List Mgmt. 2017 Trade & FA Targets Part 2

[Hayes4PM]

But I wanted Fyfe, Jelly and Martin.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Just read the Jay Clark article and it sure does mostly imply that we're the ones who have pulled out of the race for Fyfe. If so, we wouldn't have done it for no reason.

One important paragraph says: "The Saints were previously considered a front runner for Fyfe but have dropped off and are targeting midfield speed."

Perhaps we're happy with what we're going to have on the inside going forward and now see speed, spread and perhaps also footskill as more of a necessity than adding an "inside beast".

"The Herald Sun has confirmed the Saints will zero in on other trade targets including GWS midfield jet Josh Kelly."

If it's speed we're mainly after not going after Fyfe any more could also make it easier for us to go really hard for someone like Zac Jones.

I'd personally prefer a Kelly/Jones combo over just Fyfe and maybe we think we're a really good chance of pulling something like that off.

As I've said previously, the only way I would have been really comfortable with giving up both a huge amount of cap space AND two first rounders for Fyfe would have been if we felt like we'd be a massively chance of winning the flag while Roo and Joey were still playing.

Right now that looks more unlikely than likely, so I wasn't unhappy to see this news re Fyfe.

 

[gringo2011]

So say we did convince Jelly to come to us, would we prefer a first rounder this year and a first rounder next year or both this year's? Bit wary of parting with both this year's as that would leave us out to the third round, would rather not do what the Hawks did last year and what we did a lot in the mid 00's, trade out until deep in the draft and have to pick up Sweeneys, Raymonds, Begleys, Johnsons, Pattisons, Eljays, etc.

Richmond took Pattison at 16 in the draft, Polo at 20 in the same draft then got Oakley-Nicholls and Tambling instead of Buddy or Roughy. That went a long way to them spending a long time in the wilderness.

 

[Sir Skid]

Surprising part was, we were informed of their capability and yet still dumb enough to take both Pattison and Polo off Richmonds hands.

 

[gringo2011]

Just read the Jay Clark article and it sure does mostly imply that we're the ones who have pulled out of the race for Fyfe. If so, we wouldn't have done it for no reason.

One important paragraph says: "The Saints were previously considered a front runner for Fyfe but have dropped off and are targeting midfield speed."

Perhaps we're happy with what we're going to have on the inside going forward and now see speed, spread and perhaps also footskill as more of a necessity than adding an "inside beast".

"The Herald Sun has confirmed the Saints will zero in on other trade targets including GWS midfield jet Josh Kelly."

If it's speed we're mainly after not going after Fyfe any more could also make it easier for us to go really hard for someone like Zac Jones.

I'd personally prefer a Kelly/Jones combo over just Fyfe and maybe we think we're a really good chance of pulling something like that off.

As I've said previously, the only way I would have been really comfortable with giving up both a huge amount of cap space AND two first rounders for Fyfe would have been if we felt like we'd be a massively chance of winning the flag while Roo and Joey were still playing.

Right now that looks more unlikely than likely, so I wasn't unhappy to see this news re Fyfe.

That's the subtext I read into as well. We really need someone outside with a bit of pace and ability to spread. Steele, Dunstan, Armo and Steven are all a bit one paced. The last few weeks teams have left Ross to run with a player and stopped Jack Steven getting any run and have completely shut us down, getting Kelly and maybe even a Jasper Pittard to play on a wing would be nice. Two good users who can get out into space and run.

If we were going to have to give up millions in cap space and all our high picks to get Fyfe he all of a sudden gets a lot less appealing. As a free agent it all looked great but there is a huge risk in the trade for our two firsts.

 

[gringo2011]

Surprising part was, we were informed of their capability and yet still dumb enough to take both Pattison and Polo off Richmonds hands.

Polo was a guy who would show enough to make you believe at times and then just have games where he looked invisible. Pattison was a ruck who at 6 years into his career and a pick in the 60s was worth it as cheap back up. Probably not the worst idea for what we gave up they just weren't what we needed to add to take us to the next level. probably not playing Steven and Armo earlier was a bigger mistake.

 

[Rors]

Got a link?

