Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[juzza316]

many people didn't believe the dawks could get both omeara and mitchell however a way was worked out.

At this stage reasonably confident that in sos we have someone who could make getting a fyffe and one other eg shiel a real possibility.

the key will be in convincing fyffe to choose us because that will make it easier for shiel to pick us also. The fact both players are off contract should remove some of the negotiation power their clubs might have.

go to work now gurusos and co, starting slowly and with ultimate stealth bound them in blue.

Omeara is injury prone and not proven whilst Mitchell was Sydney's 3rd or 4th best midfielder. Not comparable in currency to Fyfe who is a brownlow medalist and Shiel who is arguably the best or 2nd best Giants midfielder.

If we get both Fyfe and Shiel I will personally drive you to and from every Carlton home game in 2018 in a navy blue hummer with pictures of shiel and fyfe on the bonnet.

 

[passmark]

Fyfe over-rated ?

Shiel is simply not a better player than him, not now, not ever.

The ONLY reason I'd hesitate to get Fyfe would be a crippling price tag or crippling back or leg injury.

He's a machine!

 

[Jeremias]

We won't get both Fyfe and Shiel but it's not completely absurd to suggest it could happen. If both wanted to come I'm confident that the required deals would be done.

Fyfe leaving Fremantle as a FA would certainly make things interesting.

 

[passmark]

We won't get both Fyfe and Shiel but it's not completely absurd to suggest it could happen. If both wanted to come I'm confident that the required deals would be done.

Fyfe leaving Fremantle as a FA would certainly make things interesting.

Freo are imploding.

There's a disconnect between the coach/club and the players as well as factions in the playing group. As well as the well reported shenanigans some players are up to there's not a lot of harmony.

Lots of bad blood down at the Port . I reckon Fyfe is 70% out the door already.

 

[Jeremias]

Freo are imploding.

There's a disconnect between the coach/club and the players as well as factions in the playing group. As well as the well reported shenanigans some players are up to there's not a lot of harmony.

Lots of bad blood down at the Port . I reckon Fyfe is 70% out the door already.

I agree it seems likely that Fyfe will be on the move at the end of the season.

More specifically, though, I was talking about Fyfe leaving as a FA vs Fremantle matching a bid and forcing a trade.

 

[bmaurizio]

I'm sure Silvagni & Bolton would have already devised a plan and have begun working on one or two Marquees players.
We'll have ample flexibility to offer a great remuneration package especially, if the club has decided to let Gibbs go.

 

[passmark]

More specifically I was talking about Fyfe leaving as a FA vs Fremantle matching a bid and forcing a trade.

Erm, yes. Simply putting it out there that he's a big chance to move.

Fyfe has also done a"Gibbs" and told Freo they need to show him why he should be a part of their future.

Which might mean Freo don't put up the fight we might expect.

 

[ShanDog]

Fyfe over-rated ?

Shiel is simply not a better player than him, not now, not ever.

The ONLY reason I'd hesitate to get Fyfe would be a crippling price tag or crippling back or leg injury.

He's a machine!

I'd lean towards Shiel being better suited to what we need. His kicking is better and is much quicker. Replacement for Murphy basically, who if fit, would be receiving the Cripps bandpass clearance and running it out of stoppages.

 

[HARKER]

And our next pick would be fourth round or later? Doesn't work for me.

Who cares, if we've achieved what we set out to do and got the best players into the club as cheaply as possible?
Not having a third rounder (pick ~45) isn't going to make or break us.

Getting premium talent through the door, at the cheapest rate possible is what we want....whilst trading to advantage.

 

[bmaurizio]

Next years trade period will be our turn to generate some very attractive big offers to a FA , we'll almost have no other option with the amount of salary cap mobilit available.
Every team will have an opportunity very simple and after another clean out and possibily one or two trades time will be right to make our move.
Go Baggers

 

[HARKER]

Unfortunately, its a change in a Carlton supporters mentality of late.
I tend to still believe and even try to keep positive that we can play finals in 2017.
I will keep an eye on trades, be silly not too, but main focus is paying finals in 2017!

