List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Bearded Clam]

That exact guy!

Forget his All Australian Squad inclusion as a midfielder, best and fairest last year and 16 Brownlow votes!

The coaches with a combined 137 games coached and a winning percentage of 26% didn't rate him in one game. Yup it means that he isn't AFL quality.

The midfielder that is currently 6th in tackles, 2nd in disposals per game, 4th in contested possessions per game and 4th in clearances per game isn't AFL standard?

There are a lot of issues at our club, but the player Rory Laird is not one of them. He would be a walk up into every single team in the AFL.

I don't know what's worse - You and the Bearded Clams thoughts on Laird or Mathew Nicks's coaching.

“There are a lot of issues at our club, but the player Rory Laird is not one of them. He would be a walk up into every single team in the AFL.”

Biggest load of deluded horseshit I have read for a while.

He might make the starting 22 of every single team in the AFL as a half back flanker maybe.. but he wouldnt be among the top 3 main midfielders in every single team in the AFL..

You see this “Laird or Keays would be a walk up in every single team in the AFL” bullshit line every now and then from a few of the apologists for the three amigos and its nothing more than a deceptive angle they desperately take to try and make keays and laird sound like gun midfielders.

Keays, Laird and crouch are the Crows top 3, main “go to” midfielders.. stop slyly trying to compare them to the top 22 players at each club and saying “they’d be walk up starters in those” and instead compare apples with apples and ask whether any of keays, laird and crouch would replace any of the top 3 “go too” midfielders at each club in the AFL..

Look at it in this “apples for apples” way and it very quickly becomes clear just how garbage they are.. and just how very few clubs top 3 midfields these lads would be “walk up starters” in!.

The crows have possibly the worst midfield in the comp.. and laird, keays and crouch are the MAIN components of that midfield..

when looking at the fixture and seeing their next game was against the crows..
You can be guaranteed nearly all the other clubs would salivate at the thought of having to play against these three and would not be thinking “gee, I wish we had one of those spuds as one of out top 3 midfielders!”..

 

[AFC979810]

“There are a lot of issues at our club, but the player Rory Laird is not one of them. He would be a walk up into every single team in the AFL.”

Biggest load of deluded horseshit I have read for a while.

He might make the starting 22 of every single team in the AFL as a half back flanker maybe.. but he wouldnt be among the top 3 main midfielders in every single team in the AFL..

You see this “Laird or Keays would be a walk up in every single team in the AFL” bullshit line every now and then from a few of the apologists for the three amigos and its nothing more than a deceptive angle they desperately take to try and make keays and laird sound like gun midfielders.

Keays, Laird and crouch are the Crows top 3, main “go to” midfielders.. stop slyly trying to compare them to the top 22 players at each club and saying “they’d be walk up starters in those” and instead compare apples with apples and ask whether any of keays, laird and crouch would replace any of the top 3 “go too” midfielders at each club in the AFL..

Look at it in this “apples for apples” way and it very quickly becomes clear just how garbage they are.. and just how very few clubs top 3 midfields these lads would be “walk up starters” in!.

The crows have possibly the worst midfield in the comp.. and laird, keays and crouch are the MAIN components of that midfield..

when looking at the fixture and seeing their next game was against the crows..
You can be guaranteed nearly all the other clubs would salivate at the thought of having to play against these three and would not be thinking “gee, I wish we had one of those spuds as one of out top 3 midfielders!”..

You don't think a competent coach would get more out of Laird? You don't think other clubs would run him through the midfield?

You quite simply don't get 16 Brownlow votes and make the top 40 All Australian squad as a midfielder - if you are SANFL level.

 

[Jetwa5h]

Rankine is progressing beautifully

Already playing great football and has another level or two to jump

The exact time you want to go hard at someone if you rate them

Why would Rankine want to come to us though, choice of crumbing at the feet of Ben King or if he has been watching our forward line for the couple of years being left one out against a defender in the goal square

 

[AFC979810]

Why would Rankine want to come to us though, choice of crumbing at the feet of Ben King or if he has been watching our forward line for the couple of years being left one out against a defender in the goal square

I heard he wants to play with Tex*.

*thats why he is staying at Gold Coast

 

[DJ75]

Why would Rankine want to come to us though, choice of crumbing at the feet of Ben King or if he has been watching our forward line for the couple of years being left one out against a defender in the goal square

Personally I think he's looking forward to having the ball sat on his head after a bail out kick down the wing where he is the target because our 3 key forwards are all back in the F50.

 

[70lethal]

Truthfully why would we expect our list management and drafting be better in 2022 than the period of 2016-2021?
Heads should roll over 2019 from list management to drafting to player development.
If one goes back to the 2019 draft thread you can see for almost 300 pages there was basically no talk or suggestion from any amateurs that we should take McAsey.
Take midfielders before KPD.
I banged on how WA lads generally slide and become bargains.
Pick a couple of guys over 180cm.
Due to being shafted by AFL with priority picks a serious option should be to trade down as Carlton and Geelong wanted to trade up and GC had picks to blow.
Hamish came out and said before the draft you cant have to many midfielders so you would think it was pretty simple stuff.

