Why Geelong will overtake Hawthorn and become the on field AFL powerhouse

[vinum coupe]

Dont want to sound a cynical baarstaaard - but Lloyd was a an applicant and was interviewed for the Carlton senior coaching job - his ambition is to coach an AFL club

If the much hyped up Geelong of 2016 ( on the back of getting one proven top class player ) hits a few sandbars - and the boat gets a bit rocky - he might white ant Scotty - mind you a few posters here might be quite pleased with that

Show me a report where he was reported as being interviewed.
I know he was spruiked by the media as a candidate.

And I laughed.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You make good points; but your highlighted knee ACL point is simply incorrect. NO reconstructed knee is EVER stronger than the original, and research shows that every knee that has undergone reconstruction WILL end up with osteoarthritis to some extent. This will not affect the player in the short term, of course, but at best we can hope for around 85% original strength. Smith can still be fine, as you say, but not better in the knee than pre-injury. My mate at GC is convinced that Smith will have a lot to offer, and has not missed a session over 2015.

I can see Bobby's POV as well, as it was so evident this year, BUT we do seem to have tweaked our list superbly, and IF Clark, Stanley, Vardy, Menzel have any reasonable amount of luck with injury, we do have a potent forward set up.
I hate IF's , and we specialise in them.
I see immense upside in Kolo,Thurlow, Bews, in defence, and we know both Taylor and Hendo are KP swing players that give us huge versatility. It almost seems that our main problem is fitting all this talent in, after we get them to meld together.

Ditto our MF- where this was a weakness in 2015, it seriously is now a strength, just like that. We have a tagger, SS; we have a gun in and under, JS; we have Danger, which is huge, and IF Duncan is fully recovered, we saw what he gave us this year. Add Caddy, Guthrie- if he is not in defence, Motlop, Murdoch, Cockatoo, there has to be reason for optimism, and I am usually not blessed with lavish amounts of this preseason.

But it is always easy to be myopic, and see only our potential improvements, ignoring the teams like Pies, who have recruited superbly, etc.

Still, I would be disappointed if we are not playing and winning at least 2 finals; good enough to topple Hawthorn next year, that I doubt, I have them as favourites again, and the 4-peat is, imho, inevitable.

True I found it today that I was wrong about the knee coming back stronger , however most players do not end up like Menzel and continuously reinjuring .

You seem to have a belief based on a few of your posts that Hawthorn are destined for greatness, no side is destined for greatness , sides have success for tangible reasons .A big part of the reason why Hawthorn have had their recent success is because of the great job they have done in keeping their players in great physical condition. This includes not only having a almost fully fit side for 3 finals series in a row , but also keeping their older players in the physical condition of a 25 year old.


Geelong has done plenty of work behind the seen to address our injury problems , we basically have a totally new fitness team.You only have to look at Menzel and Vardy to realize they have made great progress. If they can get Menzel back on the park than they can get the other players
on the park .

Than with Hawthorn you also have to keep in mind that a few years ago they had 2 weaknesses .1 being tall forwards which they fixed by getting lake , 2 being the ruck .They just lost Lake so they can really be exposed down back once again and they have also lost Hale which will weaken their ruck division. You also have to ask the question how much longer can Hodge,Mitchel,Burgoyne and Gibson keep on playing at such a high level for ? eventually the ageing process is going to overpower them , I hope its this year.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I don't think our midfield is that good to be truthful. Blicavs, Caddy, Duncan, Guthrie are very promising players but they are nothing against the best midfields of the competition. They are still B grade footballers. I would throw Guthrie and Caddy in as C graders. They may explode and become our next Kelly, Corey and Ling's but it's still yet to be seen.
Blicavs is on the up but he's certainly a long way away from matching similar output to other tall midfielders like that of Kennedy, Watson, Barlow, Pendlebury etc.
Selwood and Dangerfield are obviously champions but our midfield is not in the same class as genuine premiership midfields. I sometimes wonder if you have been in a coma for a few years crazy because your rather high appraisal of our team & players is the kind of stuff you would expect to hear about in 2009 or thereabouts. The past three years, our midfield has been a complete a non show. It has been left to only a handful of players time and time again.

