Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[citizen-erased]

We definitely need mids, they just aren’t doing it for me in this draft. If Wardlaw was 5cm taller I’d be keen but we’ve seen it so often with the small mids that are hyper competitive at junior level fail to make the adjustment.

Also Sheezel will be a forward mid, he has no problem finding the pill, only averaging a touch less than Wardlaw at NAB level.

Kinda hard with the Daveys but think the play would have been pick downgrade and try to take multiple players in the teens.

Im up for a couple of MSD cracks at the competitive mids. See if we can't shake a Newcombe or two out via Carmichael, Culley, Voss, Maher
tbh, I'd take 3 shots at it if we had to. if just one comes off, that opens our options up come trade/draft time.

Im ok with Sheezel and Davey as fwd/mid's given it's less about flankers being big bodied mids, and more impact forwards being able to play midfield too.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

I reckon too much attention is being paid to the midfield. While it does require work and a bit more depth of options, it was the driving force behind our push to finals last year.

Stringer was there to support Merrett and Parish, but we still lacked enough quality coming from the second tier in Sheil, McGrath to be better than what we want.

Merrett and Parish still have 5+ good years in them. Hobbs can come on quickly. We need to find that workhorse, bigger body extra depth.

Trading out our best mids to try and replace with another type that may or may not work seems ludicrous to me. They are great at what they do. Lets complement them. We are close if Hobbs and Caldwell come on. If we can somehow draft another decent one ( Hawks got Newcombe quickly and he's ready to go ) then we are pretty close.

Basically the only thing that needs to change is we need better from Sheil and McGrath or they need to be replaced.

 

[katana]

it was the driving force behind our push to finals last year.

with every player in it (except shiel) having career-best seasons, we managed so sneak into an elimination final flogging.

 

[Lore]

with every player in it (except shiel) having career-best seasons, we managed so sneak into an elimination final flogging.

While I agree with the general sentiment [in that this supposedly great midfield got us to a final where we got flogged], it's not true to say they all had career best seasons and I don't think hyperbole is helpful.

• McGrath had a PCL for the last third of the season.
• Stringer missed preseason and the first two games with an achilles injury and then another couple of games with a hamstring heading into the bye. He didn't have a block of training before he came back and was underdone, played forward for 2-3 games every time he came in because he didn't have the fitness base to do many midfield minutes.
• Shiel as mentioned was out most of the year with a knee injury and surgery rehab.
• Caldwell missed basically the entire season with a hamstring.
• Draper missed the first half of the season with a syndesmosis and had 21 games under his belt by the end of it, so you had Wright and Phillips holding it down from R3 to the bye.
• Langford missing the last quarter of the season as well.
• Durham only joined the club mid-year and played his first game in R18.

Of those that remain, Cox was dropped a couple of times, Clarke was dropped a couple of times and also missed a bunch of games with injury (then got delisted), Ham was dropped. Perkins was in and out of the midfield but mostly played forward so idk if we can put much down to his contribution.

Parish was widely lauded, and both he and Merrett got AA, so you could say those two had career best seasons.

Even with them all fit I don't see a top 4 midfield but if everything went right there is potential to be a bit better than they were last year.

The main problem I see is that you need to plan for things not to always go right.

 

[BrunoV]

I reckon too much attention is being paid to the midfield. While it does require work and a bit more depth of options, it was the driving force behind our push to finals last year.

Stringer was there to support Merrett and Parish, but we still lacked enough quality coming from the second tier in Sheil, McGrath to be better than what we want.

Merrett and Parish still have 5+ good years in them. Hobbs can come on quickly. We need to find that workhorse, bigger body extra depth.

Trading out our best mids to try and replace with another type that may or may not work seems ludicrous to me. They are great at what they do. Lets complement them. We are close if Hobbs and Caldwell come on. If we can somehow draft another decent one ( Hawks got Newcombe quickly and he's ready to go ) then we are pretty close.

Basically the only thing that needs to change is we need better from Sheil and McGrath or they need to be replaced.

Allowed to front run.

St Kilda, Carlton, Fremantle and Collingwood all improved.

Our midfield is easily bottom 4, at its best.

 

[Mikevk123]

A lot of people are undervaluing Parish here. He’s a ball hunter and goes and gets the ball. His defensive efforts aren’t great but he’s by far our best contested midfielder. For a bloke his size he’s a jet, he’s similar but less damaging than Tom Mitchell at his best.

