List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion - 2022 Off Season Edition

[Keys]

Contract status of all players now fully updated

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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[Keys]

Man, if another team gets a better deal than 8 and 12 for 2, I'm gonna be pissed.

Yeah this is why we should have kept it till draft night. Still happy splitting the pick but look at the hype a guy projected at 8-11 has picked up in 2 weeks, with multiple clubs clamouring to move up the order. Definitely would have been a potential to get on the end of a bidding war

Even if we did a smallish trade initially (assuming any were available), trading down from 2 to 4 or 5 for another pick and then keeping that and listening to offers on draft night. We had the right idea with the split but didn’t extract maximum value

Had the trade for 8 & 12 not been done there are some questions we don’t know the answer to :
1) Would North have traded pick 1 to GWS anyway
2) If we retained pick 2 would we have kept it for Cadman or been prepared to trade it to GWS

Best case scenario if those answers are no and yes as we could have ended up with 3 and 12 from GWS. Truth is though I think eventually GWS would have got pick 1

So assuming we kept 2 and can look at offers :
• Adelaide - Could offer their F1 and Norths F2. Notionally 5 and 19 in a superior draft is close to 8&12. Adelaide a good chance to finish higher and we delay a big part of our rebuild by 12 months
• Brisbane- have nothing to offer
• Carlton - Have 10 and their F1. Even if they added 29 that’s still worse than 8&12
• Collingwood - Their best offer would be 16,25,27 and no ability to offer future picks. That’s no use
• Essendon - Could give 4 and 22. There’s a drop in talent available from 12 to 22 that doesn’t offset the difference between 4 and 8
• Fremantle - Lol. They’ve got nothing
• Geelong - Pick 7 and donuts
• Gold Coast - Pick 5 and maybe GWS F2 which they hold. Worth considering but with who they’re looking at I don’t think they’re trading up anyway
• GWS - Have 15,18,19 and Richmond’s F2 they could use. Even if they offered 3 of those I think 8&12 is better. They wouldn’t offer their F1
• Hawthorn - Pick 6 and 24 is worse than Essendon have. Their F1 is being positioned for Harley Reid and would be off limits
• Melbourne - 13 and Freo’s F1. Maybe if we thought Freo were going to slide out of the 8. Still a delay of sorts to our rebuild
• North - in this alternate universe they would have 8&12 to offer us most likely. Funny that
• Port - Have nothing
• Richmond - Have nothing
• Sydney - 14&17. Adding their F1 doesn’t help
• St Kilda - 9 and their F1 is probably the closest to trumping 8&12 but unlikely they’d offer that without something going back given the strength of next years draft
• Bulldogs - 11 and their F1 wouldn’t be too bad assuming it was on the table. They also have Brisbanes F1 as an alternative to their own.

It’s very hard to find a scenario that had we kept 2, we’d be better off with by waiting to draft night

I don’t think we need to be second guessing whether we should have done the trade. It was good business and made sense

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Nope you're spot on beets. Exactly how i played it out, although I do think it's unlikely Ginbey is selected before all three. Hollands would be around the mark, Jefferson too.

I'd be happy with either of those 3 mids. The critical one is Hewett at 12 IMO.

Regardless of our first selection, if we can at least lock away an explosive wa midfielder as backup at 12, it'll go down much easier.

Agree. I think it is all about the pairing of mids we get.

By all means play the sliding game with Hewett at 8 and assume he is there at 12. Hewett has power. He needs to be taught how to use it and be that player in patches. Shuey would be a wonderful teacher in that regard.

I think of Hewett as a power mid but in reality he is a balanced mid that can win it on the inside and get separation/break away from stoppages. I have been reluctant on Gilbey when I think Mackenzie is still there but either of these (or Hollands) would be a good pairing. I think Szybkowski would also add to the combination as he allowed Culley had a good pairing in the first half of 2022. I think we could et the Skier at 26.

No way do I want us to trade up to get Ginbey. I think (or hope) it is just a smoke screen.

 

[Hazardinho]

Had the trade for 8 & 12 not been done there are some questions we don’t know the answer to :
1) Would North have traded pick 1 to GWS anyway
2) If we retained pick 2 would we have kept it for Cadman or been prepared to trade it to GWS

Best case scenario if those answers are no and yes as we could have ended up with 3 and 12 from GWS. Truth is though I think eventually GWS would have got pick 1

