Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

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citizen-erased said:
I'd argue size is our 2nd issue after hard running.

We are too conditional as a side, whereas Geelong just don't let up. Case in point, their GF against the 2nd best system in the game in the Swans.
We may as well be playing a different sport to those two.

There's a few on the market who could help
Dunkley - Self motivated, competitive, good inside and can hit the scoreboard
De Goey - Effectively the 70% midfield time to Stringer's 30%. Perfect rotations
Graham - I'd bring him in and make him captain. Was dumb not drafting him in the first place.
Bowes - Classy kick, strong and tall...and brings with him 7 which brings Clarke into the equation as a perfect compliment to Hobbs.

But I don't think we're chances for any of them. They'd be relatively low cost too I imagine.
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Well DeGoey has re-signed with Collingwood and Dunkley has already requested a trade to Brisbane... so I'd say they're off the table.

We should be going hard for Bowes as it's a deal we're well equipped to maximise - a player who could legitimately play in our midfield plus a pick we need plus the ability to absorb the salary entirely without any issues.

Graham I'd hope we've asked questions of, but given he's been spotted at Port Adelaide, is from Adelaide, and that they actually have a coach, I'd think they'd be the front-runner.
 
owen87 said:
Well DeGoey has re-signed with Collingwood and Dunkley has already requested a trade to Brisbane... so I'd say they're off the table.

We should be going hard for Bowes as it's a deal we're well equipped to maximise - a player who could legitimately play in our midfield plus a pick we need plus the ability to absorb the salary entirely without any issues.

Graham I'd hope we've asked questions of, but given he's been spotted at Port Adelaide, is from Adelaide, and that they actually have a coach, I'd think they'd be the front-runner.
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De Goey still hasn't signed, but yep - that's largely my point
Dunkley should have been on our radar given 2020. Once we went full Essington, that was dead in the water.
Graham likely sees Port the lesser of the steps down from Richmond
Bowes sounds like he's keener on Geelong.
 
citizen-erased said:
De Goey still hasn't signed, but yep - that's largely my point
Dunkley should have been on our radar given 2020. Once we went full Essington, that was dead in the water.
Graham likely sees Port the lesser of the steps down from Richmond
Bowes sounds like he's keener on Geelong.
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I saw eth say last night he'd re-signed, not sure what his source was.

Dunkley was a tough sell given our season versus Brisbane.

Bowes is still TBC, Geelong seem to be associated with half the players in the AFL right now but there's no indication they have any room to absorb his salary as-is.

Graham could see it as stay at Richmond or go 'home', we don't really know enough, and Port not being a shit-show help.

Bowes is the one we should be selling hard, GCS would want us to be the takers given we can take the entire salary hit and Bowes has as much or more chance of midfield minutes with us than he does Geelong.
 

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ant555 said:
Zero hunger ?
If he had zero hunger he would have chucked it in 5 or 6 times in the VFL when he was beaten early in the ruck but kept going all day and ended up winning the contest.
He is a classic ruck. He is 21. Only the absolute super star rucks do it early on. On top of that he spent the first two years having to deal with limited VFL games and playing 14 a side scratch matches used to keep fitness levels up and did not even ruck in some of them but actually played FB.
I agree has to start taking more marks but as a comparison Bryan average 3.6 marks in the VFL this season. In 2019 before he got injured Draper average 2.4.
Agree 100% he has to keep finding the next level but can not agree at all with the zero hunger.
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Perhaps I'm being harsh given his age, but whatever hunger he showed at VFL was definitely not there at AFL level.
 
Screenshot_20221004-063340.png

Obvious when you look at bnf results we lack top end talent.

A lot of VFL, other club discards so on one hand we do alright into turning vfl players into AFL level contributors but we really suck at match winners, elite talent.

Nobody on our list is best in their position. Also why we have a lot of room in our salary cap though as no one warrants a mega deal.

Still have no confidence in finding those players with dodo at the helm.
 
citizen-erased said:
looking at Geelong GF side and our best side

Bews - Redman
SDK - Zerk
Kolo - Kelly
Tuohy- McGrath
Stewart - Laverde*
Henry - Ridley
Smith - Martin
Selwood - Hobbs
Blicavs - Cox
Close - Snelling
Cameron - Jones
Miers - Guelfi
Rohan - Stringer
Hawkins - Wright
Stengle - ??? (don't really have that small fwd....tend to play Langford)*
Stanley - Draper
Danger - Parish
Guthrie - Merrett
Duncan - Shiel
Guthrie - Perkins
Atkins - Caldwell
O'Connor - D'Ambrosio

Bold is where I think development can kick in to catch up
* is where I think we need improvement

There's a story about patience and development in there.
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Really over-rating our list there.

