List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 2

[Dr Spaceman]

The Paddy v Tracca one is odd given one's a car the other a tractor.

Melbourne got the tractor and are yet to win a flag with him in the side.

Saints got Clunky McClunkface and are yet to win a flag with him in the side.

So far too early to start making any absolute statements in regards to getting it right or getting it wrong.

 

[St Significant]

If we go back to 2013, in order for the 5 year plan to be a success we needed to nail both our trading and drafting (in particular 2013 & 2014). I think we have done a good job at the trade table. Bringing in blokes like Bruce, Membrey & Steele for peanuts has been terrific.

However, I think we have significantly missed the mark with are drafting. Sure it is early days but a lot needs to go right from here to justify some of the decisions made in recent years. Our blokes have had plenty of picks in good draft years to work with. If we look at a year by year analysis:

2013
Billings - It was the right call. Everybody rated him at pick 3, even though Bont and others have been better Billings was a universal top 3 pick.
Dunstan - Horrible call in the context of where we were at. Dunstan was widely picked as a major slider at the time. Not a massive ball winner, average skills, slow. It was a reach. We left Merret, Lobb, Dumont on the table.
Acres - Fair enough, was rated as a top 15 prospect.
Rating: B

2014
McCartin - Sorry but this looks like a fail. Most clubs had Petracca as the number 1 pick, we had McCartin.

If we were absolutely hell bent on getting a tall forward, we could have easily done the deal whereby we gave up pick 1 and our 2nd rounder for 4 and 7. Pick 4 was always going to get Peter Wright, and pick 7 could have landed a Lever.

McCartin has so many weaknesses in his game, it can't be ignored. I am not a draft expert, but I do remember watching Peter Wright's highlights thinking to myself, how can you pass on a bloke this big that kicks the footy like this. His kicking action is sensational. Also, how bloody handy would a second ruck be?

Meanwhile, McCartin's kicking for goal is horrible. This is a bit of a problem when you have other obvious limitations to your game. He will be a decent player, but far too many holes in his game to be a star.

Goddard - Hasn't worked out yet, but was the right call. No issue there.

McKenzie - Pretty average call at this stage. Another bloke that has poor disposal, ffs. Plenty of other options, including Touk Miller.
Lonie - If we are going to recruit a midget, why not recruit the midget that actually dominated junior footy? If Daniel is too small, then surely Lonie is too small also?

Rating E

Sure this is all hindsight. I personally wouldn't have a clue about the draft, but we seem to differ from the consensus quite regularly.

Other examples are how high we seemed to rate White, Laverde, Hartung, Mathieson etc. It is ultimately a guessing game, but we have not uncovered 1 major surprise packet under Trout's tenure. We have had plenty of picks to nail 1 surprise packet.

It is a harsh critique but a fair one IMO. Our drafting has been average-poor when we could least afford it to be.

Spot on St Bill, you have nailed this critique of our drafting record and, as you say correctly, our trading in of players is what has improved our list rebuild more than drafting. If Richo and his coaching staff are copping some criticism with our performances of late then I think it is also time that Trout and his team cop some as well!

 

[Yawkey way]

Forget highlights packages, if they don't look good in those they never will.

Recruiters are out watching club and school games before these kids even make it to the tac clubs. Then they watch them at all the various age group rep carnivals. Talk to them, their coaches, parents, friends and schools, it's a bit more than yeh I saw him play once.

I used to go to the rep games here and watch them on the box, even then the sample size is very small. I remember watching Brendan Goddard at the MCG he was good not great.

I wouldn't have had him down as a top 10 pick, the recruiters did. He took a while but I think he lived up to it some of these players people are writing off will come good just give them some time.

Some of course will be busts but remember it is in part a projection, these are kids we're talking about. If Fyfe hadn't had a large growth spurt would he be the player he is today?, who could pick that?.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I've done my hindsite sliding doors drafts. Its to do with spotting talent. ie comparing what our guys thought was the best talent and what it actually was. Not saying that many other clubs wouldn't have got it wrong as well.