So assuming we kept 2 and can look at offers :
• Adelaide - Could offer their F1 and Norths F2. Notionally 5 and 19 in a superior draft is close to 8&12. Adelaide a good chance to finish higher and we delay a big part of our rebuild by 12 months
• Brisbane- have nothing to offer
• Carlton - Have 10 and their F1. Even if they added 29 that’s still worse than 8&12
• Collingwood - Their best offer would be 16,25,27 and no ability to offer future picks. That’s no use
• Essendon - Could give 4 and 22. There’s a drop in talent available from 12 to 22 that doesn’t offset the difference between 4 and 8
• Fremantle - Lol. They’ve got nothing
• Geelong - Pick 7 and donuts
• Gold Coast - Pick 5 and maybe GWS F2 which they hold. Worth considering but with who they’re looking at I don’t think they’re trading up anyway
• GWS - Have 15,18,19 and Richmond’s F2 they could use. Even if they offered 3 of those I think 8&12 is better. They wouldn’t offer their F1
• Hawthorn - Pick 6 and 24 is worse than Essendon have. Their F1 is being positioned for Harley Reid and would be off limits
• Melbourne - 13 and Freo’s F1. Maybe if we thought Freo were going to slide out of the 8. Still a delay of sorts to our rebuild
• North - in this alternate universe they would have 8&12 to offer us most likely. Funny that
• Port - Have nothing
• Richmond - Have nothing
• Sydney - 14&17. Adding their F1 doesn’t help
• St Kilda - 9 and their F1 is probably the closest to trumping 8&12 but unlikely they’d offer that without something going back given the strength of next years draft
• Bulldogs - 11 and their F1 wouldn’t be too bad assuming it was on the table. They also have Brisbanes F1 as an alternative to their own.

It’s very hard to find a scenario that had we kept 2, we’d be better off with by waiting to draft night

I don’t think we need to be second guessing whether we should have done the trade. It was good business and made sense

Sorry to intrude your board but I do feel you guys shouldn’t have traded your pick 2. I think North Melbourne would have taken Sheezel/Wardlaw 1 and you could have traded with GWS so they can take Cadman at 2 and you guys could of had the pick of the bunch from Wardlaw/Sheezel Phillipou, Tsatas and one of the WA boys at 12.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

I don’t think we need to be second guessing whether we should have done the trade. It was good business and made sense

Yeah, I'm holding off on that call until after the draft.

Maybe even longer if we draft a tall and we all wait to see if he's a Brander or an Oscar Allen.

 

[FKASC]

Sorry to intrude your board but I do feel you guys shouldn’t have traded your pick 2. I think North Melbourne would have taken Sheezel/Wardlaw 1 and you could have traded with GWS so they can take Cadman at 2 and you guys could of had the pick of the bunch from Wardlaw/Sheezel Phillipou, Tsatas and one of the WA boys at 12.

Do you come in peace?

 

[Hazardinho]

Do you come in peace?

Yes

 

[bh90210fan]

Sorry to intrude your board but I do feel you guys shouldn’t have traded your pick 2. I think North Melbourne would have taken Sheezel/Wardlaw 1 and you could have traded with GWS so they can take Cadman at 2 and you guys could of had the pick of the bunch from Wardlaw/Sheezel Phillipou, Tsatas and one of the WA boys at 12.

We wouldn’t have 12 if we didn’t do the trade

 

[navi_]

Sorry to intrude your board but I do feel you guys shouldn’t have traded your pick 2. I think North Melbourne would have taken Sheezel/Wardlaw 1 and you could have traded with GWS so they can take Cadman at 2 and you guys could of had the pick of the bunch from Wardlaw/Sheezel Phillipou, Tsatas and one of the WA boys at 12.

it does sound good but it fails to take into account Sheezel/Wardlaw flight risk factor

think both boys are on record saying they don't wanna leave vic.

would like to think regardless as a club we back ourselves to retain talent from other states but its a factor nonetheless

 

[Hazardinho]

We wouldn’t have 12 if we didn’t do the trade

Wasn’t 12 GWS pick? You do the trade separately with them.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Essendon midfield has Hobbs, Parish, Perkins, Caldwell, Shiel, Merrett, Langford - the missing factor is genuine speed

Hawks midfield Newcombe, Ward, Stephens, Warpel, Moore - the missing factor is genuine speed

Surely Tsatas will not be overlooked by both clubs. Phillipou to Dons and Tsatas to Hawks.

Both Clark and Mackenzie offer much the same as Ward and Stephens in skill set.

 

[Hazardinho]

it does sound good but it fails to take into account Sheezel/Wardlaw flight risk factor

think both boys are on record saying they dont wanna leave vic.

I’m tired of these mommy boys complaining about going interstate in a national competition.

 

[Keys]

I see there are continued rumours that we may be engaging with Essendon to trade up to pick 4 in exchange for a future second. Everyone assumes it’s for Ginbey but could it be for Phillipou or Tsatas?


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So depending on which F2 (ours or Ports that we effectively got for Rioli) is being used the trade of pick 2 for 8 & 12 becomes

• Pick 2 and Rioli for 4 and 12

Or

• Pick 2 and our F2 for 4 and 12


Looking at the net result those trades look okay

The question is, who are we trading up to pick 4 to get and is that player sufficiently better than who we could get at 8 to use most likely our F2. Based on the clubs stated opinion on the evenness of the draft I don’t think so

I’d be surprised (and disappointed) if we used any future draft capital to trade up

 

[bh90210fan]

Wasn’t 12 GWS pick? You do the trade separately with them.