 

[Mikevk123]

Add two of Ben Keayes, Josh Dunkley

5

Josh Dunkley

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

13.7

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

,
Callum Mills

14

Callum Mills

Age

27

Ht

188cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

7.4

5star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

D

18.4

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

3.4

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

17.0

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

1.2

4star

and William Drew and you’d see a difference.


Martin Dunkley Langford
Bryan Merrett Parish
I/C: Drew, Hobbs, Caldwell

 

[Mikevk123]

Our lack of small forwards is worrying. Loosing both Tippa and Mozzie in twelve months has put us back. Thought Ned maybe deserved another year as well. He’s playing well in the VFL.

 

[BrunoV]

A lot of people are undervaluing Parish here. He’s a ball hunter and goes and gets the ball. His defensive efforts aren’t great but he’s by far our best contested midfielder. For a bloke his size he’s a jet, he’s similar but less damaging than Tom Mitchell at his best.

You've perfectly summed up the problem.

A ball hunter who cant absorb physical pressure to slow the game, that is inherently what being a contested ball winner is, but who's not as damaging as the good version.

We've been through this before with Heppell. Good sides don't really play accumulators.

We won't be able to balance the Merrett and Parish midfield because neither can absorb physical heat and neither is truly an outside player because they're not great runners.

In any event, our wingmen are Durham, Cox, Martin and Langford.

Why would we even bother trying to turn Parish or Merrett into a post 2017 Cotchin? Sentiment is about the only reason. You can get that job done for half the price.

 

[faible]

You've perfectly summed up the problem.

A ball hunter who cant absorb physical pressure to slow the game, that is inherently what being a contested ball winner is, but who's not as damaging as the good version.

We've been through this before with Heppell. Good sides don't really play accumulators.

We won't be able to balance the Merrett and Parish midfield because neither can absorb physical heat and neither is truly an outside player because they're not great runners.

In any event, our wingmen are Durham, Cox, Martin and Langford.

Why would we even bother trying to turn Parish or Merrett into a post 2017 Cotchin? Sentiment is about the only reason. You can get that job done for half the price.

No reason Parish can't be post-2017 Cotchin.

Not sure why you'd try to turn Merrett in to that, given Merrett can actually kick.

 

[BuffDog]

If we can somehow engineer a trade for Hopper and convince Brayshaw to come ($$$$$$) then we could effectively resolve most of our size issue over one preseason.

Our mid rotation would be:

Inside:

Parish
Hopper
Hobbs
Caldwell

Outside/general mid:

Merrett
Brayshaw
Perkins
McGrath
Shiel (surplus?)
Snelling

Wing:

Martin
Langford
Durham

Maybe it’s fanciful stuff but this would much more balanced and competitive. We’d need to decide if we want to draft another mid with our first pick or go for the KPF we also probably need.

Im also not in the camp that thinks we should trade out all our current mids but no player is irreplaceable, we should be open to offers.

 

[bombadeer]

I reckon too much attention is being paid to the midfield. While it does require work and a bit more depth of options, it was the driving force behind our push to finals last year.

Weird coming from you Kelvin - but I think you are grossly overestimating 2021. Soft draw, sneak into finals off the back of an extraordinary second half of the year by Stringer, then out without a whimper in the qualifying final when the heat is on.

Our midfield is defensively weak and wilts under pressure. It’s an indictment on the midfield that such a statement is not even in dispute, right?

We need to rebuild it, Parish has currency, is defensively weak, on a short contract - he’s the obvious trade choice of you’re going to get serious about it.

 

[Mikevk123]

We shouldn’t let either parish or Merrett go. We need to complement them with more defensive sounded big bodied midfielders.

 

[Nifft]

We shouldn’t let either parish or Merrett go. We need to complement them with more defensive sounded big bodied midfielders.

I'd be happy for Shiel to go. And for one of Parish or McGrath to be traded, or McGrath to move to the backline permanently. I wouldn't trade Merrett though.

 

[bombreys]

I'd be happy for Shiel to go. And for one of Parish or McGrath to be traded, or McGrath to move to the backline permanently. I wouldn't trade Merrett though.

Think the issue is that Shiel gets us nothing in return. McGrath probably gets you a 2nd. Agree in that I wouldn't trade Merrett.