Is Caddy, Duncan, Guthrie ever going to take that next step? We really can't say for sure they will. At the moment, they are good footballers but in order to become a force, they have to become stars like Parker, Mitchell and Hannebery are for Sydney. Neale, Hill, Fyfe + Bennell are for Fremantle. Wines, Hartlett, Gray, Wingard are for Port Adelaide. Bontempelli, Dahlhaus, Liberatore, Wallis are for the Dogs. There are plenty of lists with better emerging talent than us at the moment. Most of this is simply due to having access to the best talent in the country via high draft pick selections. Even the weaker teams like Gold Coast, Brisbane, GWS have much more brilliant midfields than Geelong. They simply lack structure through the spine which is why they still linger near the bottom of the ladder.

Anyways, it is obvious we see things very differently in respect to our team. I was like you a couple of years ago but unfortunately, the last few years have turned out to be a much different picture than what I had envisioned. I dunno, maybe you are right crazy . . . perhaps Guthrie, Caddy, Duncan collectively average 25-30 disposals per game going into their sixth seasons just as Bartel, Corey, Ling did?

I don't understand how any supporter can lose faith in the club based on whats happened over the last few years .We have lost far more experience talented than any side in the competition over the past few years and yet only missed the finals once and finished no lower than 10th .To put things into perspective from 2010-2014 Geelong lost 9 All Australian player ,Hawthorn only lost 2.

The club spent a long time contending for a premiership and lost a number of outstanding players which caused an inevitable rebuild .

You have a view of the what things were like before 2007 under Thompson that is not accurate .We were not considered to by most non Geelong supporters as highly talented young side , St Kilda was going to be the next big thing .We were not even a clear second .We also had the reputation of being a soft side and were given the nickname of the hand baggers .My point is that things have not been so bad over the past few years when you consider the club is rebuilding.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Show me a report where he was reported as being interviewed.
I know he was spruiked by the media as a candidate.

And I laughed.

Mate - it was in every mainland paper at the time that they interviewed Lloyd for the Carlton coaching job - made the short list of 4
Carlton went through the proper channels and actually requested Freos consent ( seeing he was under contract) and Freo confirmed that publicly at the time

 

[vinum coupe]

Mate - it was in every mainland paper at the time that they interviewed Lloyd for the Carlton coaching job - made the short list of 4
Carlton went through the proper channels and actually requested Freos consent ( seeing he was under contract) and Freo confirmed that publicly at the time

Ok. Fair enough.

Do you see anything in his skill set that suggests he can coach a playing group?
I don't.

 

[vinum coupe]

I don't understand how any supporter can lose faith in the club based on whats happened over the last few years .We have lost far more experience talented than any side in the competition over the past few years and yet only missed the finals once and finished no lower than 10th .To put things into perspective from 2010-2014 Geelong lost 9 All Australian player ,Hawthorn only lost 2.

The club spent a long time contending for a premiership and lost a number of outstanding players which caused an inevitable rebuild .

You have a view of the what things were like before 2007 under Thompson that is not accurate .We were not considered to by most non Geelong supporters as highly talented young side , St Kilda was going to be the next big thing .We were not even a clear second .We also had the reputation of being a soft side and were given the nickname of the hand baggers .My point is that things have not been so bad over the past few years when you consider the club is rebuilding.

Rubbish. We were flag favourites in 05, 06

 

[Partridge]

Rubbish. We were flag favourites in 05, 06

Perhaps not 2005. But they were in 2006 for sure; they won the pre-season comp, and then thumped Brisbane and North in the opening two rounds.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Rubbish. We were flag favourites in 05, 06

Whats the point ?

Bottom line is that it was far from all smiles while we were rebuilding under Thompson .We had our ups and downs.

 

[vinum coupe]

Whats the point ?

Bottom line is that it was far from all smiles while we were rebuilding under Thompson .We had our ups and downs.

