not sure if it's simply a lack of knowledge on your part or a disingenuous approach to honest assessment, but Casboult played as the second ruck, not a stay at home KPF and in one of his six games, wasa lone ruckman who didn't play forward at all. Gumby should have averaged more and yet it's only ONE goal every second game; and Levi still took more marks inside 50 and more contested marks. So let's look at this claim on Gumby a little more closely, with a dash of the reality already discussed added in ... in the five games Levi played forward/ruck he averaged 3.8 shots on goal (1.4/2.4) and 3.2 F50 marks. Gumbleton averaged 2.5 shots on goal (1.8/0.7) and 1.8 F50 marks.

Gumbleton is a senior list player with 28 games over 6 years and a fused spine. He is the very epitome of the phrase battler. Casboult was recruited to the rookie as a project player in need of developing his body and game who's starting to come on now as expected. As the younger man playing both ruck & forward, he's still outperforming Gumbles in everything but goal accuracy; probably why he also outrates him in CD rankings. It's a no-brainer who you'd go with and your criticisms of Carlton for wanting to continue with Casboult's development rather than shelve him for someone like Gumby just shows ridiculous this thread really is.

 

[Essendonia]

Kinda sums up your whole effort tbh.

Does it really? No. But hey, keep blabbing about injuries, and maybe that will somehow prove that there is quality of depth in your list. Good on ya.

 

[Monkey King]

Not addressing their deficiencies is bizarre,

Going around in circles here. Our deficiencies come mostly from our injuries. No need to shelve these players and reach for others, especially guys who are generally inferior anyway. If the right trade comes along (ie Hansen), I hope the club goes for it, but no point reaching ... in fact, that would be a really poor move.

... as every recent premier has filled holes at the trade table.

Who did Sydney recruit last year to take them from behind Carlton to pass six other teams and become premiers? Mitch Morton? LOL. Hardly addressing structural holes at the trade table with Mitch. No you see, this is rather a bit of a fallacy. Carlton have traded in previous years and this year we're not. Does that mean we can't improve? Well that's been proven as utter rot. Will it stop your irrational bleating about this misnomer? Extremely doubtful

 

[Monkey King]

Does it really? No. But hey, keep blabbing about injuries, and maybe that will somehow prove that there is quality of depth in your list. Good on ya.

So is Essendon's second half of the season the level of list they are? No improvement to come from a healthy list?

Shit ... you reckon getting Goddard is gonna turn all that around.

Some real shallow thinkers on this site, I tell you!

 

[Essendonia]

So is Essendon's second half of the season the level of list they are? No improvement to come from a healthy list?

Shit ... you reckon getting Goddard is gonna turn all that around.

Some real shallow thinkers on this site, I tell you!

Stop quoting me. I don't want the notifications or to come back to this thread. The thread is about Carlton's list, not ours. You lost to Port before the injury rot set in, and got completely undone by us when you were flying after the Pies win. You're just not all that, even with everything in your favour.

Refuse to be drawn into discussing EFC list in this thread. I'm not coming back, either, so you can try to deflect onto some other poster.

 

[Monkey King]

Stop quoting me. I don't want the notifications or to come back to this thread. The thread is about Carlton's list, not ours.

Ummm ... it was you who replied to me sunshine! If you don't want the notifications it's simple, don't quote me!

You lost to Port before the injury rot set in ...

Nope! Completely incorrect. We played Port in round 10 - off the top off my head were without Murphy, Carrots, Kreuzer, Waite, Henderson and had Yaz just back from injury. And that's what's wrong with this thread, people who don't know much pretending that they do. Wake up to yourself!!!

... to be drawn into discussing EFC list in this thread.

I don't want to discuss the Essendon list dude. It was a point to try and put what you wrote into its proper context. No doubt the candle by which you hold the Blues to in your comments on injury is completely different to that which you hold the Dons to. Just trying to crack your shell of understanding and reveal the duplicity.

 

[forwardflanker]

So is Essendon's second half of the season the level of list they are? No improvement to come from a healthy list?

Shit ... you reckon getting Goddard is gonna turn all that around.

Some real shallow thinkers on this site, I tell you!