All I've ever seen is this kind of stuff:
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-04/afl-statement-competitive-balance-policy

NEW TPP BANKING MECHANISM
• Introduce a new TPP banking mechanism that allows Clubs to spend over 100% of the TPP and ASA limits (combined limit), if in any of the preceding two years the Club spent below 100% of the combined limit
• The permitted amount of overspend is commensurate with the level of underspend in the relevant preceding period - for instance, if a Club was $500k below the combined limit in 2015, they can spend up to $500k over the combined limits across 2016 and 2017
• The overspend amount in any given year permits a Club to spend up to a maximum of 105% of the combined limit in that year
• This mechanism is effective from season 2015 (as such any underspends in 2013 and/or 2014 can be recovered in 2015)

http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/2015-2016 CBA FINAL.pdf

Page 19 - Item 13 - point (f)

Thus, if we don't overspend next year, we lose the right to do it. So in effect, it's a 7 year cycle - you can only pay 95% for up to 3 years, then can only have 1 year at 100%, before having to pay the 105% or you lose the right to the 105% spend

 

[aussierulesrules]

So say we did convince Jelly to come to us, would we prefer a first rounder this year and a first rounder next year or both this year's? Bit wary of parting with both this year's as that would leave us out to the third round, would rather not do what the Hawks did last year and what we did a lot in the mid 00's, trade out until deep in the draft and have to pick up Sweeneys, Raymonds, Begleys, Johnsons, Pattisons, Eljays, etc.

If we only needed to trade two of our available 3 first rounders I would definitely be leaning towards trading one of this year's and next year's first, over both of this year's.

For one, it gets someone into the club 12 months earlier than if we drafted someone else 12 months later, with a similar pick and it gets 12 months of development into them, so that they'll hopefully be ready to really contribute sooner.

One exception tho would be if we say didn't rate the draft around pick 10 or didn't think anyone around that pick suited our needs.

Another reason to potentially hold onto next year's first would be because we could use it in a trade next year. That would of course give us someone more ready-made for the 2019 season than if we drafted someone with pick 10-ish this year. Then again next year we could trade our 2019 first.

So there really are genuine pros and cons for each option.

Would largely depend on who was available around the area of our picks this year and how keen we are on them. If we're really keen, probably trade next year's first. If we're not, trade both of this years and take the punt that we'll get more out of next year's first, next year.

 

[Cobbler]

Or they have run a form line over Fyfe and he's not playing the kind of football he was when he was a Brownlow medalist, big risk if he's going to cost $1.6 mill a year.

Also said in the article we are after midfielders which Fyfe is kind of a utility rather than your pure mid. Same with Dusty really, both can play anywhere but neither are full time pure mids even if they could be. I think Kelly suits our needs a lot better, he's inside and outside and he is 100% midfield.

1.6 million a year now? Just keeps going up.
Whilst I respect your opinion, I disagree strongly.
If Fyfe was seriously looking at going to Saints, your club seriously look at it. End of.
No one rules out anyone IMO at this stage of the year unless there's more to it and his form wouldn't be the reason.

Fyfe 98% being at Freo and Kelly a better option would likely be the reason.

With all due respect his form would still put him in every clubs top 2 mids and you don't rule that out of your options ever.

 

[goodie23]

Richmond took Pattison at 16 in the draft, Polo at 20 in the same draft then got Oakley-Nicholls and Tambling instead of Buddy or Roughy. That went a long way to them spending a long time in the wilderness.

Deledio went pick 1 in the Roughy, Griffen, Tambling, Buddy draft. Oakley-Nicholls went at 8 the next year. Neither of those drafts were particularly deep or impressive, wrong time to be loading up.

 

[JG22]

Kelly really is the whole package there's no doubt

 

[aussierulesrules]

the problem is the two first rounders are going to take time to come on, whilst our best is in his prime at 27. so you're in this tough position of having to replace your best mid and find more

roberton, carlisle 26

plus the free agency pool next year is absolute shizen

the art of list management is to build a side that will peak at the same time, not scatter in players over a long period

While it's true that our best in the midfield is 27yo, there's now very little in it between him and Seb, who has only just turned 24, and we also have some more genuine midfield talent who are a good chance of making Seb-like improvements in the next few years, in Steele, Acres and Gresham and maybe/hopefully even Dunstan, Sinclair and Freeman.

If we were to then add another young "jet" to that group (from the top 5 of this year's draft) and maybe another good one from pick 10ish, we could be building a killer midfield for the future.

Then next year, with mountains of cap space, we go mega-hard at someone like Sloane.

Then in 2019 if we land him we have a midfield of say Sloane, Steven, Ross, Steele, Stevens, Acres, Gresham, Newnes, Billings etc, with the two we got with top 10 picks this year developing under them and we could be pushing really hard for a flag from then on. Steven by then could still have 4 or more good years in him.

 

[Crusty Undies]

While it's true that our best in the midfield is 27yo, there's now very little in it between him and Seb, who has only just turned 24, and we also have some more genuine midfield talent who are a good chance of making Seb-like improvements in the next few years, in Steele, Acres and Gresham and maybe even Dunstan and Freeman. If we were to then add another young "jet" to that group (from the top 5 of this year's draft) and maybe another good one from pick 10ish, we could be building a killer midfield for the future.

Then next year, with mountains of cap space, we go mega-hard at someone like Sloane.

Then in 2019 if we land him we have a midfield of say Sloane, Steven, Ross, Steele, Stevens, Acres, Gresham, Newnes, Billings etc, with the two we got with top 10 picks this year developing under them and we could be pushing really hard for a flag from then on. Steven by then could still have 4 or more good years in him.

