List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[bzparkes]

If you think we don't try to make sure certain players get drafted by us your very naive.

We certainly did it with darling and more recently Hewett.

Collard has been part of our NGA for a few years and if he was to play his part and play up the flight risk factor he could get drafted to the club he wants and we get one of the most talented draftees for peanuts

Might as well.

Vic media's been doing it for months for Reid, after all.

 

[TerryFilk]

If we wanted a player like a Murphy or Wilson or Windsor we will need to trade up.

19 likely wont get any of them.

Huh? We’re talking about who we’d target if we traded for pick 10 mate. I know they won’t be there at 19.

 

[Eddie_Sandbrah]

If you think we don't try to make sure certain players get drafted by us your very naive.

We certainly did it with darling and more recently Hewett.

Collard has been part of our NGA for a few years and if he was to play his part and play up the flight risk factor he could get drafted to the club he wants and we get one of the most talented draftees for peanuts

He's ranked roughly at 40. If he lasts to 41, we can match a bid. But we'd have to really rate him to pull a stunt like that.

"Hey Lance, old boy, whaddaya say, you say "I don't want to move interstate", and we "defo draft you, or match any bid if you last past 40?"

Person with post 100 IQ: "But if you f***o's change your mind, or you trade away picks to get an early pick or part of a huge trade, I'm left standing with my dick in my hands. I'll just stfu and hope I get drafted by the team that wants me the most".

 

[BrotherDodge]

Tbf we've only seen one face of Foley. Let's draft him again and see if we get Cactus Jack or Mankind next time!

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Pick 19 = Mitch Edwards. No more discussion!!!

 

[Art OF war]

We certainly did it with darling and more recently Hewett.

Collard has been part of our NGA for a few years and if he was to play his part and play up the flight risk factor he could get drafted to the club he wants and we get one of the most talented draftees for peanuts

How did we “Darling” Hewitt? Tell everyone he’s a Trump supporter?

 

[dinnaz]

Crazy talk.

Not only does our midfield get smashed every week, but giving up Harley for JVR is nuts.

The priority in building a list profile is this:

1. Mid. If you don't have a top 4 midfield, it's unlikely you will win a flag. You also can't build a top 4 midfield without top 5 and top 10 picks. You might jag a player here and there, but you can't build a full midfield without those top picks.

2. KPF. While you can get away with 1x gun KPF and win a flag, two is better. You can however find them outside the top five or top 10, except finding good ones is the hardest player to find.


The midfield and KPF, if you don't get these right then you're not winning a flag. Pack it up and go home.

So the priority with top 5 picks is midfielders. If that gun KPF comes along and you think he's the real deal, take him. An example might be, if this years market was free, you'd probably take Walter at #2. Last year's market? I wouldn't take Cadman in the top 10. If the right KPF comes and is available, you probably have to pull the trigger, otherwise, build your midfield in the top 5.


Gap. Huge gap.

3. SF, KPD's, and Outside Mids. These players not only have to be exceptional to take in the top 10, but your midfield either has to be pretty much built, or the player is a way better option that the best mid available. North's midfield is mostly built. Curtin and Watson are good options for them (although they can't pass up McKercher at 2). For us? Lucky we got pick 1 because none of those players are great options for us. Outside mids struggle to play at peak in teams with weak midfields (bottom 8 teams). So drafting with a top 5 pick is a huge risk. Best to build the "own ball winning" midfield with top 5 picks, and on the way up the ladder, draft your outside mid (if you haven't found one already at a later pick) with a 1st rounder that sits 8 - 15.

So generally you're taking SF, OM, and KPD in the 10 - 20 range. Most clubs with these picks are top 8ish and therefore already have a midfield. They're either filling gaps or banking the best player available.

4. Rucks and HBFs. The lepers of the draft. HBF's are dime a dozen and the chances are you're going to plonk a guy there who doesn't quite cut it in the midfield. Rucks typically take 5+ years to development and there's every chance they go elsewhere for a #1 ruck spot anyway. These guys are typically drafted second round and later.