13k posts and you just realised this? All you've done in this thread is throw hateful vitriol at anyone who questions anything to do with the current crisis down at Carlton. When I created this thread I didn't intend it to be hijacked by bitter and twisted posters like yourself. It was supposed to be a sincere attempt at problem solving the crisis of youth at the blues. Luckily, in spite of posters like you, we have had some really positive contributions and I feel like we are moving in a positive direction.

I would like to now steer conversation to the question of Bryce Gibbs. To me, his failure is a symbol of the whole clubs failure of the last decade in developing their youth. Why is he an average player? Is it a development issue? Did they recruit the wrong man? Does he lack the desire to compete at the highest level? Does he not enjoy the hard ball? Is he better than a tagger? Do you, the posters of bigfooty, believe that Carlton got value for money in selecting him as their number 1 pick?

Discuss

 

[Monkey King]

13k posts and you just realised this? All you've done in this thread is throw hateful vitriol at anyone who questions anything to do with the current crisis down at Carlton.

Hateful vitriol??? Wow! You're really wound up aren't you? Can you maybe quote some of this hateful vitriol? Seems like another one of your beat-ups to me. So yeah-nah, not vitriol, but I do vigorously question anyone suggesting a current crisis and thus far, not-a-one has stood up to that questioning.

Your issue in this thread has been your struggle to genuinely assess Carlton's list and redress the flawed methods you've undertaken. You list some players as failures or as having no scope for improvement, then when questioned on the subject matter, run back to this delusionary little refuge where it's all just some big bad Blues supporter picking on you? Pfft! Claims that can't withstand vigorous questioning aren't worth a penny I'm afraid

I would like to now steer conversation to the question of Bryce Gibbs.

Where he was drafted 6 years down the track is meaningless. Better than Hansen or Gumbleton who were taken right after him, and none of it means a thing. But why is he a failure? He's only 23yo and finished top 3 in the B&F 4 out of 5 years running. Is that a failure? Of course it's not. Some serious explanation needed here.

Does he need to improve? Sure he does. Has he achieved his potential? Sure he hasn't? But damn, he's still just 23yo. IMO Ratten had a lot to do with this, playing it safe with Bryce and using him behind the ball to exploit his elite ball use and decision making, rather than adding dimensions to his game and developing him as a player. Had a pretty poor year by his standards this season, but the end of last season showed exactly how great this kid could be when used properly.

Reckon you're going to be in for a shock on this one next year; and it's the perfect example to show your "crisis" is an invented one.

 

[blueboy25]

It appears that Carlton can neither develop their youth nor detect deficiencies and adequately address them by bringing in mature aged recruits.

We recruited a mature age key forward last year who unfortunately was diagnosed with cancer during the year. The year before we recruited Nick Duigan, you may remember him, he tore your captain a new one in rd 15.

I am more concerned how Nick Maxwell finished 5th in your best and fairest when most people think he is lucky to even get a game.

If Collingwood are so great at developing youth then why hasn't Witts and Ceglar made an impact, every year we are told that watch out Witts is about to tear the comp apart. We are still waiting

 

[bombermick]

Yes. It's been noted over and over that probably Levi's only issue is goal accuracy. Aside from that, he certainly didn't battle at AFL level, so I'm still struggling to see the validity of your jibe.



And this is where the skew comes in. Firstly with the great comment - Dawes would generate a lot of crumbs for your smalls - err ... not really what the Blues need; what we need is someone who can mark the bloody thing. CLEARLY that's what we need. And Waite and Casboult did that more than all but THREE players when they played last year. None of these three mentioned are better than them at that, all are inferior. Crumbs to the smalls ... really, what a stupid thing to say in the context of this discussion.

So what Gumby averaged more goals than Casboult? Not sure if it's simply a lack of knowledge on your part or a disingenuous approach to honest assessment, but Casboult played as the second ruck, not a stay at home KPF and in one of his six games, wasa lone ruckman who didn't play forward at all. Gumby should have averaged more and yet it's only ONE goal every second game; and Levi still took more marks inside 50 and more contested marks. So let's look at this claim on Gumby a little more closely, with a dash of the reality already discussed added in ... in the five games Levi played forward/ruck he averaged 3.8 shots on goal (1.4/2.4) and 3.2 F50 marks. Gumbleton averaged 2.5 shots on goal (1.8/0.7) and 1.8 F50 marks.