2011. Totally Nailed it, With the original picks we had, we could not have done better than Ross, Newnes , and Webster. We also got to try out Saad and Milera , both of who were well and truly worth trying. We could have got Lincoln McCarthy instead of Jay Lever i suppose. Rating A+.

2012. We got Hickey, and Wright. Could have got Grundy. If we had got Grundy and Hickey we would have not needed to get Longer the following year. Real sliding doors stuff. Was Tom Lee a Watters call? Take James Stewart over Spencer White. It wasn't a strong draft and its really cherry picking to get the good players out of it. But maybe we tried to be too clever. Surely somehow we could have put pressure on the Cripps trade to make Koby Stevens come to StKilda, he was NOT a free agent. C.

2013. We got Bruce, Billings , Dunstan, Acres, Longer Savage. Still very happy with the Bruce trade, but we could have had:
Bruce, Bontempelli, Matt Crouch, Zach Merrett, and Toby Nankurvis and Savage. So not a washout , but not the best possible result in a very strong draft.
Rating: C-

Dunstan at the time looked very promising. He was not the underage spud that some here are trying to insinuate.
" Highly touted for his ability to play the game, Dunstan also boasts leadership credentials likely to see him selected inside the top 20. The Woodville-West Torrens product was captain of the victorious South Australian team in the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships, also winning All-Australian honours. Dunstan averaged 23 disposals of which almost 40 per cent were contested, making him a joint winner of SA's MVP award. He has been sidelined of late by a leg injury, marking a disappointing end to a solid year, but it is an injury which will have little bearing on his draft position."

2014: Still too many unknowns.

 

[L_W_P]

We are a couple of A grade mids off having that 'No Excuses' team for finals. This has been the plan the whole time. We would have used pick 10 on a top mid last year but the Hawks deal was too good to pass up so we delay by 12 months and double dip this year.

Imagine if we had Petracca right now with everything staying the same. The form of Bruce and Membrey would have to be a massive concern and with Roo on his last legs our potential gun KPF is nowhere to be seen. We would be hoping the club went hard after Sam Reid as a FA and we would be talking about trading for Sam Day or Jack Redpath or some other injured/depth player who needed a fresh start.

Let Paddy play out the rest of the season. Build some chemistry with Bruce and Membrey. Calm the midfield down and try to actually deliver the ball instead of banging it in blindly. At the end of the year we might add Kelly. We might add Fogarty and Higgins, I would actually prefer this option while chasing Tom Rockliff.

Either way there will be some elite skills coming into the club and those players will have an immediate impact ala Petracca. Paddy will have spent 15 games busting his arse to mark Jack Steven's shanks and he will be better for it when Acres, Fogarty and co are drilling it to him lace out in 12 months time!

 

[theprospect]

Would be curious to know how the Bont v Billings comparison stacks up this year.

 

[saintsmania]

True we could have.
Is your mobile device broken? , mine has a little feature where it puts words like could and have in after i start them, making it actually easier than writing cud and hve.

Yep all gud with my mobile..just hve this habit of using shortcuts..as long as it makes sense

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Gavinmitchell11]

Paddy will have a big one this week. He looked in form last Friday and will surely get more opportunities this Friday. I'm excited.

 

[holllywood]

View attachment 380960

Show's that he is building very nicely, which is a great sign.

But it is also further evidence that the 'eye test' is just as important as looking at stats.

 

[BangersAndMash]

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The only major discrepancy there is the tackle average really

 

[stavro#4]

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Alot of posters believe Billings is shit. So those stats must be a lie.... He can't be having as good of a season as the GOAT Bont

 

[Sheepey]

Alot of posters believe Billings is shit. So those stats must be a lie.... He can't be having as good of a season as the GOAT Bont

Bontempelli is having a bit of a down season in comparison to 2016, while Billings has undeniably improved.

