Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[Wickzki]

he showed quite a bit in his last few matches, make a call and delist him that's fine if he has no future but don't replace him with someone who's worse. Isn't that the crux of good list management? Some of the cheap pickups have been fool's gold.

As much as Boekhorst wasn't the least talented player on our list he;

• Wasn't a good trainer
• Didn't fulfill his role within the team as he was told to play it
• Went against instruction far too often
• Wasn't mature enough and was becoming a negative influence on the VFL youngsters not ready for AFL

There were enough reasons to delist Boekhorst.

Not one other AFL club picked him up when he gave them multiple opportunities to do so.

Sadly, he broke his knee in the preseason at East Fremantle so the likelihood of him getting back to AFL level is next to nil.

Not to pick on a guy when he's down but... that haircut that he rocked up to East Fremantle with screams absolute w***er.

 

[Prem17]

[QUOTE="HereComesJuddy, post: 56682842, member: 5968elite, Stop reading and listening to media. They all have an agenda. Listen to the club and embrace the direction and the end goal.

2. Why is trading pick 1 the only way out? Its not[/QUOTE]
Trading pick 1 is not the only way out. Bringing in elite, established mids to help this young group develop is.

 

[Wickzki]

It really broke my heart this morning to see Carlton labeled worse than Fitzroy.
The hyenas in the media are on the loose and they are scavenging from the carcass of the once mighty Carlton Football Club.
Money talks.

Oh, **** me.

This year more than any other has taught me the following:

First, the media make money on hyping the here and now to all buggery.

Secondly, they don't look five minutes into the future because that's not where the money is made.

What do we also already know about the media?

They are proud that bad news about Carlton makes them $$$.

Journalists are on record as having established this as an out and out fact. No matter how long we've been shit, a shit Carlton is good for the press.

Add those things together and they've hit one of their jackpots.

Did you read any of what was within the content?

Here's one takeaway to blow that bullshit apart. I don't have the exact quote in front of me but to paraphrase "There is little to no chance of Carlton improving in 2019."

Anybody knowledgeable about football knows that's blatantly untrue

• We get injured players back on the park to enable us to implement Plan A including our All-Australian from last year (Sam Docherty), Tom Williamson, etc.
• We will have a high end draft pick coming into the club or a readymade star or a combination
• Beyond pick one we have other draft picks and free agency to improve the list
• There is some young talent on the list who will develop even more over the summer

If Carlton is not significantly improved next year then something (or multiple things) have gone catastrophically wrong.

 

[Prem17]

Why is it the only way? North haven't landed anyone and they've improved dramatically. The have improved off the back of senior players having career best seasons and their second and third tier players stepping up through experience and continuity.

Carlton is bereft of quality leaders and solid experienced players, we need to be clever with some 25-30 year old cheap pickups while our teenagers develop. There is no way top end talent are going to come to Carlton the way we are playing at the moment. We've chosen this path of a full rebuild and need to stick to it, no shortcuts.

Fair points but you didn't factor in that we don't have many senior players that can make that kind of difference.
A fit Murphy, Docherty and Kruezer are really the only ones we can add to that list next year.

 

[Prem17]

We ha

Oh, **** me.

This year more than any other has taught me the following:

First, the media make money on hyping the here and now to all buggery.

Secondly, they don't look five minutes into the future because that's not where the money is made.

What do we also already know about the media?

They are proud that bad news about Carlton makes them $$$.

Journalists are on record as having established this as an out and out fact. No matter how long we've been shit, a shit Carlton is good for the press.

Add those things together and they've hit one of their jackpots.

Did you read any of what was within the content?

Here's one takeaway to blow that bullshit apart. I don't have the exact quote in front of me but to paraphrase "There is little to no chance of Carlton improving in 2019."

Anybody knowledgeable about football knows that's blatantly untrue

• We get injured players back on the park to enable us to implement Plan A including our All-Australian from last year (Sam Docherty), Tom Williamson, etc.
• We will have a high end draft pick coming into the club or a readymade star or a combination
• Beyond pick one we have other draft picks and free agency to improve the list
• There is some young talent on the list who will develop even more over the summer

If Carlton is not significantly improved next year then something (or multiple things) have gone catastrophically wrong.

