2017 Trade & FA Targets - The Last Supper #Ameetos

[Mowman]

With only a 1st, 4th & 5th round next year I am 100% convinced we have at least 1 if not 2 UFA's lined up for next year.
Interesting given the way next years draft has been talked about.

We must have a player in mind with the late 2nd rounder we picked up for this year.
One to be de-listed yet

Like we did this year ?

 

[Savatage]

When do we start the sloane to saints 2018 thread?

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Too soon.

 

[gringo2011]

Have to agree super draft or not second rounders seem to be hit or miss and consistent over the years, might as well trade forward for the extra development. If you trust trout to get the second right next year (using it for a trade is different) you'd trust him yo get it right now. Yes having it available to trade is different but really using a 2018 or 2019 second for a trade isn't a huge difference.

Yeah we could have traded it for Jack Steele types instead though. Trout doesn't have great eye for spotting late talent in the draft that turns out to be genius like Geelong, Bulldogs and Sydney recruiters do. Weaker draft with worse pick seems like a reason not to trust him to.

 

[StCicatriz]

Have to agree super draft or not second rounders seem to be hit or miss and consistent over the years, might as well trade forward for the extra development. If you trust trout to get the second right next year (using it for a trade is different) you'd trust him yo get it right now. Yes having it available to trade is different but really using a 2018 or 2019 second for a trade isn't a huge difference.

combine it with this graphic:


players ages next year are in the brackets, look at the core group of strong performing players. do we really think we can wait another 12 months before we get access to more talent, with players like steven 28, carlisle 27, bruce 26, ross 25 etc.

it makes sense to be trying to get our hands on the talent now. mids are the quickest to develop and richmond had a number of very green players performing in that flag side, as did the doggies.

if we need to have a presence in the 2nd round next year, then we will find a way to get back into. worst case you just trade your 2019 2nd out for a 2018 2nd, which there will always be clubs willing to do that due to the academy/father son system

 

[aussierulesrules]

Funny. Was listening to the Junktime podcast in Feb. Had on an ex list manager who said this draft top 10 was chokers with KPP's and then lots of quality mids.

Dont know what happened between then and now but where are these KPP's?

Things change. Hunter Clarke was head and shoulders standout in under 16's.

Having followed most drafts closely since Smith Brown and Jones arrived from the 1994 draft and I was like "what is this beautiful draft thing all about!", my theory is that pretty much every year there are "talls" who look extremely promising in their underage year, and look like they could be the next Riewoldt/Brown/Lynch.

Hence the talk that the next year's draft looks better, but then the following year many of them don't live up to the hype and they either stagnate or go backwards, thus making that draft look a lot weaker than it had been looking like it might be the year before.

By which time there is a fresh new batch of "talls" looking very promising for the following year, prompting calls that "next year's draft is better".

Hugh Goddard was one example of this. Seen as someone who could go pick 1 a year or two out from his draft, but ended up going 21.

This time last year Brander was seen as in the mix to go pick 1 this year and Connor Ballenden and Hayes were also seen as a good chance to go top 5, but none really set the world on fire and it's a big part of the reason this draft now looks average. With no-one tall really dominant.

Now we have all this talk about how good Lukoscious, Max and Ben King look for next year.

Rinse and repeat until we get to the rare year when they do actually live up to the hype and it does actually end up being a really good draft, with both quality tall and small talent up for grabs.

Next year's draft certainly does look like a genuine cracker at this stage though, especially in the top 10. Lukoscious, Rankine, King x 2, Rozee, Walsh, Hill. Yowza! I'd probably take any of them with pick 7 without even blinking on what we've seen so far.

If we finish around the same spot next year it could definitely not be the worst thing in the world. Especially if we add someone from say a pick around 7 then (Rankine, Walsh, Hill or Rozee could suit our needs tremendously), plus someone really good through FA (in particular Sloane or Gaff).

Then we could really be cooking with gas from 2019 onwards.

 

[Longmembrey]

With only a 1st, 4th & 5th round next year I am 100% convinced we have at least 1 if not 2 UFA's lined up for next year.
Interesting given the way next years draft has been talked about.

We must have a player in mind with the late 2nd rounder we picked up for this year.
One to be de-listed yet

Yes, this is pretty much the only ratonale I can come up with.

 

[DarkSaint]

It is well documented, sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative.

The Carlisle deal was good. netted us Gresham as well

Last year was a good deal. Netted us two free players and a top ten 1st rounder three places better.

Todays deal of Logan or Austin or whatever his name is and the draft pick swaps are in that league. Ordinary but not the end of the world.