 

[Glen Buterol]

Alot of posters believe Billings is shit. So those stats must be a lie.... He can't be having as good of a season as the GOAT Bont

Bont has reached his ceiling, Billings is & will continue to improve

 

[Periphery]

While I don't think Billings is as good as Bont, the fact that he's getting those numbers as a mid forward is pretty impressive. Imagine what he'd be getting as a full time mid.

 

[bennymc7]

While I don't think Billings is as good as Bont, the fact that he's getting those numbers as a mid forward is pretty impressive. Imagine what he'd be getting as a full time mid.

Hard to say, i dare say if we get back on the winning side teams will start to try and shut him down as our really classy player (similar to dal getting tagged) so could end up playing closer to goal to capitalise on 1 on 1s

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

So because he missed the 1st two goals - he doesn't have X factor?
Big footy, never ever, ever, change.

My response to 'Praise Petracca' mob was as short-sighted as any of the muppets bemoaning not taking CP.

Making a point that you obviously missed.

The Petracca circle jerk is growing to ridiculous levels though.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Of course you have a disabled sibling...

Feel free to go through all of my posts since I have been here and find one where I posted anything resembling your nonsense. I bet you won't.

I criticise players based on their footy. I don't make it personal.

And yes I will judge you because you posted it - fact. If you think it was funny, then once again, it's a reflection on your character.

On the one hand, you think casting a personal slur on someone who can't defend themselves is OK, but on the other you get all touchy when I call you out and tell me not to judge you? Lol.

Maybe you misunderstood. I critiscised our list management department for taking mccartin and mccartin himself for seemingly not losing the excess weight it looks like he needs to lose. He is also in my opinion to short and to slow to be a good kpf but this could change in time.

I didn't get touchy though. I really couldn't care less what you think about me. I was just providing a different perspective but what does actually offend me is you calling me a liar. If you'd like I can give a detailed description of my sibling's disability and the impact that's had on my life but I assume you're not interested and that's fine.

Finally, what I find funny is not a reflection of my character it is a reflection of my humour. And it's not a personal slur it's a joke. Paddy seems like a great guy, I just don't think he's a very good footballer. I am done arguing with you now though.

 

[BilboJackins]

Show's that he is building very nicely, which is a great sign.

But it is also further evidence that the 'eye test' is just as important as looking at stats.

Let's also not forget he's playing as a HFF and not a mid who rests forward!

 

[Louis Slungpue]

Bont has reached his ceiling, Billings is & will continue to improve

IMO the game has gone past the Bont he's the slowest player of all time has no awareness he's the most overrated player of all time won't be on an afl list in 5 years time

 

[AFLOnline]

7 tackles vs 3 is the underlying stat why Bont is and always will be a better player than Billings.

Sure Billings might eventually go into the midfield and get a few more touches than Bont, but Jack is incredibly weak when it comes to tackling. Far to many players just brush him off like he's nothing.

 

[Periphery]

7 tackles vs 3 is the underlying stat why Bont is and always will be a better player than Billings.

Sure Billings might eventually go into the midfield and get a few more touches than Bont, but Jack is incredibly weak when it comes to tackling. Far to many players just brush him off like he's nothing.

Or it just indicates that Bont plays in the middle all the time...

 

[VDS66]

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So apart from one playing more inside, there is no longer such a chasm between them. Thanks for the post.

Just a random thought... if we were trying to get Kelly in 13 / 14 would our perspective be different?

Back then he would have a player to build the team around whereas now he's the icing.

 

[dewah07]

Or it just indicates that Bont plays in the middle all the time...

Bonts more physical at tackling, it's not a controversial take at all.

 

[VDS66]

Yep all gud with my mobile..just hve this habit of using shortcuts..as long as it makes sense

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Oh, plz m8!

 

[Periphery]

Bonts more physical at tackling, it's not a controversial take at all.

Player that gets more opportunity to tackle has more tackles?! I'M SHOCKED AND APPALLED THAT BILLINGS IS SO BAD.