So we have Oscar already. He's an A-grade KPF. Although preferable to have another, we can get away without. But we can't get away without elite mids. All we have to do is keep drafting mids and when that KPF in the top 5 or 10 presents, nab him. We may even get lucky and get one with a later pick (Oscar and Darling were both at about 22).

Alternate options to JVR will present themselves, probably not with Harley.

Putting my coaching hat on, I reckon this is the wrong view.

Not playing with a decent FF who can bring the ball to ground or having anyone who can match up on the best KPF in the comp is an absolute nightmare with literally no immediate solution on game day or even that season. You can be trading someone in but no one lets their good talls go, or waiting 5 years

Modern AFL also leans heavily on KPD dominating with midfield pressure resulting in long bombs which they can pick off.
Imagine if the Western Bulldogs had a decent spine 2016-2022. A good midfield is important but you can manage with less top end in there like Richmond have for years.

The other view we need to take is that if fill up any one position then there's no way to take advantage of any bargains in the draft such as Darling at #26, Allen at #21. Plus any trades in are unbalancing your list like at Fremantle with Darcy & Jackson.

 

[BrotherDodge]

How did we “Darling” Hewitt? Tell everyone he’s a Trump supporter?

According to rumour, our king blew vape smoke in a Collingwood recruiter's face. No idea if it's true, and if so, if we put him up to it. Would be pretty cool if we did though!

 

[Eddie_Sandbrah]

Putting my Mark Neeld coaching hat on, I reckon this is the wrong view.

Not playing with a decent FF who can bring the ball to ground or having anyone who can match up on the best KPF in the comp is an absolute nightmare with literally no immediate solution on game day or even that season. You can be trading someone in but no one lets their good talls go, or waiting 5 years

I can name flag sides with only 1 key forward, but can't name a flag side that didn't have an elite midfield. I just noticed below you said Richmond manage with less top end. You're having a laaaarf.

Modern AFL also leans heavily on KPD dominating with midfield pressure resulting in long bombs which they can pick off.
Imagine if the Western Bulldogs had a decent spine 2016-2022. A good midfield is important but you can manage with less top end in there like Richmond have for years.

The other view we need to take is that if fill up any one position then there's no way to take advantage of any bargains in the draft such as Darling at #26, Allen at #21. Plus any trades in are unbalancing your list like at Fremantle with Darcy & Jackson.

I'm not saying don't try and find another KPF. I'm saying find one through other means than trading Harley. Find one in the top 5 or 10 over the next few seasons.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Pick 19 = Mitch Edwards. No more discussion!!!

No, more discussion!

 

[Goroyals22]

So will he remain on the list as mankind or dude love like the royal rumble ?


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[dinnaz]

Another Academy kid that’s going completely under the radar for most people and probably hasn’t even been mentioned in here is Charlie McCormack.
Probably viewed by most as being outside pick 40 but I think he’s top 20 on talent, just has a body that needs some development.

He's just so noticeable because he has such a shit haircut
Was good at the champs but had a heap of opportunity. Still a rookie pick from my POV

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

How did we “Darling” Hewitt? Tell everyone he’s a Trump supporter?

Before the draft all the attitude 'issues' , had to change schools, blowing vape smoke in the face of a Collingwood recruiter , playing out of his skin vs metro then relegated to the forward pocket , playing wafl seniors in the forward pocket instead of colts midfield and everyone thought he would slide out of the first round and we pounced .

When we split pick 2 Hewett was the target and ginbey was the bonus

 

[ghostbat12]

Don't understand what people see in Sharp. As hard as butter in the summer sun.

He is west Australian, and therefore a wa player that won’t get a game is better than a Victorian that may leave if they become a star.

No one sees anything except that his is from this state and Gold Coast rated him pre draft.

 

[BeornJ]

Spent years investing in Foley then we traded for Witherden who do this day does not know how to defend. All because Withers can pull off an awesome kick every once in a while.

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Witherden has his dumb moments but saying he doesn't know how to defend is way over the top.

 

[plays tall 1]

O'Sullivan definitely off the board before 19, may even go ahead of Curtin. He should combine very well.

Zakostelsky should also combine very, very well. Hopefully not to the point where he's out of reach of our third or Ports second.