That's true but things have changed as already we know draft names to look out for next year.
Free Agency has added speculation amongst supporters and then we also have the ability to buy into the future.
If (and when) the draft age is raised to 19, we may well be talking two years into the future. It will happen.

 

[TheKing101]

Stop worrying. We worry too much...
Rebuilds and resets and age profiles and depth and on and on and on it goes...

I'm all for strategies and planning, but sometimes as supporters we overthink...

Having players like Shiel and/or Fyfe at our club is a good thing. Having really good players at our club is a good thing, being competitive is a good thing...

This isn't directed at you King. It's just that every time a good player is linked with us, I read post after post stating arguments against recruiting them...

I realise our "old ways" have a few of us traumatised, but we can't just dismiss the fundamentals of footy... Good players in your side create a better team, club and culture and are conducive to success...

Fair post Coach!

 

[Coona Blues]

I really do not believe Shiel is on the short term radar. AFLPA still pushing for FA in less than 8 years, so the opportunity may come up sooner than expected. We are not in the position yet to trade out our first pick. An acquired first rounder is perhaps a different story, and there are a number of creative ways we could acquire one next trade period. This would give us the bait for a second tier signing

Bottom line is Shiel would require more than a mid/late first rounder, so let's just cool our heels for a year or two. The question also arises as to when he would be eligible as a FA, having been pre listed as a 17yo (was tied to the club)

MS3 made a cameo mention of Hopper, I am unsure of the credibility or how far along "negotiations" may be. Many, myself included, have grabbed on to the twice seriously mentioned rumour of Peter Wright being on the horizon next season. If we are to "force a trade", these two would be ideal targets.

As for posters classing Fyfe as over rated, they have NFI. Won the Brownlow playing 3/4 of a season before virtually losing a year to injury. There is no reason to think his leg will remain an issue, and his back is no worse than our own Crippa's. The bloke still holds the mantle as the game's number 1 player until proven otherwise. He will be available as a FA.

An ultra professional player renown for being demanding of himself and his team mates has to be asking questions regarding Freo's management.
Yarran, Bennell and McCarthy (Sylvia previously) do not instill confidence in their recruitment philosophies. Pavlich has been the fabric that binds at that club, and is gone. Lyon is somewhat foreign to the concept of developing young players, let alone a team of them. Can't see Fyfe copping the discipline dramas or the prospect of roving to someone lesser, post Sandi. Expecting more opposition from St Kilda than Freo for his signature.

Bolton's mantra and the prospect of being able to share the heavy lifting with Cripps should get NF over the line (along with a Grandaddy front loaded contract)

 

[passmark]

I really do not believe Shiel is on the short term radar. AFLPA still pushing for FA in less than 8 years, so the opportunity may come up sooner than expected. We are not in the position yet to trade out our first pick. An acquired first rounder is perhaps a different story, and there are a number of creative ways we could acquire one next trade period. This would give us the bait for a second tier signing

Bottom line is Shiel would require more than a mid/late first rounder, so let's just cool our heels for a year or two. The question also arises as to when he would be eligible as a FA, having been pre listed as a 17yo (was tied to the club)

MS3 made a cameo mention of Hopper, I am unsure of the credibility or how far along "negotiations" may be. Many, myself included, have grabbed on to the twice seriously mentioned rumour of Peter Wright being on the horizon next season. If we are to "force a trade", these two would be ideal targets.

As for posters classing Fyfe as over rated, they have NFI. Won the Brownlow playing 3/4 of a season before virtually losing a year to injury. There is no reason to think his leg will remain an issue, and his back is no worse than our own Crippa's. The bloke still holds the mantle as the game's number 1 player until proven otherwise. He will be available as a FA.

An ultra professional player renown for being demanding of himself and his team mates has to be asking questions regarding Freo's management.
Yarran, Bennell and McCarthy (Sylvia previously) do not instill confidence in their recruitment philosophies. Pavlich has been the fabric that binds at that club, and is gone. Lyon is somewhat foreign to the concept of developing young players, let alone a team of them. Can't see Fyfe copping the discipline dramas or the prospect of roving to someone lesser, post Sandi. Expecting more opposition from St Kilda than Freo for his signature.

