List Mgmt. 2016 Trade and Free Agency Targets Part 1

[Verdun66]

Should be in the Trade thread, but Free Agency will nab us a couple. Will be our turn. But I see why they don't want to go too early. Imagine the timing being we got the 'Goddard/ Dal Santo' type/ilk for a 3 years or so contract. That would make us a pretty good side. In 2010 who would have thought G/DS would be gone.

I mean this in a positive way, that clubs on the rebuild will let these types of guys go. Unless they change the rules on us! Some players we think untouchable now will move. We have the dough, we have the developing team. Attractive to the right players.

 

[gringo2011]

Freeman, Dunstan, Ross, Longer, Acres, Webster, MacKenzie, Membrey, Templeton I would trade in a heartbeat. Zero of them would get a game at Hawthorn. Every time I see Touk Miller play I want to vomit.

I think you are freaking people out being an insider and losing your shit. I have a guy at my footy club who is a minor celebrity and a Dees insider. Last year he was so down on them and saw no light coming. A good preseason and you would think they were making space in the trophy cabinet. I was laughed at for saying Clayton Oliver would be Dangerfield good but he looked special. The Dees bravely took him earlier than expected like the Dogs did with Stringer. Sometimes when you do that you get spuds sometimes it's a gun. We won't know what we have for a while yet I thought B Goddard was a bust and didn't see much in Joey for a long time. Just enjoy the fact Collingwood should be bottom of the ladder next week.

 

[plugger66]

I think you are freaking people out being an insider and losing your shit. I have a guy at my footy club who is a minor celebrity and a Dees insider. Last year he was so down on them and saw no light coming. A good preseason and you would think they were making space in the trophy cabinet. I was laughed at for saying Clayton Oliver would be Dangerfield good but he looked special. The Dees bravely took him earlier than expected like the Dogs did with Stringer. Sometimes when you do that you get spuds sometimes it's a gun. We won't know what we have for a while yet I thought B Goddard was a bust and didn't see much in Joey for a long time. Just enjoy the fact Collingwood should be bottom of the ladder next week.

Insiders don't say those things. He probably watches a lot of training and has an opinion. We are 8 players short of being a top 4 side and I'm an insider. I'm inside my house as I type this. We will get those 8 players in the next 2 to 3 years.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Jeez the doom and gloom has started already and we haven't even played yet. :O

Yeah. really looking fwd to this place at about 5o'clock

 

[bergholt]

In 6 months time if two of ross acres Dunstan etc Really develop then this entire conversation becomes laughable.

Sure. You can say "if they develop" all you want but it doesn't really mean anything. If we win a flag in the next ten years then the whole argument is moot too, but the discussion is about whether that occurs based on the evidence in front of us.

Personally, based on exposed form, I don't believe those three will all get there and that's the crux of the argument. Specifically:

• Dunstan had a disappointing second year so has work to do this year, but should become a Boak-style warrior
• Ross will be the least damaging 20+ possession midfielder in the competition, reminds me of a slightly bigger Rischitelli
• Acres could be anything or nothing, what we've seen so far on the AFL field isn't remotely promising

We'll know a lot more by the end of this year, about those guys and plenty of others. Only a few guys on our list that we actually have certainty about, tbh. All of these and more are questions that will be answered this year:

• Savage - a really good player or just a streaky half-back flanker?
• Roberton - a flexible third tall defender/tall mid or a too short key defender/useless mid?
• Newnes - proper A-grader in AA contention or just a run-of-the-mill solid B-grader?
• Weller - AFL standard or lacking any standout qualities?
• Hickey - good ruck/forward or Cameron Cloke?
• Webster - quick rebounding defender a la Enright or loose defender who occasionally gives run?
• Curren - close to AFL standard or just a good VFL player?
• Shenton - any position at AFL level or an in-between type?
• Lee - enough work ethic or not?
• Membrey - short AFL medium forward or another in-between type?
• Holmes - can he make enough progress quick enough?
• Freeman - can he even get out on the park?
• Saunders, Murdoch, Wright, Minchington, Pierce - any future at AFL level?