On an earlier question I can see Evan Smith getting rookie listed, Walsh a maybe as he's finished the season quite well but would say less likely. Speaking of WA players Fonti and Hine-Baston a chance at the rookie list as well.

The combine will be really interesting this year. I think some people will be surprised at just how well some of the talls test.

Logan Evans is one I still have an eye on for a late pick and very interested in his state combine testing.

Any thoughts on Wil Dawson? Looks like a cheap KPD option with upside.

 

[Schtinker]

O'Sullivan definitely off the board before 19, may even go ahead of Curtin. He should combine very well.

Zakostelsky should also combine very, very well. Hopefully not to the point where he's out of reach of our third or Ports second.

On an earlier question I can see Evan Smith getting rookie listed, Walsh a maybe as he's finished the season quite well but would say less likely. Speaking of WA players Fonti and Hine-Baston a chance at the rookie list as well.

The combine will be really interesting this year. I think some people will be surprised at just how well some of the talls test.

Logan Evans is one I still have an eye on for a late pick and very interested in his state combine testing.

What are your thoughts on Jack Cocking? Does he have a defensive side? Is he only a medium forward or can his skill translate into mid/wing?

 

[Kapowie1]

Tbf we've only seen one face of Foley. Let's draft him again and see if we get Cactus Jack or Mankind next time!

Don’t forget Dude Love!!!



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[Get_The_Gaff]

Witherden has his dumb moments but saying he doesn't know how to defend is way over the top.

Nah he is slow as a wet week , always has goals kicked on him and he really isn't that good a kick as he butchers it all to often.

Brisbane paying his salary to play for us and get him off their list says it all

 

[WCE_phil]

What are your thoughts on Jack Cocking? Does he have a defensive side? Is he only a medium forward or can his skill translate into mid/wing?

Has talent, not sure it translates. He certainly has some talent but I think he'd have to go the long way round and really up his abilities further up the ground. Certainly kicked a lot of goals for the year and accurately as well. TBH I haven't been keeping a very close eye on him he just hasn't been high enough on my potential targets list.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Before the draft all the attitude 'issues' , had to change schools, blowing vape smoke in the face of a Collingwood recruiter , playing out of his skin vs metro then relegated to the forward pocket , playing wafl seniors in the forward pocket instead of colts midfield and everyone thought he would slide out of the first round and we pounced .

When we split pick 2 Hewett was the target and ginbey was the bonus

That's a hell of a lot of words just to say;

Swinging Dick Based on what Fox had to say about him bs the BEagles anyway.

 

[Deepthroat]

When looking at my delisting list, Foley was an obvious first one to go.

HB, one of the few positions we have coverage.

Stalled progression.

Zero trade value.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

When looking at my delisting list, Foley was an obvious first one to go.

HB, one of the few positions we have coverage.

Stalled progression.

Zero trade value.

Yep next year our backline hopefully looks like
B Cole Barrass duggan
HB yeo McGovern Hough
With hunt and Jones in support

 

[Keys]

Sweet vs Flynn



Jordan Sweet
-pick 23,2018 rookie draft
-debut R5, 2021
-25 years old
-205cm
-106kg
-11 games
-21.36 hitouts
-8.18 disposals
-1.91 marks
-4.00 tackles



Matt Flynn
-pick 41, 2015 afl draft
-debut R1, 2021
-26 years old
-200cm
-103kg
-33 games
-23.76 hitouts
-11.45 disposals
-2.85 marks
-2.58 tackles

I’ve not seen enough (any) of either to make a judgement on who’s better. Stats for Flynn a little better, but Sweet a better size for a No.1 ruck

Both are mid twenties so still have several years ahead of them if they’re good enough to get games and are at an age where ruckman can start to come on

Flynn is an UFA whereas Sweet, whilst out of contract, is not and we would need to trade for

For me, Flynn being a free agent makes him the more attractive choice simply because there’s no draft capital required to get him

 

[Eastern Rangers]

He's ranked roughly at 40.

By who? You'll be lucky to get consensus on the top 15 prospects in this years draft.

You will have players going in the 20's that other clubs wouldn't even draft.


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