2010 Victorian Election - 27 November

[Slax]

I cant see how someone could be critical of a government who has kept a very strong economy in a worldwide recession....
What infrastructure did the previous Kennett government give us???

Things like the desal plant are often criticised...but one thing can be gauranteed, we wont run out of water.

Just not in the next 10 years, desal plants have a very limited lifespan due to the nature and will only last a decade. Is it really worth the huge costs being burdened on all Victorian in huge increases in our water bills. I think not.

Some important things:
New hosptials (womens, childrens, monash childrens)
Future proofed water resources (compared to coalitions old policy of a new dam...helps a lot in drought...)
Regional Rail link, largely federal money but still a state government initiative.

With the hopsitals, I asked what Brumby had done not what Steve Bracks did.

Regional Rail Network - you're kidding mate, trains still take longer to get to Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, etc than they did in the 1920s. The regional rail system is a sham, it covers just over half the distance it did in the 1970s, something for such a well run state as you claim to be ashamed of.

 

[incubi]

Just not in the next 10 years, desal plants have a very limited lifespan due to the nature and will only last a decade. Is it really worth the huge costs being burdened on all Victorian in huge increases in our water bills. I think not.



With the hopsitals, I asked what Brumby had done not what Steve Bracks did.

Regional Rail Network - you're kidding mate, trains still take longer to get to Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, etc than they did in the 1920s. The regional rail system is a sham, it covers just over half the distance it did in the 1970s, something for such a well run state as you claim to be ashamed of.

Both Labor, without a gap between them...they are the same government despite the leader.

 

[Slax]

Both Labor, without a gap between them...they are the same government despite the leader.

Maybe, but learn to answer the question or else get used to a lot of failure in life mate. My question is about what has the Brumby government done, so please answer it if you can.

 

[incubi]

Maybe, but learn to answer the question or else get used to a lot of failure in life mate. My question is about what has the Brumby government done, so please answer it if you can.

Well i think its clear that realistically the Brumby and Bracks governments as you call them are actually just one government...

But ok
- $10b transport plan announced last year
- kept us in great economic conditions despite one of the biggest international economic downfalls in years
- Secured Victorias water supplies
- Regional Rail link, making up for previous governments messing around with rail (with federal funding i will concede)


Compared to the oppositions current policies of....wait...they must have some ideas of what they will do if they get into power dont they?

Name one reason why people should vote for the opposition

 

[TheBloods]

The transport plan was basically build new roads - that is their (ineffective) answer to overcrowding in Melbourne.

How did they "kept us in great economic conditions"? How did they create employment?

They "secured" water supplies by spending a fortune.

The regional rail link is Federally-funded pork barreling, that will ignore any environmental effects and will destroy houses without any objections allowed, and again (like the desal) is more expensive than needed.

They are failing on basic infrastructure and social services.

Per The Age - "Victoria continues to struggle across a suite of basic services areas: public hospital waiting lists, ambulance response times, congested roads, a public transport system that has failed dismally to keep pace with demand, rising rates of violent crime."

The Liberals have a $1bn health infrastructure fund.
They're increasing funding for rural doctors and nurses.
Adding 1700 police.
Introducing tougher sentencing policies.

 

[1jasonoz]

delete

 

[TheBloods]

As i am currently involved with the RRL i would like you to back up your statements about the RRL project.

The rest of your post is also just waffle as per usual.

Yeah, quality response...
They were questions, which no one can answer, so how can they be "waffle"!
Someone asked what Liberal policies were - I stated some.

Clearly you're a fanboi if you support the Brumby Government... or possibly just clueless given your post.

The Major Transport Projects Facilitation Act was last year criticised by councils and environment groups because it overrode existing rights to court objections to big projects.
...
Mr Madden yesterday announced he would use the laws to push through the Regional Rail Link, a new rail line through the west that will separate V/Line trains from Metro services. Mr Madden also ruled out an environment effects statement for the project.

In August, The Age revealed the government was trying to limit the options for residents to have their say about the controversial new rail line, which will destroy 24 homes and 49 businesses in Labor's heartland western suburbs.

Secret documents prepared by law firm Freehills showed the Department of Transport attempting to reduce the prospect of an environmental effects statement into the new rail line.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/planning-laws-to-fasttrack-rail-link-20101012-16hul.html

THE cost of one of the commonwealth's key job-creating budget projects - a $4.3 billion Melbourne rail link - is more than three times that of the Adelaide-Darwin railway even though it involves just 50km of new track.
...
Victoria's Public Transport Minister Lynne Kosky refused to supply the costings to The Australian.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...ss-country-route/story-e6frgd66-1225715461056

The Brumby Government have form at overspending on infrastructure projects.