If too many of those questions come up negative then we're skipping yet another generation of players and falling back to the Billings+Lonie+Goddard+McCartin+McKenzie+Gresham group, which I really like but they're 4+ years from all getting there. That's 2020.

Whereas if the middle group of players (mostly mentioned above) turns out good then we could be in serious contention by 2018.

So yes, to your original point, we'll know a lot more in six months. But let's not pretend that signs are completely positive about all these guys.

 

[gringo2011]

Insiders don't say those things. He probably watches a lot of training and has an opinion. We are 8 players short of being a top 4 side and I'm an insider. I'm inside my house as I type this. We will get those 8 players in the next 2 to 3 years.

I guess insider is a loose term - he seems to have some access to the club. He's not Trout obviously but he seems to be more involved with the inner sanctum than most on here. Anyway you seem to say that a lot of the people you know are happy to question players abilities or personalities so it's possibly true they are questioning their picks. I think we have got a few right and a few wrong so far and agree we need to get at least 8 to a higher standard but some are probably already at the club.

 

[plugger66]

I guess insider is a loose term - he seems to have some access to the club. He's not Trout obviously but he seems to be more involved with the inner sanctum than most on here. Anyway you seem to say that a lot of the people you know are happy to question players abilities or personalities so it's possibly true they are questioning their picks. I think we have got a few right and a few wrong so far and agree we need to get at least 8 to a higher standard but some are probably already at the club.

Don't agree but who cares. As for your comment about a lot of people I know well I don't get what you mean by that. And I hope a few are at the club. Even if a couple are I think we are still about 8 players short. Its a chance for a few to shine today against Port.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Insiders don't say those things. He probably watches a lot of training and has an opinion. We are 8 players short of being a top 4 side and I'm an insider. I'm inside my house as I type this. We will get those 8 players in the next 2 to 3 years.

That's a fair call...however whether any of those 8 slots can be filled by people already on the list or whether they need to be brought in to the club via draft/trade/free agency remains to be seen

 

[gringo2011]

Anyone see oliver get 17 touches at h/f in first gane of afl! Gun

Melb got a beast!

I loved him as a junior, was my favourite, he has an ability to assert himself like Judd and Dangerfield have. I reckon he could be a superstar in a few years. I wish we had found a way to nab him.

 

[Loyal Sainter]

Well this thread is a bundle of joy. Talk about miserable
Whilst I completely agree that we need more elite mids, they'll come via draft or trade. We're rebuilding. Not sure why people are expecting us to be Hawthorn already.
Dees have had top 5 picks for 10 years and GWS, well we know the help they've had.
We seriously need to calm the farm. We'll get there. It's only day one of the 2016 season. Sheesh.

 

[Rors]

Some more perspective....

Clayton Oliver 1st game:
5 kicks
17 handballs
2 marks
2 tackles
15 CP
7 clearances

Luke Dunstan 1st game:
15 kicks
6 handballs
7 marks
7 tackles
8 CP
5 clearances

We all know we need some more elite talent, but we already have some very good-to-elite talent on our list, we've just got to get behind them & back them in. Some kids don't become a elite until they've been in the system for 4-6 years, FFS let's give our kids some time before we write them off. We'll add another top 10 draft pick this year, & hopefully trade for a gun kid in the 21-23 yr old age bracket as well.

Once these are added to the mix, along with natural development, things won't look so bad.

Then we also throw Carlisle into the CHB position for 2017 & things start to look even better.

Let's all just see how the year plays out before we start saying that our list is void of elite talent & just full of foot soldiers

NB: posted this in another thread, but copied it to here as it is more relevant to this discussion. Cheers Mods

 

[Stewart66]

Freeman, Dunstan, Ross, Longer, Acres, Webster, MacKenzie, Membrey, Templeton I would trade in a heartbeat. Zero of them would get a game at Hawthorn. Every time I see Touk Miller play I want to vomit.

Very very happy with all those players myself .
Could have picked Judd , could have picked Rioli.
Rather look forward not back want the Saints to have a even list of 38 players .
Excited what is happening with team myself regardless of results this year.