Cameron, Hawkins, Stewart, smith are all pretty much the best in comp in there respective positions. We don't have anyone on on list currently who will be the best fwd in comp, intercept defender or wingman. That is not counting blicsvs and danger.

Also well coached, great culture.

In the perfect scenario and for us to contend we have Martin - smith, Ridley - Stewart, Cox - blicavs and draper/Perkins all become elite and push for all Aus in there positions. We really need all 5 to become consistently elite which I'm not confident on.
 
nipst@r said:
View attachment 1525765

Obvious when you look at bnf results we lack top end talent.

A lot of VFL, other club discards so on one hand we do alright into turning vfl players into AFL level contributors but we really suck at match winners, elite talent.

Nobody on our list is best in their position. Also why we have a lot of room in our salary cap though as no one warrants a mega deal.

Still have no confidence in finding those players with dodo at the helm.
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The B&F is a reflection of players doing what coaches want them to do.

Ideally you want your most talented players doing that, but at EFC they don't. Thus Parish way down in 9th, whilst Guelfi who tries his heart out every week doing the team-first stuff is 3rd.

It's only a reflection of who the 'best' player is when all the players are playing to coaches instructions.
 
owen87 said:
The B&F is a reflection of players doing what coaches want them to do.

Ideally you want your most talented players doing that, but at EFC they don't. Thus Parish way down in 9th, whilst Guelfi who tries his heart out every week doing the team-first stuff is 3rd.

It's only a reflection of who the 'best' player is when all the players are playing to coaches instructions.
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Parish is near the best mids in the comp?

I think if he could be as dominate and influential as a Bont, petracca, de Goey, Martin, danger then coaches actually change game style to accommodate the strengths.

Truth is not worth doing that for a parish as he is just not as good as those mentioned which takes me back to original point.

Stringer for his role probably is, can be but lacks consistency of the others.

The super elite talent doesn't have to coached to the same degree.

If Ridley was as good as a McGovern, Stewart or even lever I doubt he would be getting coached as hard to play 1 on 1 key position.

If ham/Langford were as good as smith they don't get coached to be harder at contest.

We don't have players whose strengths are so great they overcome obvious defencies. Stringer is the only one, maybe draper, Cox and Perkins in time but that's a lot of maybes.
 
nipst@r said:
Parish is near the best mids in the comp?

I think if he could be as dominate and influential as a Bont, petracca, de Goey, Martin, danger then coaches actually change game style to accommodate the strengths.

Truth is not worth doing that for a parish as he is just not as good as those mentioned which takes me back to original point.

Stringer for his role probably is, can be but lacks consistency of the others.

The super elite talent doesn't have to coached to the same degree.

If Ridley was as good as a McGovern, Stewart or even lever I doubt he would be getting coached as hard to play 1 on 1 key position.

If ham/Langford were as good as smith they don't get coached to be harder at contest.

We don't have players whose strengths are so great they overcome obvious defencies. Stringer is the only one, maybe draper, Cox and Perkins in time but that's a lot of maybes.
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Parish isn't anywhere near the best mids in the comp on 2022 form. Gets a heap of the ball, sure, but that's it.

When you've got a guy like Dusty, then coaches instructions is basically them doing whatever the hell they want. When you're a Parish who can't do what Dusty (or Bont, Fyfe, Petracca or Danger) can by simply brute forcing your way through stoppages, then you must provide something else to the side.

He's clearly a fantastic reader of the play to be able to accumulate the way he does, he moves through congestion well, he's clean by hand, and must read it off a ruckman's hand as well as anyone, but without the physical size or explosiveness to work through contact he's not going to be a guy who wins you a final by letting them play however they want to play.

He should look at Andrew Brayshaw for the kind of style he should play; a hard-working two-way medium midfielder. He's got the skillset to be one of the best in the game at that, he doesn't have the skillset to be one of the best offensive midfielders in the game given his size and relative weakness by foot.

Stringer has the offensive impact to be allowed to play a selfish game at centre bounces, because he has the size and explosiveness to just bully his way through contact, but in order to let him do that someone (Snelling did it a lot in 2021) has to pick-up his defensive running. Parish is no Stringer at stoppages so needs to contribute his own defensive running.
 
Assuming Ham and Francis leave, and taking into account our retirements and delistings, it's interesting who is left out of contract.