Parish would have to be the one, he has value and I don't think it'd kill us to move him. Would really even out our midfield if we sent him out and bring in a bigger, defensive minded guy.

 

[bombadeer]

Would not trade McGrath - could be the best small defender in the league, and he looks a completely different player behind the ball.

 

[TheWeapon]

I reckon too much attention is being paid to the midfield. While it does require work and a bit more depth of options, it was the driving force behind our push to finals last year.

Stringer was there to support Merrett and Parish, but we still lacked enough quality coming from the second tier in Sheil, McGrath to be better than what we want.

Merrett and Parish still have 5+ good years in them. Hobbs can come on quickly. We need to find that workhorse, bigger body extra depth.

Trading out our best mids to try and replace with another type that may or may not work seems ludicrous to me. They are great at what they do. Lets complement them. We are close if Hobbs and Caldwell come on. If we can somehow draft another decent one ( Hawks got Newcombe quickly and he's ready to go ) then we are pretty close.

Basically the only thing that needs to change is we need better from Sheil and McGrath or they need to be replaced.

Our midfield has constantly been protected by playing an extra at the stoppages. Opposition gets a +1 in defense and then runs the ball out easily in transition against our slow forward line. Makes Parish and Merrett getting 40 each (30 uncontested) meaningless.

If we played without an extra mid around stoppages I suspect we would get blown off the park (but would love to see it trialled, at 2-8 why not as the season is busted, and at least it will truly expose the problem). We need stronger contested mids to be able to compete in there without robbing our forward line

 

[Yoda_]

Allowed to front run.

St Kilda, Carlton, Fremantle and Collingwood all improved.

Our midfield is easily bottom 4, at its best.

I don't think this rings true at all. IT is about the sum of all parts and right now as a collective they are running at about a 3/10. Last year was maybe a 7/10.


System really does ring true and ours is horrendous with whatever minor changes have been made to it.

 

[BrunoV]

I don't think this rings true at all. IT is about the sum of all parts and right now as a collective they are running at about a 3/10. Last year was maybe a 7/10.


System really does ring true and ours is horrendous with whatever minor changes have been made to it.

Which teams have a weaker set of ball winners?

What part of the system breaks down such that the whole thing breaks down due to on injury?

The system is supposed to protect you from that injury not be subject to it.

 

[Yoda_]

Which teams have a weaker set of ball winners?

What part of the system breaks down such that the whole thing breaks down due to on injury?

The system is supposed to protect you from that injury not be subject to it.

Losing a Jake Stringer calibre player is going to mess with any groups system.

fwiw, you asked who has a weaker set of ball winners

North
Adel
West Coast
Hawthorn
Gold Coast

Ball winners is a very big difference to better group of midfielders



Our system is flawed, we cannot simply replace one soldier with a like - for - like replacement. That is where the disappointment comes from imho

 

[ant555]

I will say it again. Not having a ruck that can take 5 plus marks a game kills us as much as anything going on the the small brigade.

 

[BrunoV]

Losing a Jake Stringer calibre player is going to mess with any groups system.

fwiw, you asked who has a weaker set of ball winners

North
Adel
West Coast
Hawthorn
Gold Coast

Ball winners is a very big difference to better group of midfielders



Our system is flawed, we cannot simply replace one soldier with a like - for - like replacement. That is where the disappointment comes from imho

West Coast is the only side I'd concede.

 

[Yoda_]

West Coast is the only side I'd concede.

That's ok, all down to opinion. I'm as content with my observations as you are with yours.

 

[ghostdog]

I will say it again. Not having a ruck that can take 5 plus marks a game kills us as much as anything going on the the small brigade.

It has been my annoyance all year. People love Draper's physicality, and it is great, but the guy struggles to mark the ball which forces us to send Peter Wright up the ground more. Unfortunately, Draper can't mark in the forward fifty either.

Losing Stringer and Jones, then, has been horrendous.

 

[Lore]

CBAs and centre clearances by quarter from today’s game.

Phillips doing most of the ruck work in Q1, Draper doing most of it in Q2, even split in Q3, and only one centre bounce for Q4 which Phillips took.

Of 19 total centre bounces, Perkins attended 16 of them, Parish 14, Merrett 12, Shiel 10, Caldwell 4, Waterman 1.