The point is, you continue to use any snippet, comment, false fact, imaginary tale, or real fact that you can to suit your 'crazy' agenda.

 

[Vdubs]

True I found it today that I was wrong about the knee coming back stronger , however most players do not end up like Menzel and continuously reinjuring .

You seem to have a belief based on a few of your posts that Hawthorn are destined for greatness, no side is destined for greatness , sides have success for tangible reasons .A big part of the reason why Hawthorn have had their recent success is because of the great job they have done in keeping their players in great physical condition. This includes not only having a almost fully fit side for 3 finals series in a row , but also keeping their older players in the physical condition of a 25 year old.


Geelong has done plenty of work behind the seen to address our injury problems , we basically have a totally new fitness team.You only have to look at Menzel and Vardy to realize they have made great progress. If they can get Menzel back on the park than they can get the other players
on the park .

Than with Hawthorn you also have to keep in mind that a few years ago they had 2 weaknesses .1 being tall forwards which they fixed by getting lake , 2 being the ruck .They just lost Lake so they can really be exposed down back once again and they have also lost Hale which will weaken their ruck division. You also have to ask the question how much longer can Hodge,Mitchel,Burgoyne and Gibson keep on playing at such a high level for ? eventually the ageing process is going to overpower them , I hope its this year.

I don't have a belief that Hawthorn is destined for greatness, I believe they are a great team, maybe greater than their great team of 80's-early 90's.

 

[Bobby_]

I don't have a belief that Hawthorn is destined for greatness, I believe they are a great team, maybe greater than their great team of 80's-early 90's.

yep, winning this years grand final pretty much seals it for me.
Great football club. If they somehow pull off another one next year . . . bloody hell! What more can you say.

 

[Since 2001]

Back in 2007 Geelong set a goal to go from a good club to a great club ,part of this was to win more premierships every 15 years than any other club , starting from 2005-2019. 1. I am confident we can still do this as we are about to enter a 5 year + premiership window.I also firmly believe we are in a position to become the most successful club in the AFL .

The best 3 clubs in terms of on field performances over recent times has been Hawthorn,Geelong and Sydney .Collingwood and West Coat are have also performed well on the filed .Lets take a close look at how Hawthorn and Sydney have build their success.

Sydney is easy =COLA which is about to go

Hawthorn is a bit more interesting ,while I except they are a very well run club I still think we are better .Lets look at how Hawthorn became an on field powerhouse over the past 10 years .

It all started when they received the following draft picks - 1,2,3,5 and 6 .Yeahp that's right while we had nothing below pick 7, imagine if we had these draft picks ????????

Than once they used these picks to recruit talented young players they became highly appealing to players from other clubs , their whole entire spine almost in their premiership years was build with players from other clubs.The AFL moves at a fast pace , Hawthorn have already started to lose their appeal to attract players from other clubs.When they failed to recruit a mature age recruit his year I said its the beginning of the end .

So Sydney will lose COLA, Hawthorn will never got those early draft picks again and will lose their appeal to attract players from other clubs .Geelong will always have its a great ability to draft and develop players better than ny other club .We will also do better than any other club out of free agency due to our unique geographical location, which will last forever regardless of our ladder position.

Good times ahead for us cats supporters , never forget what a privilege it is to support this club.

Go Cats.

1. I am confident we can still do this as we are about to enter a 5 year + premiership window.I also firmly believe we are in a position to become the most successful club in the AFL. How is geelong entering a 5+ year premiership window? Yes you got dangerfield, but he doesn't make you guys go from bottom 8 to top 4 or 8. Yes you got s. Sellwood, henderson who is 50/50 and zac smith. Can you explain your bizarre reasoning to your hypothesis. Plus you have guys like bartel, enright, lonergan, mackie who have what 1-2 years left and clark who can't get on the field.