We have to be successful in our attempts to attract people first.
We were in the mix for Kelly, but as was the case for North, we weren't successful.
Hopefully we can pick up Wallis and/or others in the free agency period to make the club a more attractive option during trade week.
It's a matter of being able to do the marketing hard sell to make guys want to be one of the reasons behind the rejuvenation of the club.

 

[DIG]

We ha


We have to be successful in our attempts to attract people first.
We were in the mix for Kelly, but as was the case for North, we weren't successful.
Hopefully we can pick up Wallis and/or others in the free agency period to make the club a more attractive option during trade week.
It's a matter of being able to do the marketing hard sell to make guys want to be one of the reasons behind the rejuvenation of the club.

We successfully attracted Lang and Kennedy. But yeah the big fish will remain harder, especially those 26+ hoping to see a flag in their career.

I wouldn't mind us getting a veteran - Hodge/Lewis Style who might want to mentor in their final years, but only for nix.

 

[BLue_Bloys]

Fair points but you didn't factor in that we don't have many senior players that can make that kind of difference.
A fit Murphy, Docherty and Kruezer are really the only ones we can add to that list next year.

I definitely think we need to bring in some experienced players just can't see how we would be able to land a top player right now and don't think throwing big $$ and picks is the right answer, not at this stage of our list rebuild. We need to be looking at:

• Who the best state league mids are and bring in one in cheaply
• Shrewd drafting of fringe players that are starved of opportunity or delisted free agency. Why can't we bring in someone like Sam Mitchell, Hodge or Daniel Cross equivalent?

I'd be looking at Wallis, Jarryd Lyons, Clay Smith, Tory Dickson, Mundy, Hugh Greenwood, Will Langford, Angus Brayshaw or Dom Tyson. Bring in one or two of these type for the right price and see how much better our young players develop.

 

[PrinceCharles]

he showed quite a bit in his last few matches, make a call and delist him that's fine if he has no future but don't replace him with someone who's worse. Isn't that the crux of good list management? Some of the cheap pickups have been fool's gold.

Loving watching Boeky this year at his second AFL club.

 

[Prem17]

I definitely think we need to bring in some experienced players just can't see how we would be able to land a top player right now and don't think throwing big $$ and picks is the right answer, not at this stage of our list rebuild. We need to be looking at:

• Who the best state league mids are and bring in one in cheaply
• Shrewd drafting of fringe players that are starved of opportunity or delisted free agency. Why can't we bring in someone like Sam Mitchell, Hodge or Daniel Cross equivalent?

I'd be looking at Wallis, Jarryd Lyons, Clay Smith, Tory Dickson, Mundy, Hugh Greenwood, Will Langford, Angus Brayshaw or Dom Tyson. Bring in one or two of these type for the right price and see how much better our young players develop.

Lovell and Tyson would be good.
Doubt Lyons would be interested after the dealings with AFC/CFC

 

[StandByyourMan]

Trade picks pay overs. No time for tight arsery.

 

[Wickzki]

We have to be successful in our attempts to attract people first.
We were in the mix for Kelly, but as was the case for North, we weren't successful.
Hopefully we can pick up Wallis and/or others in the free agency period to make the club a more attractive option during trade week.
It's a matter of being able to do the marketing hard sell to make guys want to be one of the reasons behind the rejuvenation of the club.

We've been an active player in the trade market for the past three years.

If I was in Josh Kelly's shoes I'd have done the same thing as he did, re-sign for the short term and get out later. Thinking;

A. I believe that there's a chance at premiership success at GWS (injuries and a shit coach have killed them)

B. By the time I've chased my success with the young guns I developed with Carlton, North, or whichever Melbourne club I want to play for down the track will be closer to contending and I can come in and hopefully push them over the top.

The sacrifice of money was a lot more at North than it was at Carlton.

We will be a lot better next year regardless of whether we sign free agents or otherwise.