We aren't in GC territory swapping 2 for Weller or 12 for Cameron by Brisbane, or two firsts for a 29 year old like Adelaide.

The trade period was not good for us this year, but it does not detract from previous years.

He maybe went to them still no proof, but they probably offered up that because they were desperate and he took it.

Did Ameet draft Gresham or was that Tony? Because that has nothing to do with him and could have been a bust.

Yes the others clubs got screwed, but i don't care about them. All i care about is how well we went and it was a terrible trade period as we couldn't land any big fish that we were after and also what we gave up pick wise for Austin.

 

[Sab22]

With Bris & Freo. Both of the players they select would be homesick in few years.

 

[gringo2011]

While I dont like the swap, it doesn't really matter that we currently dont have a second or a third in the 2018 draft.

It will only matter when the 2018 TP ends in a years time. The way trade picks pinged about at the end of Trade period today, we could end up with 4 iun each.

Obviously looking to trade out some excess for picks in 2018.

If we land a FA (can we start the Sloane speculation yet?) will we still be as upset?

Anyway we should land a couple of good kids in the top ten and wouldn't it be great to land a Hunter, LOB, Bonar as a slider?

All in all we failed in our objective. We wanted a quality outside mid, we then wanted a contracted player, we then looked to trade down. We failed in all of these for various reasons.

All in all an ordinary trading period.

lets hope we make the draft really count.

I reckon Trout and Ameet just panicked, justifying it doesn't make it better, it was just a **** up. They have to nail these two firsts now or the club should move Trout on. He's not been a great recruiter and I doubt we play finals unless we have a huge improvement across the board.

 

[bergholt]

On face value:

We got a late 2nd round pick & a player worth about pick 70

We gave up a mid-2nd round & mid-3rd round pick

This doesn't look like a great net result. Assuming Austin is worth about 59 or 64, then we improved one of our picks from 60ish to mid-30s, and in the process crippled ourselves for next year.

 

[Saint Shags]

So by all the melts we gave up 7 and 8 for Austin yeah?
Traded Billings Gresh Ross and Dunstan for pick 303 and a bag of chicken twisties.
And have picked up Troy Menzel, Dean Gore and Zac Clarke as delisted free agents.

 

[Mowman]

I reckon Trout and Ameet just panicked, justifying it doesn't make it better, it was just a **** up. They have to nail these two firsts now or the club should move Trout on. He's not been a great recruiter and I doubt we play finals unless we have a huge improvement across the board.

Will get smashed for this, but i agree do not see us playing finals next year.
Improvement from within is the bare minimum to hold your place in this comp

 

[plugger66]

So by all the melts we gave up 7 and 8 for Austin yeah?
Traded Billings Gresh Ross and Dunstan for pick 303 and a bag of chicken twisties.
And have picked up Troy Menzel, Dean Gore and Zac Clarke as delisted free agents.

Surely you are allowed to be disappointed. I have no doubt the deal with the Hawks last year was to get star. Not sure Austin qualifies


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[DarkSaint]

So by all the melts we gave up 7 and 8 for Austin yeah?
Traded Billings Gresh Ross and Dunstan for pick 303 and a bag of chicken twisties.
And have picked up Troy Menzel, Dean Gore and Zac Clarke as delisted free agents.

No.

7 was done LAST trade period and we pretty much gave up our future second rounder for Austin.

 

[lewdogs]

So we downgraded our 2nd rounder to get back into the 2nd round this year? Not that bad a trade and certainly not terrible as many are making out. Sure we gave away some nothing picks but who cares?

Can't believe Freo got pick 2 for Weller. That is next level.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Anyone got Trout photoshopped onto something that we can all use as an Avi until draft night?

He's just having a few words to Ameet at the moment.

 

[StCicatriz]

I reckon Trout and Ameet just panicked, justifying it doesn't make it better, it was just a **** up. They have to nail these two firsts now or the club should move Trout on. He's not been a great recruiter and I doubt we play finals unless we have a huge improvement across the board.