2. It all started when they received the following draft picks - 1,2,3,5 and 6 .Yeahp that's right while we had nothing below pick 7, imagine if we had these draft picks ???????? Well thanks for pointing this out. When i think about the word received its means "e given, presented with, or paid" lets think how we got these......hmmmm. Oh yes, trading. So we gave up something to get something from another club. We traded older assets to get young players in through the draft. Geelong could've traded but chose not to, so when you complain about us having high picks look at how we got them.

3. their premiership years was build with players from other clubs. Well done. You know how we got these players through trading and free agency and players whose careers were nearly over and thought to be past their best burgoyne and lake, oh and gibson because north didn't want to pay 1mil over 3 years. Also look at what geelong has done this year......traded and free agency, just like the hawks so that point is invalid.

4. Hawthorn have already started to lose their appeal to attract players from other clubs.When they failed to recruit a mature age recruit this year I said its the beginning of the end. Again another invalid point, the hawks chased no free agent this year, this does not mean we are a destination club. This year was about resigning our young players and making sure that the future of the hawks is still bright with potential.

5. Hawthorn will never got those early draft picks again and will lose their appeal to attract players from other clubs. By stating this your saying that the hawks will stay top 8, ill take that than have to rebuild. haha

6. We will also do better than any other club out of free agency due to our unique geographical location, which will last forever regardless of our ladder position. Surely this is a joke? so if geelong became the new melbourne you think players would still go there because of the geographical location? mate you're as high as can be. Melbourne is just down the road, luckily frawley realised that, now look at him a premiership player.

Go hawks.

 

[00VicWard001]

Whats the point ?

Bottom line is that it was far from all smiles while we were rebuilding under Thompson .We had our ups and downs.

That's correct. Supporters wanted Thompson sacked due to underperformance by the team.

 

[Cattery]

1. I am confident we can still do this as we are about to enter a 5 year + premiership window.I also firmly believe we are in a position to become the most successful club in the AFL. How is geelong entering a 5+ year premiership window? Yes you got dangerfield, but he doesn't make you guys go from bottom 8 to top 4 or 8. Yes you got s. Sellwood, henderson who is 50/50 and zac smith. Can you explain your bizarre reasoning to your hypothesis. Plus you have guys like bartel, enright, lonergan, mackie who have what 1-2 years left and clark who can't get on the field.

2. It all started when they received the following draft picks - 1,2,3,5 and 6 .Yeahp that's right while we had nothing below pick 7, imagine if we had these draft picks ???????? Well thanks for pointing this out. When i think about the word received its means "e given, presented with, or paid" lets think how we got these......hmmmm. Oh yes, trading. So we gave up something to get something from another club. We traded older assets to get young players in through the draft. Geelong could've traded but chose not to, so when you complain about us having high picks look at how we got them.

3. their premiership years was build with players from other clubs. Well done. You know how we got these players through trading and free agency and players whose careers were nearly over and thought to be past their best burgoyne and lake, oh and gibson because north didn't want to pay 1mil over 3 years. Also look at what geelong has done this year......traded and free agency, just like the hawks so that point is invalid.

4. Hawthorn have already started to lose their appeal to attract players from other clubs.When they failed to recruit a mature age recruit this year I said its the beginning of the end. Again another invalid point, the hawks chased no free agent this year, this does not mean we are a destination club. This year was about resigning our young players and making sure that the future of the hawks is still bright with potential.

5. Hawthorn will never got those early draft picks again and will lose their appeal to attract players from other clubs. By stating this your saying that the hawks will stay top 8, ill take that than have to rebuild. haha

6. We will also do better than any other club out of free agency due to our unique geographical location, which will last forever regardless of our ladder position. Surely this is a joke? so if geelong became the new melbourne you think players would still go there because of the geographical location? mate you're as high as can be. Melbourne is just down the road, luckily frawley realised that, now look at him a premiership player.

Go hawks.

Piss off mate, we don't want opposition supporters coming on here and talking common sense.

Hawks still the side to beat unfortunately, as much as it pains me to say so.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The point is, you continue to use any snippet, comment, false fact, imaginary tale, or real fact that you can to suit your 'crazy' agenda.

In other words you got no idea what your talking about .

