I'd take all of the above over Scott Thompson for this coming season. I hate Port as much as the next but all four of those guys are quality (of varying levels).
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Universal Love 2016/2017 Pre-season Thread
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I'd take all of the above over Scott Thompson for this coming season. I hate Port as much as the next but all four of those guys are quality (of varying levels).
LiamPickering
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Yep but I'd also take Cam Ellis-Yolmen over Scott Thompson atm so not saying a heap really.
That's a bit extreme.
DD#23
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if we were in the Grand Final next week you wouldn't, but in terms of going into next year even if you were giving Cam a 100/1 shot at making it I'd rather take that chance than give Thommo another 20 games.
sub Wigg, Gallucci, Poholke or whoever else you want ahead of Thommo for that matter.
I don't want to see Thommo playing more than 6 games next year, and will be moderately disappointed if he even plays that many. I'd still rather see him playing than CEY.
After 6 years on the list, my mind has been well and truly made up about CEY. He's just not good enough. I'm more than open to seeing other players - Wigg, Gallucci, Poholke, etc. selected ahead of Thommo.
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Agree - the best we can hope for from CEY is that he establishes himself as a regular fringe player (ie the 20th to 22nd guy picked each week). I would prefer to spend those games developing someone else.
If we are relying on CEY to be the difference for us then we are a bottom 8 side.
Best way to pick a team and develop a player is make them earn it.
If they get runs on the board in two's they deserve their opportunity
Let them prove themselves and not gift them a spot
Not suggesting that anyone should be gifted a spot. CEY has proven over a period of time that he's not AFL standard, just a good SANFL player. Selecting a player who is, at best, only ever going to be the 21st or 22nd best player in the team, is a complete waste. I would prefer to see selection priority given to players with a higher ceiling, even if they don't have the SANFL runs on the board that CEY has.
If you want runs on the board, then Knight and Greenwood should be the first cabs off the rank to replace Thommo & Lyons. I would be quite happy if that were to be the case. Knight is already a better player than CEY will ever be, and will be even further ahead with a full pre-season behind him. Greenwood had a better 2016 than CEY (according to the SANFL B&F voting), and has a much higher ceiling. Beech was also better than CEY in 2016, according to the coaches, but I don't think he has the potential that Greenwood shows.
The likes of Gallucci and Poholke are largely unknown at this stage. I want to see them in the pre-season games before I decide whether or not I think they should get AFL action in 2017. As for Wigg.. I'm really not sure where he stands now, or into the future. He could have missed his window of opportunity in 2016, with newer draftees (e.g. Doedee, Gallucci, Poholke) going past him in 2017 - maybe.
CEY was clearlly the best players in the two's last year, your and my opinion on him is fairly irrelevant, if you dont promote effort and results your culture will be effed, similar to that of the Matty Primus Gold card system of selection.
Plyaers will become disillusioned and players will leave at the drop of a hat, maybe that is why we have lost so many.
Best way to pick a team is be consistent with selection, which should be results driven firstly. CEY clearly deserves a crack, but if he doesnt get results you can drop him, see how that consistency works!
GreyCrow
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I think the one thing Wigg will have going for him is familiarity. He should now be comfortable enough to start flexing some muscle . Ironically this gets back to marty36 and his best performing player in the SANFL if he wants a game in 2017
GreyCrow
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I don't disagree, but to me this actually tells me more of CEY and his personality than his last 5 years. That he chose to stay in the familiar comfortable surrounds of the AFC says he is comfortable plodding along
To be fair I was critical of him at the start of last season, but I cant fault him for the way he went about it in the two's, whether he can become a star player or not is a bit unknown, but he needs to be rewarded, not only for himself but so other players see, you get the results you get rewarded. Wigg and Greenwood also had good years, but how many can you promote without stuffing up team balance and experience in the team. But clearly those getting results should get first crack.
or there were no suitors so seeing out his contract with Adelaide was the only way to try and save his career.
GreyCrow
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This is where most of the frustration we saw from this year. CEY got 2 games , looked ok ( not starring) then dropped back once the replacement came back in. This points to your '' fear of unbalancing'' which I think we will continue to see a Pyke trademark.
GreyCrow
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Yep, fair point. Either way its up to him.
CEY was not "clearly the best player in the twos", given that he only finished 4th in the SANFL B&F. What you, or I, think is largely irrelevant. The coaches all rated Beech, Greenwood & Grigg ahead of him.
There are, and always have been, conflicting priorities when it comes to team selection - best players and youth development are both often conflicting. There is little point in selecting a 7th year player, even if they were the 4th best SANFL player last year, if they are already at their ceiling and their ceiling is barely good enough to justify selecting them in the team. You're almost always going to be better off in the longer term, by picking a younger kid who has far more upside, even if they don't have the same "runs on the board" as the borderline 7th year player.