I think D'Ambrosio and Menzie may have 18 month contracts so can ignore those two. The rest are all marking forwards/skinny talls who may be marking forwards or key defenders.

Massimo D'Ambrosio
Alec Waterman
Kaine Baldwin
Jye Menzie
Josh Eyre
Cody Brand
Cian McBride

It's interesting that those decisions have been left to wait: presumably either for the input of the new coach (because we already don't have room for all of them?) Or until after the trade period depending on who we might be able to bring in/who might leave (which may again mean we won't have room for all of them if e.g. Francis were to stay).
 
Lore said:
Assuming Ham and Francis leave, and taking into account our retirements and delistings, it's interesting who is left out of contract.

I think D'Ambrosio and Menzie may have 18 month contracts so can ignore those two. The rest are all marking forwards/skinny talls who may be marking forwards or key defenders.

Massimo D'Ambrosio
Alec Waterman
Kaine Baldwin
Jye Menzie
Josh Eyre
Cody Brand
Cian McBride

It's interesting that those decisions have been left to wait: presumably either for the input of the new coach (because we already don't have room for all of them?) Or until after the trade period depending on who we might be able to bring in/who might leave (which may again mean we won't have room for all of them if e.g. Francis were to stay).
Click to expand...

Baldwin 1 year extension got announced a couple of weeks back. Massimo is on an 18 month contract, but not sure about Menzie, seem to think his was only 6 months.

Edit. Here’s the announcement for Kaine

 
Lore said:
Assuming Ham and Francis leave, and taking into account our retirements and delistings, it's interesting who is left out of contract.

I think D'Ambrosio and Menzie may have 18 month contracts so can ignore those two. The rest are all marking forwards/skinny talls who may be marking forwards or key defenders.

Massimo D'Ambrosio
Alec Waterman
Kaine Baldwin
Jye Menzie
Josh Eyre
Cody Brand
Cian McBride

It's interesting that those decisions have been left to wait: presumably either for the input of the new coach (because we already don't have room for all of them?) Or until after the trade period depending on who we might be able to bring in/who might leave (which may again mean we won't have room for all of them if e.g. Francis were to stay).
Click to expand...

It doesn't look like we're going to be trading in any players. Perhaps we'll pick up 1 or 2 delisted players, but otherwise it seems like we're going to be quiet this trade period. If Francis and Ham get traded (for late picks I'd imagine) we may not need to delist anyone else.
 
Nifft said:
It doesn't look like we're going to be trading in any players. Perhaps we'll pick up 1 or 2 delisted players, but otherwise it seems like we're going to be quiet this trade period. If Francis and Ham get traded (for late picks I'd imagine) we may not need to delist anyone else.
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Even if they don’t it does seem to be evidence of the thinking happening behind the scenes around list balance and development — thinking that predates Scott’s appointment
 

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so key(ish) defender for an inside midfielder is the start we need to make to re balance the list.

Don't settle on this with midfielders, add another one, (I would add) two this off season and we should look much better.


Someone suggested we could take as few as two live picks, Davey, Davey, Munkara and possibly 1 rookie and that'd be us done
 
Yoda_ said:
so key(ish) defender for an inside midfielder is the start we need to make to re balance the list.

Don't settle on this with midfielders, add another one, (I would add) two this off season and we should look much better.


Someone suggested we could take as few as two live picks, Davey, Davey, Munkara and possibly 1 rookie and that'd be us done
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Do we need another key defender? Just back the kids in.
 
Okay, of those currently unsigned, or already gone:

1 year: Josh Eyre, Jye Menzie

Traded: Aaron Francis
Delist: Tom Cutler, Brayden Ham, Garrett McDonagh, Cody Brand, Alec Waterman, Tom Hird
Retire: Michael Hurley, Devon Smith, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti

With the additions of Weideman and Setterfield we'd be at 35 players between the senior and Category A rookie list, 28 on the senior list and 7 on the Cat A rookie list. Like others I'm expecting a promotion for Martin and Durham to take us to 30 and 5, leaving up to 7 open slots for the draft and any potential DFA/PSD pick.