 

[1jasonoz]

delete

 

[TheBloods]

Yeh another quality reponse; you stupidly opened your mouth and made claims about the RRL being federally funded pork barreling, that it will ignore any environmental effects and destroy houses without ojected; i asked you to actually back up your statements and you didn't.





Pointing someone out to be dropkick for posting rubbish about a project they know nothing about, doesnt make anyone a fanboi, it simply shows up another dropkick who thinks they can spout of about something they know nothing about.

Clearly you can't read...

 

[Tish]

Victorians are a pretty stupid bunch of people. Wouldn't surprise me If labor won easily. Even given how shit they are and have been for years in Victoria.

 

[CAS79]

Victorians are a pretty stupid bunch of people. Wouldn't surprise me If labor won easily. Even given how shit they are and have been for years in Victoria.

put me down for being stupid

I've lived in three states of Australia and the UK.

This government is not a visionary one it's running an administration. it's keeping things working - transport just admittedly. But it's better than up in NSW where I would be voting Liberal.

But I''m less than a month out from voting and I have no clue as to how the Libs want to shape their first term. And even their cheer leaders here are doing nothing but focusing on the ALP shortcomings.

The best I've got for their policy so far is jail should mean jail and end suspended sentences. on violent crime I agree but not across the board. That policy wont swing me and I really need to know others.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Vote Green and keep the bastards honest, Don Chip would now.

And who keeps those crackpots in check?

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

I will be voting LDP in the senate and donkey vote in the other.

 

[TheBloods]

As mentioned already, the Government is clearly failing on health.

THE extent of Victoria's ''secret'' hospital waiting lists has been revealed, with official figures showing more than 200,000 people are on outpatient lists across the state.
...
[T]he outpatient data, released by hospitals under freedom-of-information laws, shows some patients have been waiting for more than five years for eye care, four years for treatment for allergies and three years for ailments such as knee problems.

The Austin Hospital had the longest list, with 60,000 people listed as outpatients, including 15,000 who had appointments booked but were still waiting for treatment.

It was followed by the Royal Women's with almost 42,000 outpatients, the Eye and Ear Hospital with 30,000 and the Royal Children's nearly 20,000.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/s...000-waiting-for-treatment-20101108-17kmr.html

 

[Slax]

And who keeps those crackpots in check?

At the moment no-one seems to be doing anything about Brumby & Madden

 

[Slax]

Well i think its clear that realistically the Brumby and Bracks governments as you call them are actually just one government...

But ok
- $10b transport plan announced last year
- kept us in great economic conditions despite one of the biggest international economic downfalls in years
- Secured Victorias water supplies
- Regional Rail link, making up for previous governments messing around with rail (with federal funding i will concede)


Compared to the oppositions current policies of....wait...they must have some ideas of what they will do if they get into power dont they?

Name one reason why people should vote for the opposition

$10b transport PLAN - yes, it's a plan that may or may not happen. Has taken them 11 years to start the South Morang rail extension when they've owned the land all the time too.

Secured Victoria's water supplies? I think above average rainfall this winter did that too. But at what cost, many low income earners can no longer afford water bills that have more than doubled because of the desal plant.

Regional rail network is a laugh. Still fails to provide adequate services to most of regional Victorian. Go into the details of what they are doing and you'll find that it's nothing much more than finaling upgrading infrastructure that should've been replaced 25 years ago.

Reason to vote either Green or Lib/Nat
Government to stop overridding councils on planning development
Changes to the whole sentencing laws. Hulls said suspended sentences would be abolished - but that was just another ALP stunt.

 

[Big John]

$10b transport PLAN - yes, it's a plan that may or may not happen. Has taken them 11 years to start the South Morang rail extension when they've owned the land all the time too.

Secured Victoria's water supplies? I think above average rainfall this winter did that too. But at what cost, many low income earners can no longer afford water bills that have more than doubled because of the desal plant.

Regional rail network is a laugh. Still fails to provide adequate services to most of regional Victorian. Go into the details of what they are doing and you'll find that it's nothing much more than finaling upgrading infrastructure that should've been replaced 25 years ago.

Reason to vote either Green or Lib/Nat
Government to stop overridding councils on planning development
Changes to the whole sentencing laws. Hulls said suspended sentences would be abolished - but that was just another ALP stunt.

Thats the point, the rail network has not been adequately maintained for a long time. IMO the government was to slow to move on upgrading rail, but it is making a big investment now to make up for a generation of neglect.

As for the Liberals and greens not overriding councils on planning development, I would tend to agree and its one of the main reasons I'm going to vote Labor. Local councils are absolutely useless and way to focussed on their own little patch of turf to come up with good solutions for Melbourne.

 

[CAS79]

Reason to vote either Green or Lib/Nat
Government to stop overridding councils on planning development

Is that a policy of the Libs?

