2014 Trade/FA Discussions

[Cockliff38]

I don't usually frequent other boards but I have been sniffing around Essendon i.e. Ryder. Do all boards overate their players like Bombers' fans are? The trades that lot are mooting is ridiculous. With no disrespect to Ryder, who is a very good player, but he didn't reinvent the wheel. The asking price the Essendon board is preaching is Judd-territory, which was PRE free agency! Personally I only hope we get Ryder for the right price, as he's role isn't something we're particularly crying out for.

 

[carnthemlions]

Think there is a grey area unexplored here.

By "Only bringing in A graders" I think Leppa meant "we arent going to just bring in anyone who wants a new club just for the hell of it, they have to be able to offer us something that the players on our list already don't". There is the "depth" argument of course but it sounds like that is something they'd rather do through the draft.

Robinson would certainly do that...

 

[Hollow Knight]

I don't usually frequent other boards but I have been sniffing around Essendon i.e. Ryder. Do all boards overate their players like Bombers' fans are? The trades that lot are mooting is ridiculous. With no disrespect to Ryder, who is a very good player, but he didn't reinvent the wheel. The asking price the Essendon board is preaching is Judd-territory, which was PRE free agency! Personally I only hope we get Ryder for the right price, as he's role isn't something we're particularly crying out for.

There seems to be a misconception there that him being contracted "adds value".

I would agree that being out of contract "reduces value" but that is not the same thing. If Ryder wants out, they are silly to expect "overs".

 

[Nunez]

BigBadBrisbaneBears, post: 35187453, member: 136301"]there really isn't a lot of evidence to support your statement - especially if you take the GH5 as an example. I'd say 2nd round.

For one we're not the type of club who ****s other clubs over. Two, he has shown enough at an elite level to say he will be a very good player. With the right development that is. I can't see Melbourne accepting our second rounder for him.

Is he out of contract? ?

 

[Ironmonger]

Think there is a grey area unexplored here.

By "Only bringing in A graders" I think Leppa meant "we arent going to just bring in anyone who wants a new club just for the hell of it, they have to be able to offer us something that the players on our list already don't". There is the "depth" argument of course but it sounds like that is something they'd rather do through the draft.

Honestly, I think ultimately it doesn't mean anything. I think it's a PR line. It might be a response to the perception that we've picked up a lot of players whose careers appeared to be on the decline in the last five years.

There seems to be a misconception there that him being contracted "adds value".

I would agree that being out of contract "reduces value" but that is not the same thing. If Ryder wants out, they are silly to expect "overs".

I think they just pick and choose the contextual elements that they like the most. Being in contract adds value, wanting to leave reduces value. So ignore the second bit and focus on the first.

One element that I don't think has gotten enough focus is that Ryder has clearly wanted away for some time. This obviously wasn't sprung on Essendon out of the blue. I'd suggest there have been conversations about Ryder's future between himself, his management, and the club for months at least.

I reckon Essendon might have informally committed to trade Ryder at some point. So if they continue to demand a first round pick and an established player, which obviously they won't get, then they run the risk of breaking down trust with the whole playing group at a time when they really, really need it.

That said, I still don't think he's coming to Brisbane.

 

[Viceregal]

Robinson would certainly do that...

And with Raines gone we need people to step up and compete in the 'Most Professional Player' stakes ....

 

[pulpdriver]

Jimmy Toumpas' value has to be a first round Draft pick, but is certainly not pick 4. What do people theorize would be a fair trade for both sides?

Gold Coast
give: 15, Harbrow
get: 5

Brisbane
give: 5
get: Harbrow, Toumpas

Melbourne
give: Toumpas
get: 15

 

[BigBadBrisbaneBears]

Contracted until the end of 2015.

 

[Ironmonger]

Contracted until the end of 2015.

Yeah, he signed a one year extension really early.

FWIW, so did Polec and Karnezis. You could argue in hindsight we'd have been better off trading them at the end of 2012, although there were many complicating factors.

I'd love to get a player who was so highly rated as a junior, but an outside mid coming into his third season just doesn't feel like an area of need for us. Taylor, Cutler and Mayes are in the same age bracket, and Rich and Hanley are about five years older. I reckon we'd have to chase him pretty hard, and I don't really see why we would.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Gold Coast
give: 15, Harbrow
get: 5

Brisbane
give: 5
get: Harbrow, Toumpas

Melbourne
give: Toumpas
get: 15

That feels right on paper for us but it feels like Gold Coast do too well out of it, and that makes me sick

 

[pulpdriver]

That feels right on paper for us but it feels like Gold Coast do too well out of it, and that makes me sick

Yeah, it would feel pretty distasteful to give them a top 5 pick but we probably still owe them an equalizer after what they gave us for Brennan.

 

[SizeMatters]

I wouldn't trade away pick 5 for Harbrow and Toumpas. Harbs is a mid to late first rounder with Toumpas possibly a early second rounder if he is lucky. Harbrow looks good in a side with beast inside mids but IMO will struggle with us.