Hindsight but almost all options were better than the one we took unless our player development is so deplorable then they should be gone yesterday.

I will never bookmark a post again because these upset me now.

Resource - 2019 Draft Watch (we have picks 6 24 25 39 46) Resource - 2019 Draft Watch (we have picks 6 24 25 39 46)

 

[WeedsMullet84]

We have DE issues ....and you want Dunkley ? .....he would just add further to our disposal woes

Definite No on Dunkley ....Definite Yes on JHF

This midfield needs a Josh Kelly type player ....and certainly a fit, confident Milera

Is it somehow completely lost on this boards posters that we not only have DE issues because of the quality of defender down back, but also the sheer amount of times the ball gets in there?

I implore you all to play around with this page, there's a table 'for' and 'against'. (hover over the abbreviations key on the right hand side for specifics)

AFL Tables - 2022 Team Stats & Season Highs

It's not rocket science to see that our ladder position has an almost direct correlation to our Inside 50 count, both for and against.

We dropped Frampton (yes who was terrible) after conceding a Carlton club record 74 inside 50's. A Team who is currently sitting 2nd on the ladder for contested marks. What hope do any of our defenders have?

Contested marking is one of our own major concerns, where we sit dead last. It speaks to lack of effort/speed in getting to leads, the quality of the delivery itself, and our ability to muscle opponents off the ball. It's a mixture of lack of experience, playing players out of position, panic kicking out of the contest, and basic skill deficiencies.

 

[Jirkago75]

Same applies...

There is 1 star midfielder at the Dogs currently Bontompelli, Bailey Smith headed that way if he stays on the rails....Dogs most effective pure midfielder is still Liberatore when fit.

I agree with you, stats are rubbish. The dogs are a handball happy team that have a lot of high possession players who aren’t very damaging. They are all the same bar Bont and Smith, though I think due to injury and from the bony has been average this year.

We need attacking midfield players

 

[Thetrader15]

Is it somehow completely lost on this boards posters that we not only have DE issues because of the quality of defender down back, but also the sheer amount of times the ball gets in there?

I implore you all to play around with this page, there's a table 'for' and 'against'. (hover over the abbreviations key on the right hand side for specifics)

AFL Tables - 2022 Team Stats & Season Highs

It's not rocket science to see that our ladder position has an almost direct correlation to our Inside 50 count, both for and against.

We dropped Frampton (yes who was terrible) after conceding a Carlton club record 74 inside 50's. A Team who is currently sitting 2nd on the ladder for contested marks. What hope do any of our defenders have?

Contested marking is one of our own major concerns, where we sit dead last. It speaks to lack of effort/speed in getting to leads, the quality of the delivery itself, and our ability to muscle opponents off the ball. It's a mixture of lack of experience, playing players out of position, panic kicking out of the contest, and basic skill deficiencies.

Wouldn't our contested marking opportunities be even lower if we had better separation from defenders, kicked better to leads or went to less contested situations?

interestingly Port are 2nd bottom on contested marks. The stats I prefer are differentials, so weather and ground are taken out of it...that said, it's clearly a weakness of ours.

 

[Mutineer]

Wouldn't our contested marking opportunities be even lower if we had better separation from defenders, kicked better to leads or went to less contested situations?

interestingly Port are 2nd bottom on contested marks. The stats I prefer are differentials, so weather and ground are taken out of it...that said, it's clearly a weakness of ours.

Our contested markers in 2022..

1. Reilly O'Brien

2. Tex Walker

3. Riley Thilthorpe.

 

[Canuck_Crow]

After reading through this thread, listening to rowie and thinking about the current situation. I am shit scared that the club thinks they are not only on the right path but close to a breakthrough. Honestly any discussion about bringing in semi mature recruits at the expense of draft picks is bloody ridiculous, the club has no A grade midfielders coming through (soligo is decent but it would be a brave person to say he is going to be A grade) the forward line is spluttering and the skills are deplorable. I would be fine for some decent mature age recruits (free agents) to in still standards. But we are so far off it is scary.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Never any doubt, this was happening ....

 

[Danger in Texas]

Never any doubt, this was happening ....

View attachment 1430686

Rankine soon to follow

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Rankine soon to follow

Yes, no doubt .....not sure why people continue to speculate on players that are obviously staying .....Luko, in particular, was so far removed from our list needs, it was laughable

Plus ....Luko has been absolutely meh, the last couple of years ....really poor contested game, and for a tall, that's disasterous

 

[jackster83]

Never any doubt, this was happening ....

View attachment 1430686

Nice work by the Suns to turn that club around.