 

[TheBloods]

Thats the point, the rail network has not been adequately maintained for a long time. IMO the government was to slow to move on upgrading rail, but it is making a big investment now to make up for a generation of neglect.

So they neglected it for more than a decade, but it's okay now because they promise spending some money as an election promise?

As for the Liberals and greens not overriding councils on planning development, I would tend to agree and its one of the main reasons I'm going to vote Labor. Local councils are absolutely useless and way to focussed on their own little patch of turf to come up with good solutions for Melbourne.

Taking planning away from local councils means that the State Government imposes solutions it wants that suit none of the local residents. When people spend money to live in an area they should have a say in what happens to that area, not have some politician or bureaucrat come along and enforce something inappropriate to the area, especially something they would not put in their own areas.

 

[CAS79]

Taking planning away from local councils means that the State Government imposes solutions it wants that suit none of the local residents. When people spend money to live in an area they should have a say in what happens to that area, not have some politician or bureaucrat come along and enforce something inappropriate to the area, especially something they would not put in their own areas.

I agree with this as a general principal but there are also to many inept councils or gutless councils who want to block all development and ban everything or potential corrupt councils.

As a whole I like the concept of deciding everything at local governance level but certain times they need to be overridden for their own good or the good of the state.

 

[TheBloods]

I agree with this as a general principal but there are also to many inept councils or gutless councils who want to block all development and ban everything or potential corrupt councils.

As a whole I like the concept of deciding everything at local governance level but certain times they need to be overridden for their own good or the good of the state.

VCAT is meant to be available to address problems with council, but the whole thing is so badly corrupted that it is useless and simply serves to support State Government and developer objectives, with little to no regard for residents.

 

[pazza]

So they neglected it for more than a decade, but it's okay now because they promise spending some money as an election promise?

As I have said before, the sell-off of the rail infrastructure and network by Kennett, ultimately put the maintenance of all the lines well behind schedule. Therefore it will probably remain behind for even more time to come - just because of the delays caused by the sell-off.

At least longer country services are back running again (e.g. Mildura which went off-line in 1993 and came back in 2000)

Taking planning away from local councils means that the State Government imposes solutions it wants that suit none of the local residents. When people spend money to live in an area they should have a say in what happens to that area, not have some politician or bureaucrat come along and enforce something inappropriate to the area, especially something they would not put in their own areas.

VCAT is a law unto itself most of the time. Hence every single developer gets what they want, because they have the high powered lawyers who can force the issue.

 

[TheBloods]

As I have said before, the sell-off of the rail infrastructure and network by Kennett, ultimately put the maintenance of all the lines well behind schedule. Therefore it will probably remain behind for even more time to come - just because of the delays caused by the sell-off.

It's a joke to continue to blame the previous government when the current one has been in power for more than ten years and achieved very little.

VCAT is a law unto itself most of the time. Hence every single developer gets what they want, because they have the high powered lawyers who can force the issue.

The government could rectify this but don't.

 

[Inferno]

They're going to put Police on every station, how they are going to find these Police I don't know.

It's a silly policy aimed for populism. Having police at every station is a waste, the vast majority of incidents occur at 15 stations out of the 200 odd in Melbourne (places like Footscray, Ringwood, Croydon etc as well as the city stations). I'd rather have police at the worst stations as well as more on the trains then sitting down doing sfa at somewhere like Wattle Glen station.

As I have said before, the sell-off of the rail infrastructure and network by Kennett, ultimately put the maintenance of all the lines well behind schedule. Therefore it will probably remain behind for even more time to come - just because of the delays caused by the sell-off.

This is a problem that goes way back past Kennett. The rail network has had shit all funding for four or five decades. Labor just continued this trend, look at South Morang. They promised to extend the line to there in 1999, 11 years later there is no action and an inexplicable 50 fold increase in the price according to them.

At least longer country services are back running again (e.g. Mildura which went off-line in 1993 and came back in 2000)

Only to Maryborough, and no plans to have services all the way to Mildura.

 

[Big John]

So they neglected it for more than a decade, but it's okay now because they promise spending some money as an election promise?

Taking planning away from local councils means that the State Government imposes solutions it wants that suit none of the local residents. When people spend money to live in an area they should have a say in what happens to that area, not have some politician or bureaucrat come along and enforce something inappropriate to the area, especially something they would not put in their own areas.

With regards to PT I think they did act to late, but probably since the Eddington report I think they have been reasonably on the ball. Can definately understand people not seeing it this way and after 10 years it may be time for a change.

But in regards to alternate strategies, Greens have said everyone gets a train and the Liberals have offered 2 studies into train lines that have been done before and been found not to be cost effective and a silly plan about putting security guards at each station. There would be more security staff than passengers at a lot of stations.