All rebuilds have their ups an downs , the idea that your recruit a stack of talented young players and watch them develop with smiles is a fairytale.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

1. I am confident we can still do this as we are about to enter a 5 year + premiership window.I also firmly believe we are in a position to become the most successful club in the AFL. How is geelong entering a 5+ year premiership window? Yes you got dangerfield, but he doesn't make you guys go from bottom 8 to top 4 or 8. Yes you got s. Sellwood, henderson who is 50/50 and zac smith. Can you explain your bizarre reasoning to your hypothesis. Plus you have guys like bartel, enright, lonergan, mackie who have what 1-2 years left and clark who can't get on the field.

2. It all started when they received the following draft picks - 1,2,3,5 and 6 .Yeahp that's right while we had nothing below pick 7, imagine if we had these draft picks ???????? Well thanks for pointing this out. When i think about the word received its means "e given, presented with, or paid" lets think how we got these......hmmmm. Oh yes, trading. So we gave up something to get something from another club. We traded older assets to get young players in through the draft. Geelong could've traded but chose not to, so when you complain about us having high picks look at how we got them.

3. their premiership years was build with players from other clubs. Well done. You know how we got these players through trading and free agency and players whose careers were nearly over and thought to be past their best burgoyne and lake, oh and gibson because north didn't want to pay 1mil over 3 years. Also look at what geelong has done this year......traded and free agency, just like the hawks so that point is invalid.

4. Hawthorn have already started to lose their appeal to attract players from other clubs.When they failed to recruit a mature age recruit this year I said its the beginning of the end. Again another invalid point, the hawks chased no free agent this year, this does not mean we are a destination club. This year was about resigning our young players and making sure that the future of the hawks is still bright with potential.

5. Hawthorn will never got those early draft picks again and will lose their appeal to attract players from other clubs. By stating this your saying that the hawks will stay top 8, ill take that than have to rebuild. haha

6. We will also do better than any other club out of free agency due to our unique geographical location, which will last forever regardless of our ladder position. Surely this is a joke? so if geelong became the new melbourne you think players would still go there because of the geographical location? mate you're as high as can be. Melbourne is just down the road, luckily frawley realised that, now look at him a premiership player.

Go hawks.

You were so bad that the AFL had to give you special assistance in the form of not 1 but 2 priority draft picks.

Guess who is responsible for

 

[Bobby_]

That's correct. Supporters wanted Thompson sacked due to underperformance by the team.

It came very suddenly though.
I don't recall that much angst toward him in 2005 but after the appalling year that followed, that is when supporters quickly turned on him.

Regards to Scott. He's been given a lot more time but supporters are now slowly but surely beginning to feel unsettled about his coaching. If he produces another stinker next year, he's gonsky.

 

[Partridge]

In other words you got no idea what your talking about .

All rebuilds have their ups an downs , the idea that your recruit a stack of talented young players and watch them develop with smiles is a fairytale.

I'll happily leave fairy tales to you. They seem to be your area of expertise.

Recruiting young players and developing them is also exactly what Geelong did from especially the 1999 and 2001 drafts.

 

[Partridge]

Not 1 single person in the media has ever questioned Scotts coaching ability and everyone who has worked with him speaks highly of him and most Geelong supporters rathe , its just a few clueless posters on bigfooty who have a problem with Scott .Their opinion is worthless.

All opinions on here are worthless.

So is Scott's finals record after 2011. Pity, as he's such an excellent coach.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

It came very suddenly though.
I don't recall that much angst toward him in 2005 but after the appalling year that followed, that is when supporters quickly turned on him.

Regards to Scott. He's been given a lot more time but supporters are now slowly but surely beginning to feel unsettled about his coaching. If he produces another stinker next year, he's gonsky.

People had questions on Thompsons coaching ability before 2004 .Going into 2002 he was equal favorite with sports bet to be the first coach sacked.

Don't forget either that the club had a disappointing second half in 2005 , we were 2nd on the ladder and ended up missing the top 4.I remember Robert Walls saying that Geelong would be best of missing the finals because we would they would embarrass themselves.