Right.

 

[twce13]

 

[Keys]

Sorry to intrude your board but I do feel you guys shouldn’t have traded your pick 2. I think North Melbourne would have taken Sheezel/Wardlaw 1 and you could have traded with GWS so they can take Cadman at 2 and you guys could of had the pick of the bunch from Wardlaw/Sheezel Phillipou, Tsatas and one of the WA boys at 12.

I agree with this but only if we knew for a certainty that North wouldn’t have traded pick 1 to GWS in a separate deal.

Personally I think GWS would eventually have twisted Norths arm to agree to the trade

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Sorry to intrude your board but I do feel you guys shouldn’t have traded your pick 2. I think North Melbourne would have taken Sheezel/Wardlaw 1 and you could have traded with GWS so they can take Cadman at 2 and you guys could of had the pick of the bunch from Wardlaw/Sheezel Phillipou, Tsatas and one of the WA boys at 12.

That was never on offer so what is your point?

Norf had not declared who they were taking at 1 so GWS could have traded up to 2 and then needing to trade up again to 1 to secure Cadman.

Apart from lazy journalism out of Melbourne, what makes you so sure we wanted a WA boy at 12? Surely you did not glean this information from a chat with O'Brien!!!

 

[amazingjoshy]

Yeah this is why we should have kept it till draft night. Still happy splitting the pick but look at the hype a guy projected at 8-11 has picked up in 2 weeks, with multiple clubs clamouring to move up the order. Definitely would have been a potential to get on the end of a bidding war

Even if we did a smallish trade initially (assuming any were available), trading down from 2 to 4 or 5 for another pick and then keeping that and listening to offers on draft night. We had the right idea with the split but didn’t extract maximum value

Well we won't know that till after the draft. If someone gets a better deal for a top 5 pick you can say that. As of now, the best reported offer seems to be Melbourne and Freos future firsts (both likely picks in the teens)

 

[Dark Sharks]

Sorry to intrude your board but I do feel you guys shouldn’t have traded your pick 2. I think North Melbourne would have taken Sheezel/Wardlaw 1 and you could have traded with GWS so they can take Cadman at 2 and you guys could of had the pick of the bunch from Wardlaw/Sheezel Phillipou, Tsatas and one of the WA boys at 12.

Forgot to say you come in peace.

Mods, ban this kent.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Well we won't know that till after the draft. If someone gets a better deal for a top 5 pick you can say that. As of now, the best reported offer seems to be Melbourne and Freos future firsts (both likely picks in the teens)

Freo F1 likely to be around 12-15 and with Melbourne I'd value their F1 as 18. Given that, I would be asking for this year's pick 13 in addition and then give them back a future second (somewhere in the early to mid 20's).

It would give Brad Scott a year to work out what he wanted to do with 3 first rounders in 2023.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Do you come in peace?

You nerds think you're so funny with your boardisms!

 

[eaglespremiers]

You nerds think you're so funny with your boardisms!

Wow, I think you need to have a sub with Bock to make you feel like 10,000 jubilant Mastos.

 

[FKASC]

You nerds think you're so funny with your boardisms!

Shut up 4 eyes

 

[squashface]

Shut up 4 eyes

Nice swerve of calling him the other part of his username

 

[eaglespremiers]

Nice swerve of calling him the other part of his username

Shut up ashfa

 

[Obeanie1]

Interesting to see covid probably impacted Mitch Szybkowski for his last two games which were telling big games for his ranking - nab league grand final and last champs game vs Vic Metro. He's probably in the 20-35 draft range now, where mid season was top 20.

First half of the season he was Culleys partner in crime at Dandy, and they were putting up big numbers and strong contested game.
I really like Mitch Szybkowski, as he's got a really good contested game but I think his kicking for a contested midfielders is really good which is evident in this video -

I think we could get him with pick 26, so if we take a mid and tall with our first two he is someone we can take later and still be a very good midfielder.

Really like Szybkowski.

Sets training standards, cracks in and a real competitive type. Can accumulate with decent but not elite skills. Say a Redden like output midfielder?

If we do go for Allan earlier getting this kid in at 29ish would help address our inside mid shortfall.

Interesting relationship with Culley, didnt know that. So if cards fell a certain way:

After bids

9 Ginbey
13 Allan
23 Clarke
29 Szybkowski

It would be a deviation from our previous drafting criteria of more proven junior form. More risky and speculative but Who Dares Wins is a worthy motto when rebuilding.

Assuming
Phillapou, Clark, Mackenzie all taken before 9
Hewett ends up in NSW before our 2nd rounder.
Jones goes before our 29