 

[stavro#4]

Sure. You can say "if they develop" all you want but it doesn't really mean anything. If we win a flag in the next ten years then the whole argument is moot too, but the discussion is about whether that occurs based on the evidence in front of us.

Personally, based on exposed form, I don't believe those three will all get there and that's the crux of the argument. Specifically:

• Dunstan had a disappointing second year so has work to do this year, but should become a Boak-style warrior
• Ross will be the least damaging 20+ possession midfielder in the competition, reminds me of a slightly bigger Rischitelli
• Acres could be anything or nothing, what we've seen so far on the AFL field isn't remotely promising

So yes, to your original point, we'll know a lot more in six months. But let's not pretend that signs are completely positive about all these guys.

i believe Dunstan is a similar type of player to Jack Viney, stats seem to be pretty similar after 2 years, even with Dunstan carrying his shoulder injury, FYI Viney broke out in his third season(2015);
Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2015 St Kilda 19 8.8 8.2 17.0 3.3 0.6 0.4 3.7 0.2 0.6 0.7
2014 St Kilda 16 8.9 9.8 18.8 3.7 0.6 0.4 3.8 0.1 0.9 0.9 0.12
2014 Melbourne 20 9.4 10.5 19.8 2.8 0.2 0.4 4.4 0 1.2 1.0
2013 Melbourne 13 9.1 8.4 17.5 2.8 0.2 0.3 4.2 0 1.5 1.1 0.15

for a laugh lets compare Blake Acres to Jobe Watson's first 4 seasons;
Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2015 St Kilda 7 6.3 5.6 11.9 2.6 0 0.1 2.6 1.4 0.3 0.9
2014 St Kilda 3 3.7 5.0 8.7 1.0 0.3 0 2.7 0 0.3 0
2006 Essendon 21 9.7 13.1 22.8 5.4 0.3 0.3 3.3 0.1 1.0 0.4
2005 Essendon 5 4.6 6.4 11.0 2.8 0.4 0 1.0 0 0.4 0.2
2004 Essendon 7 5.3 6.0 11.3 3.3 0.9 0.3 2.3 0 0.3 0.3
2003 Essendon 1 0 2.0 2.0 0 0 0 2.0 0 0 0

Yep, looks fairly similar to me for players of the same build.Kind of explains the 4 year contract extension....

Finally Seb Ross, i have chosen Jimmy Bartel to use as comparison as i think Seb reminds me alot of Jimmy early in his career
Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2015 St Kilda 10 9.3 8.9 18.2 2.6 0.1 0.3 4.1 1.0 0.8 0.6
2014 St Kilda 13 8.6 7.2 15.8 2.7 0.1 0.2 3.3 0.4 0.3 0.5
2013 St Kilda 13 5.5 9.6 15.2 2.7 0.2 0.1 3.2 0.1 0.5 0.8
2012 St Kilda 1 5.0 3.0 8.0 0 0 0 4.0 0 3.0 0
2006 Geelong 21 14.1 8.9 23.0 6.6 0.7 0.6 3.8 0.2 0.9 1.0 0.10
2005 Geelong 24 11.4 8.2 19.6 5.5 0.8 0.2 3.9 0 0.7 1.5 0.41
2004 Geelong 16 13.9 7.9 21.8 5.6 0.2 0.5 4.9 0.1 0.7 0.7 1.00
2003 Geelong 13 5.5 6.6 12.1 2.8 0.4 0.2 2.4 0 0.8 0.4
2002 Geelong 11 6.4 6.3 12.7 2.6 0.3 0.2 2.4 0 0.9 0.9 0.27

So, Jimmy broke out in year 5. Ross will break out this year and if he had a full season last year would of broken out then and i am not a big fan of Ross(evident in me wanting him traded for Carlisle)

Now under no circumstances am i saying the above are going to turn out like those players. They are just some players who have similar attributes that i thought of very quickly. the thing is that they need time and pre seasons, especially in a struggling side. SO i dont know why people are throwing majority of our kids into a pile and saying they arent good enough already and the need to trade them out and effectively start over again.