Thompson had 7 years to build a premiership side ,Scott has only had 4 so far . Scott has also proven that he has the ability to coach a team that has the quality too a premiership. Whenever the media talk about coaches under pressure Chris Scott never gets a mention .

 

[The rabbi]

yep, winning this years grand final pretty much seals it for me.
Great football club. If they somehow pull off another one next year . . . bloody hell! What more can you say.

I'm sure that some sad sack deluded Geelong supporter will find a way to argue that Geelong has had a better history than Hawthorn since the turn of the millennium.

 

[Cataholic]

I don't really care whether we're THE powerhouse, but I enjoy the fact that Geelong IS now a powerhouse after lagging behind others for so many years.

Like everyone, I want the club to be dominant, but I also understand that it represents a collection of human endeavour, which is never perfect. There'll be highs, and there'll be lows. But you know what, that makes the highs sweeter, and strengthens my admiration of the club as I observe its battles with the lows.

And I couldn't care less about Hawthorn. We're making our own history, and our legacy as a founding member of the VFL / AFL, and the achievements against greater odds, make me far prouder than what they've done.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'm sure that some sad sack deluded Geelong supporter will find a way to argue that Geelong has had a better history than Hawthorn since the turn of the millennium.

They have won 4 , we have won 3 premierships . However we won our premierships without a draft pick below 7 while they had pciks 1,2,3,5 and 6.They than were able to attract players from other clubs because they had a talented young list.

They are a well run club but we are a better run club.

 

[MightyHawks]

Interesting thread... there's a few concepts here. Lets break it down

1. Will Hawthorn decline - are they capable of winning any more flags this decade
Is it possible to answer yes twice here?
With Lake & Hale both retiring this year and 1 or 2 more to follow at the end of 2016 then there is certainly a war chest to recruit 1 or 2 free agents or kids fleeing GWS/GC if they were keen to play for the Hawks

I think the loss of Lake could be a big one though interestingly he won't be as much of a loss against Richmond and Port Adelaide - two of the sides that are tipped to be contenders over the next couple of years. Frawley is our best matchup for Kennedy too. Lakes loss will be most noticeable against Sydney, Collingwood and Geelong - will that matter if none of those sides are in contention in 2016 which brings us to...

2. How will Geelongs fare in 2016 with their new recruits
In case you hadn't realised... Dangerfield is a gun. As teams won't tag both Danger and Selwood then they both might be better players together than they were on their own.
Ok hands up who thought I was referring to Scott Selwood there? No one - so no need to ask whether Scott Selwood will improve your side
Smith - tough one here. How many out of Clark, Blicavs, Smith, Stanley, Vardy are playing in the team. Is Smith best 22 or depth? I'd think Stanley and Blicavs are best 22. How many spots are the others fighting for?
Henderson - is an upgrade on Rivers
The $64 question is will the improvement there merely counter the decline in the output of senior players and retirements from last year or will they actually improve the side?
Also if sides like Sydney and Fremantle are on the slide then Geelong might only need a slight improvement to sneak into the top 4 in 2016

3. Where are Geelong in the medium term - is there enough improvement in the kids to offset the looming retirements
That Geelong has already traded its 2016 first round pick can't be ignored (though I think geelongcrazy has overlooked this)
Would it be fair to say that the 2016 Geelong side will be better than the 2017 side? More players will decline over the following 12 months and no first round pick coming in

4. Will Geelongs team be better than Hawthorns over the next few years?
The assumptions I've seen in the thread so far are that Hawthorn won't do any more recruiting and the older players are about to go off a cliff.
Where is Hawthorn 2015 compared to the Geelong era. Is Hawthorn 2015 = Geelong 2011? If so then there might still be 3 more years of top 4 finishing with a chance to win another flag

5. Can Geelong win 2 flags by the end of the decade
I'll say no to this one. Unless you recruit another couple of Dangerfields I think there's too many older players still on the list

 

[Partridge]

They are a well run club but we are a better run club.

Based on what exactly?