The draft concessions were OTT though.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The draft concessions were OTT though.

Agree ....concessions were unwarranted

If they're going to give Atkins a 4 year contract .....don't put your hand out, when it blows up in your face

 

[70lethal]

After reading through this thread, listening to rowie and thinking about the current situation. I am s**t scared that the club thinks they are not only on the right path but close to a breakthrough. Honestly any discussion about bringing in semi mature recruits at the expense of draft picks is bloody ridiculous, the club has no A grade midfielders coming through (soligo is decent but it would be a brave person to say he is going to be A grade) the forward line is spluttering and the skills are deplorable. I would be fine for some decent mature age recruits (free agents) to in still standards. But we are so far off it is scary.

I agree but the flaw in your thinking is that we have used the following 15 picks in the last 7 drafts 2, 6, 6, 9, 11, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17, 24, 25, 28, 28 and 30 and none start in the centre square. 15 top 30 picks so how many more do they need to get it right to find 1 midfielder worth starting in the centre square?

I have no issues starting with Schoenberg, Berry, Hately, Dawson etc

I think they need to go get a uber premium mid, one who can lead a young group otherwise we will be doing a carlton with rebuild 2, 3 and 4.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I agree but the flaw in your thinking is that we have used the following 15 picks in the last 7 drafts 2, 6, 6, 9, 11, 11, 12, 15, 16, 17, 24, 25, 28, 28 and 30 and none start in the centre square. 15 top 30 picks so how many more do they need to get it right to find 1 midfielder worth starting in the centre square?

I have no issues starting with Schoenberg, Berry, Hately, Dawson etc

I think they need to go get a uber premium mid, one who can lead a young group otherwise we will be doing a carlton with rebuild 2, 3 and 4.

This is depressing. You are right. Not one starting mid in all those picks.

 

[Gtowncrow]

Our contested markers in 2022..

1. Reilly O'Brien

2. Tex Walker

3. Riley Thilthorpe.

CM per game or gross marks? Surely Dawson is miles ahead of TT.

 

[Big Crow]

Brisbane vs Melbourne tonight. How many of our first round draft picks would be capable of any of Melbourne’s highlights from this game. How many would be capable of doing the types of things we’re seeing from the Dees even once, let alone sustaining that level of quality across four quarters.

Rachele, and maybe Thilthorpe if he develops as we all hope he will. That’s it.

This is everything you need to know about our drafting, and if you expand the question to our whole squad then it tells you everything you need to know about our list management.

We’re miles and miles off the pace, and we’ve hardly done a thing in the past five years to build towards a premiership team.

Half a decade out of finals and we’re essentially at ground zero in terms of building a team that can contend.

 

[Jirkago75]

I'm sorry Rory Laird is one of the problems

Laird, Keays and M Crouch had more than 100 touches between them against GC for less than 800m gained

Our midfield are stat collectors with zero impact or hurt in the opposition and Laird is a part of this problem.

It's a massive worry when your best mid continues to rack up high numbers but has limited impact on the result of the game, and although he gathers these numbers opposition coaches refuse to tag him for the very no hurt factor reason.

On CPH2211 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Agree and disagree. When Laird get the ball and looks up, who’s he kicking to, Tex or small forwards who have been useless and Tex is double teamed. If we had a functioning forward line, our midfield will look better but with Rowe, McHenry and Murphy. They don’t lead or even create a contest. Let’s wait and see before we burn a good player like Laird.

 

[Mutineer]

CM per game or gross marks? Surely Dawson is miles ahead of TT.

I clearly stated CONTESTED marks

 

[1990crow]

Agree and disagree. When Laird get the ball and looks up, who’s he kicking to, Tex or small forwards who have been useless and Tex is double teamed. If we had a functioning forward line, our midfield will look better but with Rowe, McHenry and Murphy. They don’t lead or even create a contest. Let’s wait and see before we burn a good player like Laird.

Disagree. The inside 50 stats suggest players like Laird fail to link up with other players before it goes forward.
It’s not the forward lines fault where we are at.
It’s purely midfield.

 

[Jirkago75]

Disagree. The inside 50 stats suggest players like Laird fail to link up with other players before it goes forward.
It’s not the forward lines fault where we are at.
It’s purely midfield.

How many times does our forwards stand in front of their direct opponent and how many times does the opposition team take intercept marks. Besides Tex and MacAdam, all our other forwards are crap. They don’t lead at the ball either and give the midfielders no options.
I think Laird is ok but the mix is crap, crouch is awful and Keays is having a poor month.

Maybe your right and the forwards don’t lead because the midfield are bad by foot but I think Laird has the talent to keep going but the others don’t

 

[Gtowncrow]

I clearly stated CONTESTED marks

I'll reframe the question. Is your list a percentage of contested mark per game or the season 2022 total of contested marks?

I'm not an idiot and I was assuming you aren't either.