Bolton's mantra and the prospect of being able to share the heavy lifting with Cripps should get NF over the line (along with a Grandaddy front loaded contract)

If we get Fyfe I'll be that excited I'll wear a Carlton jumper again for the first time since 1982.

 

[ParapMarkets]

I really do not believe Shiel is on the short term radar. AFLPA still pushing for FA in less than 8 years, so the opportunity may come up sooner than expected. We are not in the position yet to trade out our first pick. An acquired first rounder is perhaps a different story, and there are a number of creative ways we could acquire one next trade period. This would give us the bait for a second tier signing

Bottom line is Shiel would require more than a mid/late first rounder, so let's just cool our heels for a year or two. The question also arises as to when he would be eligible as a FA, having been pre listed as a 17yo (was tied to the club)

MS3 made a cameo mention of Hopper, I am unsure of the credibility or how far along "negotiations" may be. Many, myself included, have grabbed on to the twice seriously mentioned rumour of Peter Wright being on the horizon next season. If we are to "force a trade", these two would be ideal targets.

As for posters classing Fyfe as over rated, they have NFI. Won the Brownlow playing 3/4 of a season before virtually losing a year to injury. There is no reason to think his leg will remain an issue, and his back is no worse than our own Crippa's. The bloke still holds the mantle as the game's number 1 player until proven otherwise. He will be available as a FA.

An ultra professional player renown for being demanding of himself and his team mates has to be asking questions regarding Freo's management.
Yarran, Bennell and McCarthy (Sylvia previously) do not instill confidence in their recruitment philosophies. Pavlich has been the fabric that binds at that club, and is gone. Lyon is somewhat foreign to the concept of developing young players, let alone a team of them. Can't see Fyfe copping the discipline dramas or the prospect of roving to someone lesser, post Sandi. Expecting more opposition from St Kilda than Freo for his signature.

Bolton's mantra and the prospect of being able to share the heavy lifting with Cripps should get NF over the line (along with a Grandaddy front loaded contract)

It wasn't ms3 that suggested Hopper, but I agree with most of what you have said. I think Peter Wright would be extremely expensive in a trade and Shiel's cost would be significant.

There seems to be quite a few murmurings that Hopper would like to come to Melbourne, he would be an amasing get. Not sure what he would cost in a trade but if we could get him with a 2018 first rounder and pick up Fyfe as a free agent it would be insane, we would have a seriously talented side with enormous upside.

 

[Jimmae]

I really do not believe Shiel is on the short term radar. AFLPA still pushing for FA in less than 8 years, so the opportunity may come up sooner than expected. We are not in the position yet to trade out our first pick. An acquired first rounder is perhaps a different story, and there are a number of creative ways we could acquire one next trade period. This would give us the bait for a second tier signing

Bottom line is Shiel would require more than a mid/late first rounder, so let's just cool our heels for a year or two. The question also arises as to when he would be eligible as a FA, having been pre listed as a 17yo (was tied to the club)

MS3 made a cameo mention of Hopper, I am unsure of the credibility or how far along "negotiations" may be. Many, myself included, have grabbed on to the twice seriously mentioned rumour of Peter Wright being on the horizon next season. If we are to "force a trade", these two would be ideal targets.

Shiel and Hopper are both out of contract, and it was barass that made the comment on Hopper.

 

[Red Bull]

It wasn't ms3 that suggested Hopper, but I agree with most of what you have said. I think Peter Wright would be extremely expensive in a trade and Shiel's cost would be significant.

There seems to be quite a few murmurings that Hopper would like to come to Melbourne, he would be an amasing get. Not sure what he would cost in a trade but if we could get him with a 2018 first rounder and pick up Fyfe as a free agent it would be insane, we would have a seriously talented side with enormous upside.

Barass70 mentioned Hopper and he has a lot of runs on the board .
Of course it's a long way off but Hopper would come a lot cheaper than Shiel .
GWS are always looking for future draft picks and I'd be happy to part with our 2018 1st rounder for Hopper .

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Who cares, if we've achieved what we set out to do and got the best players into the club as cheaply as possible?
Not having a third rounder (pick ~45) isn't going to make or break us.