The only player who is likely to become disillusioned by the non-selection of CEY is CEY. Everyone else will immediately understand the reasoning behind the decision, and get on with training & playing as normal. It could be disheartening for CEY himself, but that's life on the fringe of an AFL team.
There is nothing clear at all about CEY deserving "a crack". He's not in the 3 best players we had in the SANFL this year, 4 if you count Knight, who was injured for most of the year. Looking past Knight, Greenwood & Beech, there are other youngsters on our list who are not far behind in SANFL performance and who have far more upside than CEY - all of these should (and probably will) be given opportunities ahead of CEY.
I'm really not sure where Wigg stands right now. In the middle of the season he was a regular feature on the emergency list, yet they chose to select VB when the vacancy opened up - a missed opportunity, both for Wigg and the selectors. By the end of the year he'd fallen back, with players like Henderson & Seedsman taking his place as the emergency.
This year we'll have more young midfielders competing for positions - Milera, Doedee, Hampton, Menzel, Gallucci, Poholke, ... Is his ceiling high enough to prevent some (or all) of these players going past him? I'm really not sure.
Sanfl voting. Despite Cam missing games. Ummm if my maths is right Cam has more votes than Greenwood. Check the facts before you post Vader. Also you might want to watch Greenwood before saying he has a higher ceiling than Cam. Considering he is 24 and older than Cam I dont see much improvement in him. He has a bit of X factor but not near the player of Cam.
State League Club Champion Leaderboard – Top 10
1. Jonathon Beech – 185
2. Mitch Grigg – 178
3. Harrison Wigg – 174
4. Reilly O’Brien – 173
5. Cam Ellis-Yolmen – 163
6. Hugh Greenwood – 162
7. Tom Doedee – 156
8. Dean Gore – 141
9. Keenan Ramsey – 137
10. Andy Otten - 130
Greenwood also played every game and still couldnt get more votes than Cam
Apologies for not getting the top-4 right. I thought it was Beech, Grigg & Greenwood in the top-3. CEY finishing 5th, behind ROB & Wigg makes an even bigger mockery of marty's claim that CEY was "clearly" the best performed player we had in the magoos.
I have seen a bit of Greenwood, before Ch7 cut the late night SANFL broadcasts. He may be slightly older than CEY, but he's only been on an AFL list for 12 months (having spent several years playing basketball). CEY hit his ceiling a while ago. Greenwood still has a fair bit of development left, and looks to be a very exciting prospect.
On a votes per game basis, the top-10 was:
Beech - 10.3
Wigg - 9.7
CEY - 9.6
ROB - 9.1
Grigg - 8.9
Doedee - 8.7
Otten - 8.7
Greenwood - 8.1
Ramsey - 7.6
Gore - 7.1
Even on that basis, CEY was still only the 3rd best SANFL player.
On a votes per game basis, Doedee is the shining star - finishing equal 6th in his first SANFL season.
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Marty talking a lot of sense in this thread.
If I were Wigg I'd be asking to spend time both in midfield and defence in sanfl and I'd be gunning after Brown's spot
If he can defend anywhere near the same he may get his chance with that brilliant kick of his
I think you need an emoji to signify the sarcasm.
Say what you like most who watched the SANFL, would agree CEY tore it up, most thought he was brownlow favorite yet didnt pole well, I suppose that is the opinion of those handing out votes. If CEY wasnt in teh guts in the two's this year we would have lost a number of games more.
Im not saying he will be a champ, but his effort is deserving of him to be given the opportunity, more so than any other seconds player, but Wigg also deserves a shot. The question is how many deserve a go without taking too much away from the team.
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I'm not sure that Wigg is quick enough to make it as a lock down small defender, he certainly isn't as fast as Brown anyway. I'm not sure what Wigg is like in aerial contests either? He looks very small and light.
I thought that the main reason Wigg moved into the midfield was because it didn't look like he would be able to get a game playing in defence.
CEY is one of those many, many, players who were very good at SANFL level, but not good enough at AFL level. Mitch Grigg finished ahead of him in the B&F, and was delisted. Lyons played most of the season in the AFL team, ahead of CEY, and was pushed out the door to GC. CEY belongs in the same group - players who just aren't/weren't good enough to push beyond fringe selection.
I appreciate that he's put in a lot of hard work, and I can see where you're coming from suggesting that he should be given a go. He's done 6 years in the SANFL and was one of our better players last year. If "fair go" was a selection criteria, then he'd definitely be getting a game. Unfortunately for him, the AFL isn't about a "fair go", it's a harsh meritocracy - and CEY just doesn't merit selection.
I can think of several players who are more meritorious, or who have stronger cases for selection - Wigg (merit), Knight (merit), Beech (merit), Greenwood (greater upside), Doedee (upside). CEY will just have to wait his turn in the queue, with an ever increasing number of players pushing ahead of him in a race to the front.