 

[pulpdriver]

I wouldn't trade away pick 5 for Harbrow and Toumpas. Harbs is a mid to late first rounder with Toumpas possibly a early second rounder if he is lucky. Harbrow looks good in a side with beast inside mids but IMO will struggle with us.

Maybe but I'm just throwing out a deal where all parties might be happy. I still feel like we'd come out on top there but probably because I'm not really too keen on anyone from the draft this year outside McCartin and Brayshaw; both seemingly likely to be gone at 5. I'd assume we would use Harbrow predominantly in defense, don't really have anyone like him on our list since Yeo left. Mayes back to half forward with Toumpas on the other flank. I really rated Toumpas as a junior. Certainly hasn't come on but I don't think he's been fully demonized just yet.

 

[Dylan12]

Taking the position in the draft a player was taken aside, Toumpas at max is worth our second rounder at best. You could argue Yeo and to a lesser extent Polec (who is probably the comparable player in terms of where he was taken in the draft balanced against his output and ultimate net worth when traded to Port) and both showed significantly more than Toumpas ever has, particulaly Yeo, and both those two only netted us, what picks in their mid to late 20's. So our second rounder is about right if Toumpas did want to move to the Lions, contracted or otherwise.

 

[Lionmoe21]

Gold Coast
give: 15, Harbrow
get: 5

Brisbane
give: 5
get: Harbrow, Toumpas

Melbourne
give: Toumpas
get: 15

Maybe swap gc picks to their earlier first rounder and they get melbournes second as well

 

[pulpdriver]

Taking the position in the draft a player was taken aside, Toumpas at max is worth our second rounder at best. You could argue Yeo and to a lesser extent Polec (who is probably the comparable player in terms of where he was taken in the draft balanced against his output and ultimate net worth when traded to Port) and both showed significantly more than Toumpas ever has, particulaly Yeo, and both those two only netted us, what picks in their mid to late 20's. So our second rounder is about right if Toumpas did want to move to the Lions, contracted or otherwise.

We were a victim of circumstance. With all that was happening we were always going to have to accept unders. Can't really use it as a precedent for future trades as it's rare for a club to be bent over from all angles by so many other clubs because so many players are leaving at once. I'm sure second rounder would be the first offer the club makes (assuming it's not in Essendon's hands) but if I were Melbourne I'd just keep Toumpas.

 

[Dylan12]

We were a victim of circumstance. With all that was happening we were always going to have to accept unders. Can't really use it as a precedent for future trades as it's rare for a club to be bent over from all angles by so many other clubs because so many players are leaving at once. I'm sure second rounder would be the first offer the club makes (assuming it's not in Essendon's hands) but if I were Melbourne I'd just keep Toumpas.

I accept that, but still, based on Toumpas' output at AFL level, he really isn't worth anymore than a second rounder.

I reckon if Toumpas had been drafted with a second round + pick, no one would be saying he is worth any more than that.

I've been guilty of it in the past, particularly with respect to the GH5 and where each was taken in their respective drafts, but once a player has been in the AFL system for a number of years as Toumpas has, balanced against how they've adapted to the standard etc., the pick number they were taken in their draft, IMO, becomes obsolete and largely irrelevant.

 

[Ironmonger]

Taking the position in the draft a player was taken aside, Toumpas at max is worth our second rounder at best. You could argue Yeo and to a lesser extent Polec (who is probably the comparable player in terms of where he was taken in the draft balanced against his output and ultimate net worth when traded to Port) and both showed significantly more than Toumpas ever has, particulaly Yeo, and both those two only netted us, what picks in their mid to late 20's. So our second rounder is about right if Toumpas did want to move to the Lions, contracted or otherwise.

The go home five are not a realistic basis for assessing a player's trade value.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Essendon's lawsuit bitchslapped by Middleton.

All eyes on Ryder.

 

[Maboo]

Essendon's lawsuit bitchslapped by Middleton.

All eyes on Ryder.

yeah, just watched the stream, looks like Essendon wasted a bucket full of money. World of pain.

 

[Toffee Lion]

yeah, just watched the stream, looks like Essendon wasted a bucket full of money. World of pain.

I wonder if Lloyd know's that Essendon is in for a world of pain?

 

[Cosmic_Lion]

Essendon's lawsuit bitchslapped by Middleton.

All eyes on Ryder.

 

[Hiltop77]

has anything new on Matt De Boer come out. Or is it still just speculation around whether he will or will not leave fremantle. i wouldn't mind either way but i am hoping that if he does leave we get him because he is quality player and in my opinion could add a lot of depth to the mighty lions

 

[Dylan12]

The go home five are not a realistic basis for assessing a player's trade value.

Fair enough, but as I said, once a player has been in the AFL system for a number of years, balanced against their standing in the AFL abd their level of output etc., the pick number they were taken in their draft, becomes obsolete and largely irrelevant, hence why I'm struggling to see how Toumpas could be worth anything more than a second rounder.

 

[HereIam86]

Why go after Ryder if he might be getting a two year ban