Honestly, I'm not going to be too disappointed if we don't overpay someone this transfer window. Given the season we've had any younger veteran (26-28) worth their salt would likely come to the club as an overpay. I believe we'll lure a few potential younger guns like Will Brodie without paying overs and they'll help improve the club as well as the return to health of Docherty, Williamson, Macreadie, etc.

I'd love to see us get in a Sam Mitchell-type veteran. Someone whose enjoyed the highest level of success, who wants to get into coaching when their career is over, and who will help transform the culture at the club. Maybe a Puopolo, Whitecross or Stratton would be available from Hawthorn.

 

[TheKing101]

Loving watching Boeky this year at his second AFL club.

Don’t hate on Boeky. Would take him in a heartbeat over half our list.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Don’t hate on Boeky. Would take him in a heartbeat over half our list.

Clearly 17 other clubs thought the same...

 

[Broadside]

Clearly 17 other clubs thought the same...

the other 17 clubs aren't rock bottom with a percentage of 62.

 

[Aphrodite]

the other 17 clubs aren't rock bottom with a percentage of 62.

GC is on 62.

 

[PrinceCharles]

the other 17 clubs aren't rock bottom with a percentage of 62.

So you aspire to move up to...where exactly?

 

[TheKing101]

Clearly 17 other clubs thought the same...

Thought the same as what? That he is better than half our list? That doesn’t even make sense. Are you one of those people that thinks the club makes all the right decisions in the offseason?

 

[TheKing101]

Honestly I thought this is the year we should bring in elite talent but we still have holes over our whole list. Need to hit the draft hard again. Otherwise we just waste this gun free agents primes.

 

[PrinceCharles]

Thought the same as what? That he is better than half our list? That doesn’t even make sense. Are you one of those people that thinks the club makes all the right decisions in the offseason?

Nope, but I'm not concerned about Blaine #$$##$ Boekhorst. He was soft, lazy and entitled.

 

[TheKing101]

Nope, but I'm not concerned about Blaine #$$##$ Boekhorst. He was soft, lazy and entitled.

But he wasn’t in his last few games. I know he would fool us into believing that so he could get another contract but he was more deserving than a lot of other players. Was one of our best players in his last three games. Seems foolish to get rid of him after finally showing signs

 

[PrinceCharles]

But he wasn’t in his last few games. I know he would fool us into believing that so he could get another contract but he was more deserving than a lot of other players. Was one of our best players in his last three games. Seems foolish to get rid of him after finally showing signs

Not if he gets pissed the night before his second chance.

 

[Aphrodite]

Seriously!

 

[TheKing101]

Not if he gets pissed the night before his second chance.

I’ll take anyone who can play football at this stage mate

 

[carlton2dabone]

As much as Boekhorst wasn't the least talented player on our list he;

• Wasn't a good trainer
• Didn't fulfill his role within the team as he was told to play it
• Went against instruction far too often
• Wasn't mature enough and was becoming a negative influence on the VFL youngsters not ready for AFL

There were enough reasons to delist Boekhorst.

Not one other AFL club picked him up when he gave them multiple opportunities to do so.

Sadly, he broke his knee in the preseason at East Fremantle so the likelihood of him getting back to AFL level is next to nil.

Not to pick on a guy when he's down but... that haircut that he rocked up to East Fremantle with screams absolute w***er.

I’m so sick and tired of hearing how attitude should dictate whether a player gets games or even a spot on the list.

I’m not just talking about boek specifically, but the whole concept of not working hard enough in training or having a bad attitude etc.

Conversely, I don’t give a shit how good a players attitude is and how well they train or around the club, if the player isn’t good enough to deliver in game day then no matter how hard he works he shouldn’t get a game, period.

To me It’s all about results on game day, not the crap that happens behind the scenes.
If a player consistently delivers on game day then he plays regardless of attitude, if he doesn’t then he doesn’t play regardless of how well his attitude is behind the scenes

 

[BoltonsBlues]

Don’t hate on Boeky. Would take him in a heartbeat over half our list.

You want him back going through a rehab with a broken leg..... mind bongling