Getting premium talent through the door, at the cheapest rate possible is what we want....whilst trading to advantage.

Do not agree Harker.

You want to be doing extremely well to give up high draft picks.Collingwood gave up future picks for Treloar (who is a good player), had a bad year and had no real impact on the draft this year and it's trading and FA was very short term ... Melbourne too had no impact on draft after giving up future picks for last year's drafting ... Geelong is perhaps the one club who can afford to give up high picks considering the strength of their list.

Would rather the GWS idea of getting a pick before the academy bid (or in our case the father son bid) is made, or another first round pick in the same draft.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Barass70 mentioned Hopper and he has a lot of runs on the board .
Of course it's a long way off but Hopper would come a lot cheaper than Shiel .
GWS are always looking for future draft picks and I'd be happy to part with our 2018 1st rounder for Hopper .

Yep, I couldn't agree more. I saw Hopper's debut game where he had 32 disposals and something like 10 clearances, he's a massive talent and if we could get him for 2018 first pick like you originally suggested I would be over the moon. And if we add Fyfe to that for free along with 2017 first round pick, well there will be several "happy tissues" at my place.

 

[ParapMarkets]

I'm just curious to know what people who think we shouldn't get a star free agent think we should do with the cap money, and where they plan on getting high draft picks from if we keep trading away all our value for them?

Yes, recruit Fyfe or next years equivalent of Mayne and Vickery, not really much of a debate. Unless we go back to overpaying our players we need to spend it on someone and Fyfe would be the perfect target.

Frontload the hell out the contract and he won't cause a cap problem either.

 

[passmark]

I'd lean towards Shiel being better suited to what we need. His kicking is better and is much quicker. Replacement for Murphy basically, who if fit, would be receiving the Cripps bandpass clearance and running it out of stoppages.

If you want straight out midfielder Shiel is brilliant. If we got him I'd be over the moon.

But Fyfe in full flight is something else.

 

[HARKER]

Do not agree Harker.

You want to be doing extremely well to give up high draft picks.Collingwood gave up future picks for Treloar (who is a good player), had a bad year and had no real impact on the draft this year and it's trading and FA was very short term ... Melbourne too had no impact on draft after giving up future picks for last year's drafting ... Geelong is perhaps the one club who can afford to give up high picks considering the strength of their list.

Would rather the GWS idea of getting a pick before the academy bid (or in our case the father son bid) is made, or another first round pick in the same draft.

Maybe we just don't know exactly what each other are getting at.

Red Bull put up a trade scenario, that simply makes for perfect sense in order for us to get to being more than just a competitive outfit and the good thing in that scenario would be the timing of it as much as for the quality we'd be gaining.
It's all about getting all your ducks in a row and in a couple of years time....all being well....we'll have a very strong cake primed for a couple of cherries on top. ........all being well.

 

[HARKER]

If you want straight out midfielder Shiel is brilliant. If we got him I'd be over the moon.

But Fyfe in full flight is something else.

I made the comment about the age gap yesterday but it really isn't as much as I first thought.
I tend to look at how old a player will be through the course of the season and using that gauge, they're only really one season apart.

Funny thing about Fyfe is that other teams also seem to feel that they almost have him in the bag. See St.Kilda as the primary club, here.

 

[ParapMarkets]

I made the comment about the age gap yesterday but it really isn't as much as I first thought.
I tend to look at how old a player will be through the course of the season and using that gauge, they're only really one season apart.

Funny thing about Fyfe is that other teams also seem to feel that they almost have him in the bag. See St.Kilda as the primary club, here.

Yeah and quite a few Hawks fans think the same. Still a long shot but we would be silly not to be throwing our hat in the ring.

 

[passmark]

I made the comment about the age gap yesterday but it really isn't as much as I first thought.
I tend to look at how old a player will be through the course of the season and using that gauge, they're only really one season apart.

Funny thing about Fyfe is that other teams also seem to feel that they almost have him in the bag. See St.Kilda as the primary club, here.

I can't see him at the Aints but you never know.

The beauty for Fyfe is he can look at how all these teams shape up in 2017 before signing.