Mckenzie, Savage, White, Webster, Freeman,Hickey,Longer,Goddard,McCartin, Billings,Lonie,Gresham,Sinclair,Roberton,Newnes,Rice,Bruce,Weller - Could be anything. So yes i am in the "i believe the nucleus of our future finals contender is already here" group. Do i think we still need 2-3 high quality mids? Yes! but i firmly believe we will develop alot of these players into high quality players. Stkilda of 03-11 was highly praised and flashy early on, Geelong - a slower build, went bang in 07 and did not have as much fan fare as us even though internally they believed they were better. Back us, thats all i can really say.

 

[plugger66]

i believe Dunstan is a similar type of player to Jack Viney, stats seem to be pretty similar after 2 years, even with Dunstan carrying his shoulder injury, FYI Viney broke out in his third season(2015);
Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2015 St Kilda 19 8.8 8.2 17.0 3.3 0.6 0.4 3.7 0.2 0.6 0.7
2014 St Kilda 16 8.9 9.8 18.8 3.7 0.6 0.4 3.8 0.1 0.9 0.9 0.12
2014 Melbourne 20 9.4 10.5 19.8 2.8 0.2 0.4 4.4 0 1.2 1.0
2013 Melbourne 13 9.1 8.4 17.5 2.8 0.2 0.3 4.2 0 1.5 1.1 0.15

for a laugh lets compare Blake Acres to Jobe Watson's first 4 seasons;
Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2015 St Kilda 7 6.3 5.6 11.9 2.6 0 0.1 2.6 1.4 0.3 0.9
2014 St Kilda 3 3.7 5.0 8.7 1.0 0.3 0 2.7 0 0.3 0
2006 Essendon 21 9.7 13.1 22.8 5.4 0.3 0.3 3.3 0.1 1.0 0.4
2005 Essendon 5 4.6 6.4 11.0 2.8 0.4 0 1.0 0 0.4 0.2
2004 Essendon 7 5.3 6.0 11.3 3.3 0.9 0.3 2.3 0 0.3 0.3
2003 Essendon 1 0 2.0 2.0 0 0 0 2.0 0 0 0

Yep, looks fairly similar to me for players of the same build.Kind of explains the 4 year contract extension....

Finally Seb Ross, i have chosen Jimmy Bartel to use as comparison as i think Seb reminds me alot of Jimmy early in his career
Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2015 St Kilda 10 9.3 8.9 18.2 2.6 0.1 0.3 4.1 1.0 0.8 0.6
2014 St Kilda 13 8.6 7.2 15.8 2.7 0.1 0.2 3.3 0.4 0.3 0.5
2013 St Kilda 13 5.5 9.6 15.2 2.7 0.2 0.1 3.2 0.1 0.5 0.8
2012 St Kilda 1 5.0 3.0 8.0 0 0 0 4.0 0 3.0 0
2006 Geelong 21 14.1 8.9 23.0 6.6 0.7 0.6 3.8 0.2 0.9 1.0 0.10
2005 Geelong 24 11.4 8.2 19.6 5.5 0.8 0.2 3.9 0 0.7 1.5 0.41
2004 Geelong 16 13.9 7.9 21.8 5.6 0.2 0.5 4.9 0.1 0.7 0.7 1.00
2003 Geelong 13 5.5 6.6 12.1 2.8 0.4 0.2 2.4 0 0.8 0.4
2002 Geelong 11 6.4 6.3 12.7 2.6 0.3 0.2 2.4 0 0.9 0.9 0.27

So, Jimmy broke out in year 5. Ross will break out this year and if he had a full season last year would of broken out then and i am not a big fan of Ross(evident in me wanting him traded for Carlisle)

Now under no circumstances am i saying the above are going to turn out like those players. They are just some players who have similar attributes that i thought of very quickly. the thing is that they need time and pre seasons, especially in a struggling side. SO i dont know why people are throwing majority of our kids into a pile and saying they arent good enough already and the need to trade them out and effectively start over again.