Gumbleton is a senior list player with 28 games over 6 years and a fused spine. He is the very epitome of the phrase battler. Casboult was recruited to the rookie as a project player in need of developing his body and game who's starting to come on now as expected. As the younger man playing both ruck & forward, he's still outperforming Gumbles in everything but goal accuracy; probably why he also outrates him in CD rankings. It's a no-brainer who you'd go with and your criticisms of Carlton for wanting to continue with Casboult's development rather than shelve him for someone like Gumby just shows ridiculous this thread really is.

You can't play a forward with that kind of inaccuracy, unless they're taking as much shots as Buddy. Where is this fused back rubbish coming from? And finally you rubbish the recruitment of Morton, yet he kicked two goals that proved matchwinning in a GF and addressed a need.

 

[Kramer1]

If Collingwood are so great at developing youth then why hasn't Witts and Ceglar made an impact, every year we are told that watch out Witts is about to tear the comp apart. We are still waiting

In fairness 'every' year would be a total of one...small point, play on.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We recruited a mature age key forward last year who unfortunately was diagnosed with cancer during the year. The year before we recruited Nick Duigan, you may remember him, he tore your captain a new one in rd 15.

I am more concerned how Nick Maxwell finished 5th in your best and fairest when most people think he is lucky to even get a game.

If Collingwood are so great at developing youth then why hasn't Witts and Ceglar made an impact, every year we are told that watch out Witts is about to tear the comp apart. We are still waiting

Every year huh?

How long do you think hes been on the list?

Take a wild guess

 

[blueboy25]

Every year huh?

How long do you think hes been on the list?

Take a wild guess

He has been at Collingwood since 2008

 

[Norwegian Blue]

When I created this thread I didn't intend it to be hijacked by bitter and twisted posters like yourself. It was supposed to be a sincere attempt at problem solving the crisis of youth at the blues.

Yeah, because nothing solves problems like bigfooty threads started by random internet flogs.

You're probably one of those deluded types who makes statements in trading week threads like "There's no way we'll accept draft pick X for player Y, we won't take anything less than <the crown jewels / workable fusion / the past three Brownlow winners>" and imagines they're part of the process.

 

[dog in a manger]

He has been at Collingwood since 2008

Draft History
2011 NAB AFL Draft 4th round selection (Collingwood) No. 67 overall as a NSW Scholarship holder.

 

[blueboy25]

Draft History
2011 NAB AFL Draft 4th round selection (Collingwood) No. 67 overall as a NSW Scholarship holder.

2008
Signed to Collingwood under the NSW Scholarship scheme.

 

[dog in a manger]

2008
Signed to Collingwood under the NSW Scholarship scheme.

so how long has he played in a collingwood jumper?

but as you say,
every year we are told that watch out Witts carlton is about to tear the comp apart. We are still waiting

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He has been at Collingwood since 2008

Been on the senior list for one year.

 

[blueboy25]

Been on the senior list for one year.

Been at the club for longer and your supporters have been calling him the next coming of Christ for more than one year.

A bit like Essendon supporters and Joe Daniher.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Been at the club for longer and your supporters have been calling him the next coming of Christ for more than one year..

Even Christ was a baby once.

Witts and Ceglar are doing their apprenticeships.

 

[blueboy25]

Even Christ was a baby once.

Yep and a Collingwood supporter probably stole his pram

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yep and a Collingwood supporter probably stole his pram

Are you serious?

Its it possible to be more immature?

 

[dog in a manger]

Been at the club for longer and your supporters have been calling him the next coming of Christ for more than one year.

A bit like Essendon supporters and Joe Daniher.

A bit like Carlton and Levi Casboult who has been on carlton's list since 2010 and is 2.5 yrs older than Witts

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

A bit like Carlton and Levi Casboult who has been on carlton's list since 2010 and is 2.5 yrs older than Witts

To be fair Levi has just recovered from the alcohol poisoning inflicted under Chris Judds watch.

 

[blueboy25]

Witts and Ceglar are doing their apprenticeships.

Just like our key position players who have been drafted over the last 3 years, who if can stay injury free should make an impact next year.

But according to you and some others, Carlton should be out trading for anyone and everyone just because its trade week.

If Buddy Franklin or Sam Reid were available I am sure the club would be making a play for them but they are not and there is not a lot of GOOD key position players available via trade.