Pick 5: George Wardlaw (Oakleigh Chargers, 182 cm/82 kg, Inside Midfielder)
Pick 23: Jaspa Fletcher bid if it hasn't happened, followed by Lachlan Cowan (Tasmania, 188/81, Outside Midfielder)
Pick 26: Alwyn Davey jr (Oakleigh Chargers, 180/74, Small Forward/Midfielder) matche bid from Hawthorne

Then take Jayden Davey with a late pick, hopefully someone like Jack Bytel as a DFA, and maybe Quinton Narkle, a half back of some kind in the rookie draft and Anthony Munkara as a Cat B rookie. Puts our list somewhere like:

Defence:

Key Defenders: Nik Cox (fwd), Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Zach Reid, Josh Eyre (fwd), Cian McBride (ruc)
Medium Defenders: Jordan Ridley, Jayden Laverde, Jake Kelly
Small Defenders: Andrew McGrath (mid), Nick Hind (fwd), Mason Redman, Alistair Lord, Massimo D'Ambrosio (fwd), <insert rookie half back here>

Midfield:

Inside Midfielders: Darcy Parish, Quinton Narkle, Jye Caldwell, Zachary Merrett, Ben Hobbs, Dylan Shiel, Will Setterfield, George Wardlaw, Jack Bytel
Outside Midfielders: Kyle Langford (fwd), Dyson Heppell (def), Sam Durham, Nic Martin (fwd), Lachlan Cowan (def)
Rucks: Sam Draper, Nick Bryan, Andrew Phillips

Forward:

Key Forwards: James Stewart (def), Peter Wright (ruc), Harrison Jones, Kaine Baldwin, Sam Weideman
Medium Forwards: Archie Perkins (mid), Jake Stringer (mid), Patrick Voss, Anthony Munkara
Small Forwards: Will Snelling, Matt Guelfi, Tex Wanganeen, Alwyn Davey jr (mid), Jayden Davey, Jye Menzie

That puts the 44 at:

14 defenders (5 tall, 3 medium, 6 small)
17 midfielders (9 inside, 5 outside, 3 ruck)
15 forwards (5 tall, 4 medium, 6 small)

Gives us a bit of flexibility, but in essence 13 key position players is probably a good balance here. If we consider Cox as a forward instead of a back I'd definitely consider keeping Brand to keep the balance.
 
Last edited:
Delist: Waterman, Ham, Eyre, McBride (other's already gone)
Sign for 1 year: Brand (S), Menzie (R)
Promote to senior list: Martin and Durham. (They're best 22, makes sense).

This leaves
Senior list: 30
Rookie list: 5
Cat Bs: 0

Pick 5: Wardlaw.
Pick 23: Szybkowski
Later picks: 2xDaveys.
Munkara Falls to a Cat B.

This leaves a couple of spots open to decide on Tippa and have another look at a guy over Summer.
 
eth-dog said:
Okay, of those currently unsigned, or already gone:

1 year: Josh Eyre, Jye Menzie

Traded: Aaron Francis
Delist: Tom Cutler, Brayden Ham, Garrett McDonagh, Cody Brand, Alec Waterman, Tom Hird
Retire: Michael Hurley, Devon Smith, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti

With the additions of Weideman and Setterfield we'd be at 35 players between the senior and Category A rookie list, 28 on the senior list and 7 on the Cat A rookie list. Like others I'm expecting a promotion for Martin and Durham to take us to 30 and 5, leaving up to 7 open slots for the draft and any potential DFA/PSD pick.

Pick 5: George Wardlaw (Oakleigh Chargers, 182 cm/82 kg, Inside Midfielder)
Pick 23: Jaspa Fletcher bid if it hasn't happened, followed by Lachlan Cowan (Tasmania, 188/81, Outside Midfielder)
Pick 26: Alwyn Davey jr (Oakleigh Chargers, 180/74, Small Forward/Midfielder) matche bid from Hawthorne

Then take Jayden Davey with a late pick, hopefully someone like Jack Bytel as a DFA, and maybe Quinton Narkle, a half back of some kind in the rookie draft and Anthony Munkara as a Cat B rookie. Puts our list somewhere like:

Defence:

Key Defenders: Nik Cox (fwd), Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Zach Reid, Josh Eyre (fwd), Cian McBride (ruc)
Medium Defenders: Jordan Ridley, Jayden Laverde, Jake Kelly
Small Defenders: Andrew McGrath (mid), Nick Hind (fwd), Mason Redman, Alistair Lord, Massimo D'Ambrosio (fwd), <insert rookie half back here>

Midfield:

Inside Midfielders: Darcy Parish, Quinton Narkle, Jye Caldwell, Zachary Merrett, Ben Hobbs, Dylan Shiel, Will Setterfield, George Wardlaw, Jack Bytel
Outside Midfielders: Kyle Langford (fwd), Dyson Heppell (def), Sam Durham, Nic Martin (fwd), Lachlan Cowan (def)
Rucks: Sam Draper, Nick Bryan, Andrew Phillips