Nah this is a terrible idea cos we'd actually be taking midfielders with top 10 picks

 

[gringo2011]

Kelly really is the whole package there's no doubt

there is always the element of risk in any trade but his are harder to see than Fyfe's. Fyfe might be a bit of an Ablett where you have a jet that spends more time in the hanger than on the park and when he does you get glimpses of the past rather than full flight. Kelly is already playing excellent footy and he still has a huge scope for improvement at his age. If we had to give up big money and 2 draft picks Kelly would be my preference by far. If Fyfe was a free agent I would happily pay up and take on the risk but it sounds like that wasn't going to happen.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

We pulled back on Fyfe for a reason. Now, ultimately we may not get our plan over the line - personally I think we're having an almighty crack at landing Kelly - but the Fyfe deal is not a bad one to walk away from give the cost in 1st round picks and salary cap.

With our picks we'll be getting A grade talent through the door one way or another.

 

[lethalsaints]

Kelly really is the whole package there's no doubt

Hes a one in a decade type player. Does it all. When they asked Leon Cameron a hypothetical question, Who would you pick to have as your son in law from the list?
He said Josh Kelly almost instantly.
Tells me hes a good fella off field too.

 

[gringo2011]

Nah this is a terrible idea cos we'd actually be taking midfielders with top 10 picks

It sounds good to me, if we can develop these mids quickly they keep out a player on the fringe or one goes forward like Toby Greene. Otherwise we use Hawks pick on the best mid and our one on a third tall defender. It's meant to be a strong draft for talks so could be good.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Pick 4 (Hawf) and our 2018 1st for Kelly and our 2017 2nd round pick back.

2017 2nd round pick (25-29 ish) and Hickey to Richmond or the Dogs maybe? Maybe get something decent.

 

[Crusty Undies]

It sounds good to me, if we can develop these mids quickly they keep out a player on the fringe or one goes forward like Toby Greene. Otherwise we use Hawks pick on the best mid and our one on a third tall defender. It's meant to be a strong draft for talks so could be good.

No I was only joking I would be perfectly content taking 2 picks to the draft and getting 2 mids. We just never do lol.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Hes a one in a decade type player. Does it all. When they asked Leon Cameron a hypothetical question, Who would you pick to have as your son in law from the list?
He said Josh Kelly almost instantly.
Tells me hes a good fella off field too.

Apparently potential captaincy material as well.

 

[Brains Trust66]

Ok , bit of an out there pick, restricted free agent Gary Rohan any interest ?


Sent via HAL

 

[StCicatriz]

While it's true that our best in the midfield is 27yo, there's now very little in it between him and Seb, who has only just turned 24, and we also have some more genuine midfield talent who are a good chance of making Seb-like improvements in the next few years, in Steele, Acres and Gresham and maybe/hopefully even Dunstan, Sinclair and Freeman.

If we were to then add another young "jet" to that group (from the top 5 of this year's draft) and maybe another good one from pick 10ish, we could be building a killer midfield for the future.

Then next year, with mountains of cap space, we go mega-hard at someone like Sloane.

Then in 2019 if we land him we have a midfield of say Sloane, Steven, Ross, Steele, Stevens, Acres, Gresham, Newnes, Billings etc, with the two we got with top 10 picks this year developing under them and we could be pushing really hard for a flag from then on. Steven by then could still have 4 or more good years in him.

i'm going down the path of looking at the whole 2020 strategy and what may need to change... will post a massive tl;dr post tonight about it

 

[66sainter]

Never understood the like/ love for Jack Leslie last year but he's gonna be a very good footballer

 

[Quixote]

Post injury Fyfe is yet to prove he's the same player as pre injury Fyfe. Understand people saying they're feeling flat, the only thing that will truly fix that is a Cup. However, it's not wise to dwell on the micro -- the big picture for St Kilda right now is still very good. No doubting Fyfe remains a gun but maybe O'Meara has people thinking? I'm backing in our plan and our team, don't underestimate Ameet. In my mind, Fyfe/Martin/Rockcliff are all non-prospects for us. Means we're chasing a Kelly or Whitfield or combo of players. Worse case scenario we retain 2 first round draft picks, though I think they'll go hard this trade period and land at least 1 player. Yep there's definitely tweaking needed but I feel we're not far away and with a couple of quality additions through that midfield, game-on... No point comparing to other Clubs like Geelong, who seemingly enjoy a great run of success and dubious advantage... That ain't our lot, never will be, we're the Saints, we're the original underdog and when we do finally raise the Cup in September -- it will be like nothing else.

 

[Rors]

Ok , bit of an out there pick, restricted free agent Gary Rohan any interest ?


Sent via HAL

Bit tough considering he's re-signed til 2020