Mckenzie, Savage, White, Webster, Freeman,Hickey,Longer,Goddard,McCartin, Billings,Lonie,Gresham,Sinclair,Roberton,Newnes,Rice,Bruce,Weller - Could be anything. So yes i am in the "i believe the nucleus of our future finals contender is already here" group. Do i think we still need 2-3 high quality mids? Yes! but i firmly believe we will develop alot of these players into high quality players. Stkilda of 03-11 was highly praised and flashy early on, Geelong - a slower build, went bang in 07 and did not have as much fan fare as us even though internally they believed they were better. Back us, thats all i can really say.

Stats stats and lies. You could also compare these guys to many players that have failed. Lets face it 50% of the guys we think will make it now wont. We just need to get a couple of A graders out of the young guys we have. Either way we are still around 8 players short of being a top 4 side, maybe even a top 8 side. I'm happy with how we have recruited. If only we spent money on recruiting in the early to mid 2000's then we still maybe like the Hawks and challenging. Also a proper football manager who understood the SC would have helped. It seems we have that all in place now.

 

[crasha301]

I loved him as a junior, was my favourite, he has an ability to assert himself like Judd and Dangerfield have. I reckon he could be a superstar in a few years. I wish we had found a way to nab him.

You picked it.

Could Def have a judd like first 50 games.

 

[Verdun]

Stats stats and lies. You could also compare these guys to many players that have failed. Lets face it 50% of the guys we think will make it now wont. We just need to get a couple of A graders out of the young guys we have. Either way we are still around 8 players short of being a top 4 side, maybe even a top 8 side. I'm happy with how we have recruited. If only we spent money on recruiting in the early to mid 2000's then we still maybe like the Hawks and challenging. Also a proper football manager who understood the SC would have helped. It seems we have that all in place now.

Geez Plugger all our players could develop and we dominate finals and you'll still moan moan moan

 

[plugger66]

Geez Plugger all our players could develop and we dominate finals and you'll still moan moan moan

Obviously you didn't read my post. No moaning at all. Said we are on the right track. Please read before you have a go at me.

 

[Verdun]

Obviously you didn't read my post. No moaning at all. Said we are on the right track. Please read before you have a go at me.

Fair call, agree with your comment re our previous recruiting and that we are now on the right track. I often state that to mates who support other clubs ie we tried to pinch a flag and now we are doing it properly may have jumped the gun on your post apologies!

 

[crasha301]

I think we are 2 elite mids, 1 3rd tall defender and a genuine winger short.

Very happy with the spine and the fwd line.

 

[Barrels]

I think we are 2 elite mids, 1 3rd tall defender and a genuine winger short.

Very happy with the spine and the fwd line.

White could very well be either of the last two, and Gresham WILL be one of the first.

 

[crasha301]

White could very well be either of the last two, and Gresham WILL be one of the first.

No doubt on gresh

 

[Rors]

As for the 3rd tall/intercept defender, everyone raves about how well Easton Wood.... Do people realise that he's only 186cm tall?

Same height as Shane Savage....

IMHO, Bull Murdoch or Brandon White (both 188cm) would be well suited in this role

 

[Joffaboy]

We will also need to find a KPP Forward to help Paddy after Josh walks at the end of the season

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

We will also need to find a KPP Forward to help Paddy after Josh walks at the end of the season

 

[StKing11]

Some more perspective....

Clayton Oliver 1st game:
5 kicks
17 handballs
2 marks
2 tackles
15 CP
7 clearances

Luke Dunstan 1st game:
15 kicks
6 handballs
7 marks
7 tackles
8 CP
5 clearances

We all know we need some more elite talent, but we already have some very good-to-elite talent on our list, we've just got to get behind them & back them in. Some kids don't become a elite until they've been in the system for 4-6 years, FFS let's give our kids some time before we write them off. We'll add another top 10 draft pick this year, & hopefully trade for a gun kid in the 21-23 yr old age bracket as well.

Once these are added to the mix, along with natural development, things won't look so bad.

Then we also throw Carlisle into the CHB position for 2017 & things start to look even better.

Let's all just see how the year plays out before we start saying that our list is void of elite talent & just full of foot soldiers

NB: posted this in another thread, but copied it to here as it is more relevant to this discussion. Cheers Mods

Shhh.. You're talking logically and making sense, no place for that around here.