i had my doubts on trout for a long time, i questioned his ability to find genuine match winning talent, but i think he's done it with billings/gresham. plus the trading has been the best in the league, head and shoulders above anything else

but i dont think you can put this down to a **** up on his behalf. he did everything he can to move it in the right direction. he pulled off that epic trade with hawthorn that gave us a really good hand to hit the free agency/OOC pool with. ameet worked the TPP nicely

the reality is no player and i do mean no player of any significant market value is going to come to a club that finished 11th and went backwards on ladder position

its just not going to happen. the players with significant market value, so the absolutely elite, are only going to go to sides that play finals

that is why clubs like essendon and port adelaide were suddenly destination clubs and why a club like the pies who have always been active during this period were basically leppers

so he was behind the 8 ball as soon as that happened

the position he has us in, is a good one though. i like bringing forward the talent 12 months to develop them quicker. we can always regain that draft presence in 2018

as for trout, there was talk we were into sanderson, first as an assistant coach but then would hand over from trout when he moves on, longer term. which tells me he wont always be there. in a couple of years time, we probably have a new list manager

but thats not to say trout hasnt done good work. i think the bigger issue is the football dept, in terms of player development and coaching

 

[bergholt]

With only a 1st, 4th & 5th round next year I am 100% convinced we have at least 1 if not 2 UFA's lined up for next year.
Interesting given the way next years draft has been talked about.

We must have a player in mind with the late 2nd rounder we picked up for this year.
One to be de-listed yet

We have 4 picks in the money at the moment, 7 + 8 + 34 + 45. Surely we wouldn't have traded for 34 if we weren't going to use 45? So that means we have two delistings to do, because with Austin there are 38 on the current 2018 list.

Presumably Holmes goes and Pierce, Minch or Wright drop to the rookie list. Marshall not promoted.

 

[Barrels]

Just in case anyone’s wondering, the post-Trade Week, pre-Draft U23s:

FB: Rice - Austin - White
HB: Long - Goddard - McKenzie
RK: Pierce - Steele - Acres
CR: Freeman - Dunstan - Sinclair
HF: Billings - McCartin - Gresham
FF: Lonie - Marshall - Battle
IC: Phillips Joyce O’Kearney

 

[gringo2011]

I would say this pick swap was agreed to in principle as part of the Austin swap, but we needed to see whether we'd be able to get a trade done with Richmond or Gold Coast first, to see exactly which picks we'd have to give to Port.

Austin seemed very cheap initially. Now it looks like we paid a more fair price for him. No biggie.

At least it means he probably pretty decent and not just there for back-up only long term.

He'll want to turn out to be better than Jake Lever to pay that for a back up defender who wasn't able to take Trengove and Hombsch out of the best 22. I reckon they were desperate to get a trade done so sold the farm as you say as part of the deal. Never thought he seemed very cheap, I thought that was about his value.

 

[Mowman]

So by all the melts we gave up 7 and 8 for Austin yeah?
Traded Billings Gresh Ross and Dunstan for pick 303 and a bag of chicken twisties.
And have picked up Troy Menzel, Dean Gore and Zac Clarke as delisted free agents.

Surely people can give their opinions even if its not a positive towards the club
Clubs not going to get everything right and thats fine as well

 

[Sab22]

Logan Austin already got so much hate and discouragement for his entire life in less than 5 hours on the Saints FB page.

Give the kid a chance.

 

[BigSassy]

combine it with this graphic:
View attachment 430147

players ages next year are in the brackets, look at the core group of strong performing players. do we really think we can wait another 12 months before we get access to more talent, with players like steven 28, carlisle 27, bruce 26, ross 25 etc.

it makes sense to be trying to get our hands on the talent now. mids are the quickest to develop and richmond had a number of very green players performing in that flag side, as did the doggies.

if we need to have a presence in the 2nd round next year, then we will find a way to get back into. worst case you just trade your 2019 2nd out for a 2018 2nd, which there will always be clubs willing to do that due to the academy/father son system

Pretty much this. We traded out of the 1st round last year for this year, either to trade in a star, or plan b hit the draft with 2 top 10 picks.

Seeing as it's come to that, I think the swap of seconds to use one in this draft shows we're not interested in delaying another year. We're loading up now to get the development into a few really promising lads pronto.

'Road to 2018' & all that. Club knows we gotta get moving now. And I'm ok with that.

Hope we nail them and maybe then we pick up the gargantuan-weller-sized fish we need with our 1st next year. Hope by that point we're primed n ready.

 

[AaronSCHQ]

So looking ahead to the draft now. I assume that we plan on using 45, if we were happy to trade a future 2nd for 34 when we already had 45 sitting there.

Use 7, 8, 34 & 45 in the draft - one would assume Holmes is delisted and someone else. If we were desperate to upgrade Marshall with pick 100 then we would need to delist 2 contracted players.

Will be seriously p***** off if we upgrade Marshall at 45 or pass, for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[StCicatriz]

Surely people can give their opinions even if its not a positive towards the club
Clubs not going to get everything right and thats fine as well

spot on. criticise away. to think our club is perfect just isnt right. 6 years out of finals, tells you it isnt