Forward:

Key Forwards: James Stewart (def), Peter Wright (ruc), Harrison Jones, Kaine Baldwin, Sam Weideman
Medium Forwards: Archie Perkins (mid), Jake Stringer (mid), Patrick Voss, Anthony Munkara
Small Forwards: Will Snelling, Matt Guelfi, Tex Wanganeen, Alwyn Davey jr (mid), Jayden Davey, Jye Menzie

That puts the 44 at:

14 defenders (5 tall, 3 medium, 6 small)
17 midfielders (9 inside, 5 outside, 3 ruck)
15 forwards (5 tall, 4 medium, 6 small)

Gives us a bit of flexibility, but in essence 13 key position players is probably a good balance here. If we consider Cox as a forward instead of a back I'd definitely consider keeping Brand to keep the balance.
Click to expand...
would half back not be Cowan's thing? Strikes me as a Redman type who powers off the back flank.
He looks good, but wonder if teams think about potential impact of developing him and he goes home to Tas

Like all that though.
 
eth-dog said:
Okay, of those currently unsigned, or already gone:

1 year: Josh Eyre, Jye Menzie

Traded: Aaron Francis
Delist: Tom Cutler, Brayden Ham, Garrett McDonagh, Cody Brand, Alec Waterman, Tom Hird
Retire: Michael Hurley, Devon Smith, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti

With the additions of Weideman and Setterfield we'd be at 35 players between the senior and Category A rookie list, 28 on the senior list and 7 on the Cat A rookie list. Like others I'm expecting a promotion for Martin and Durham to take us to 30 and 5, leaving up to 7 open slots for the draft and any potential DFA/PSD pick.

Pick 5: George Wardlaw (Oakleigh Chargers, 182 cm/82 kg, Inside Midfielder)
Pick 23: Jaspa Fletcher bid if it hasn't happened, followed by Lachlan Cowan (Tasmania, 188/81, Outside Midfielder)
Pick 26: Alwyn Davey jr (Oakleigh Chargers, 180/74, Small Forward/Midfielder) matche bid from Hawthorne

Then take Jayden Davey with a late pick, hopefully someone like Jack Bytel as a DFA, and maybe Quinton Narkle, a half back of some kind in the rookie draft and Anthony Munkara as a Cat B rookie. Puts our list somewhere like:

Defence:

Key Defenders: Nik Cox (fwd), Brandon Zerk-Thatcher, Zach Reid, Josh Eyre (fwd), Cian McBride (ruc)
Medium Defenders: Jordan Ridley, Jayden Laverde, Jake Kelly
Small Defenders: Andrew McGrath (mid), Nick Hind (fwd), Mason Redman, Alistair Lord, Massimo D'Ambrosio (fwd), <insert rookie half back here>

Midfield:

Inside Midfielders: Darcy Parish, Quinton Narkle, Jye Caldwell, Zachary Merrett, Ben Hobbs, Dylan Shiel, Will Setterfield, George Wardlaw, Jack Bytel
Outside Midfielders: Kyle Langford (fwd), Dyson Heppell (def), Sam Durham, Nic Martin (fwd), Lachlan Cowan (def)
Rucks: Sam Draper, Nick Bryan, Andrew Phillips

Forward:

Key Forwards: James Stewart (def), Peter Wright (ruc), Harrison Jones, Kaine Baldwin, Sam Weideman
Medium Forwards: Archie Perkins (mid), Jake Stringer (mid), Patrick Voss, Anthony Munkara
Small Forwards: Will Snelling, Matt Guelfi, Tex Wanganeen, Alwyn Davey jr (mid), Jayden Davey, Jye Menzie

That puts the 44 at:

14 defenders (5 tall, 3 medium, 6 small)
17 midfielders (9 inside, 5 outside, 3 ruck)
15 forwards (5 tall, 4 medium, 6 small)

Gives us a bit of flexibility, but in essence 13 key position players is probably a good balance here. If we consider Cox as a forward instead of a back I'd definitely consider keeping Brand to keep the balance.
Click to expand...
Like this, if its Tsatas instead of Wardlaw would you look at an inside player instead of Cowan?

Or just going best available at 22?
 
Steve94 said:
Like this, if its Tsatas instead of Wardlaw would you look at an inside player instead of Cowan?

Or just going best available at 22?
Click to expand...
Probably, someone like Szybkowski will probably be available.
 
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