Mega Thread 2018 Trade Period Discussion part 2! (cont. in Part 3 - link in OP)

[jo172]

Compare that to SOS, where ffs even you or I could land a talented kid if you have high draft picks.

Its like shooting fish in a barrel.

People tend to underrate how much development and coming into the right system makes a difference. You can't polish a turd, but you can turn coal into diamonds.

Makes me sad to think about the quality talent that's going to Carlton, GC and Port this year.

 

[Red mist]

Heard from an unreliable sauce.
ROB to get chunks of game time next yr.

 

[GROTTO]

People tend to underrate how much development and coming into the right system makes a difference. You can't polish a turd, but you can turn coal into diamonds.

Makes me sad to think about the quality talent that's going to Carlton, GC and Port this year.

I feel sad for some of the players at Carlton that probably would have been superstars at our Clubs.

Watts is a spud, but he was no spud at 18 years of age. I think he would have been a solid average player at the very least if Melbourne didnt get to him. They actually skipped over NicNat for him. Mind you the go home factor may have been a variable as well.

 

[Crow till I die]

Heard from an unreliable sauce.
ROB to get chunks of game time next yr.

Haha...like it.

I heard from an equally unreliable source that B Crouch is being traded to Richmond this year

 

[Mike Smyth]

Can some of you not renew your memberships we got people on the waiting list.

I’m fully aware we haven’t got things 100% right but **** me the negativity is at unbelievable levels.

Just chill out and let 2019 unfold - who knows it might surprise you.

Seriously who the **** do you think you are to preach to people about how they should be posting.
chill out in the corner. Its supporters like you who have turned this club into the mediocre basket case it has become. Accountability is underrated.

 

[jo172]

Seriously who the **** do you think you are to preach to people about how they should be posting.

chill out in the corner. Its supporters like you who have turned this club into the mediocre basket case it has become. Accountability is underrated.

 

[Golumless]

So let’s go into 2019 with a poor ruck set up, that’s a better strategy.

It's a much better strategy then ridiculously overpaying for an 8 game player. There is no more crippling outcome in this game then a negative value contract, and that would be incredibly likely to have occurred in this case.

 

[Crowked]

Heard from an unreliable sauce.
ROB to get chunks of game time next yr.

Unreliable! I like it.

 

[Deaneus!]

Did we bring in a big name recruit? no

Did we fill in any list holes? Ruck - nope, Small forward - maybe

Did we trade up to get SA-level draft picks? not yet

Do we at least have a good bunch of picks? yes

So we have 8, 13, 16, 21 (no one cares about 73 and 83, they're probably for rookie upgrades)

There's still 5 weeks of pick-swapping to happen

Also, everyone seems to be thinking, how do we turn these four picks into 2 & 3?

That will be difficult and may not happen. But, there are other clubs who will want our picks.



So GC, GWS, us and Port have 12 of the 20 first round picks this year... and three is the most we've ever had in the first round.

I submit to you all, that I think the reason Carlton is openly talking of trading the #1 pick, is because it is still trying to rejuvenate its list... and it can't do that if their second pick is 69. Geelong don't look too flash either; someone's gone through their list and drafting history recently in this thread and it's not pretty. They need some high picks. The Hawks don't start until #53, then they have 90. Collingwood don't start before 41, Norf before 42.

But deaneus, you laugh, clubs can't trade players anymore. What could the Hawks et al offer us that will help us now?

Future draft picks, of course. Future picks that can be currency *this* year. For example, the Hawks offer us their first next year, for our #21. And then that can become part of a trade to Carlton for 1, or to GC for 2 or 3. I *suspect* we'll (1) talk to Carlton or GC or the Saints about what they want, (2) talk to the clubs behind us in the draft about splitting our picks with future picks, (3) deliver these to Carlton or GC or the Saints. These clubs aren't dumb, they know Luko and Rankine and Rozee could be flight risks, especially if they go to basketcase clubs... if they're smart they'll actively pursue risk mitigation strategies that may involve giving us the opportunity to select Luko / Rankine / Rozee and selecting more appropriate players for their lists (and, remembering the article RE drafting in the NFL that's also been posted, would Carlton be better off with #1 or #8, #13

And finally... check it out, we have pick 119

 

[Murray2503]

The 3rd option is thinking we still have a core of players that took us to a grand final before a year of injuries. Get those guys back on the park along with players who developed greatly last year like Gallucci and Milera. Fill in our small forward weakness and take our strongest ever arsenal to the draft in the hands of the best recruiter in the comp.

Crazy that people on here think they know better than some of the most respected guys in their industry.

Your 3rd option is pretty much my option 1. Mine was suggesting trading out a player or two in certain positions that are superfluous to our needs but have currency. I was suggesting using the draft to help us get over the line but to get ourselves into the top 6 to get the guns to achieve that end.

 

[El Doederino]

Gov.

Shit, I’d forgotten about him already.

 

[Golumless]

Gov.

And he's even more of a lock if we stick Fogarty in Govs spot.

Would take Murphys/Gallucci spot with Gallucci moving more midfield bound.

Barring an atrocious preseason/injury, it's nearly impossible to argue that McAdam won't get at least 15-20 games.

 

[Golumless]

Astonishing to go 10 years without a miss really

(granted the last couple of years aren't certainties).

Aren't certainties but all of them are now very safe bets.

Fogarty is our no.1 prospect (and no doubt is the person we're planning to build the next gen around), Gallucci has shown a lot, Doedee killed it this season in a niche role and Milera is very much on a elite trajectory now.

 

[Crow Envy]

It's a much better strategy then ridiculously overpaying for an 8 game player. There is no more crippling outcome in this game then a negative value contract, and that would be incredibly likely to have occurred in this case.

No more crippling outcome? Do you have survey results to confirm this?

Incredibly likely, let’s see.

What we do know is we go in with Jacobs one year older when he had already lost it last year. We also know when he was badly beaten, we lost.

But, it doesn’t matter, there is nothing more crippling than a negative value contract.

 

[Ozzie]

How much will pick 3 cost on draft night?

8+13?
8+21+Future 1st? (getting back future minor pick to make it legal)

Zero because it won't happen. That would be the correct decision to make.

Unbelievable

We couldnt make cap space for Pavlich say no more. It means the club lied for years surprise surprise

Hawthron under Clarkson would have made cap space

Neale wants to return home and it doesnt make any headlines your f******g kidding.

Simply ignoring a basic fact that generally the best players gone to W.A. haven't returned to S.A. is Carlton like delusional
For a club that has a steady list of graders leaving would/should jump at one returning

Gaff and McGovern had huge dollars thrown at them and didn't leave. We cant say the same

For a start we chose to take Wayne Carey over MP. That's the reason there wasn't any money. I still have nightmares with Carey hitting that blasted point post. I was there that night and saw it happen live. That year we were playing premiership football until he got hurt.
Sloane and Lynch have stayed along with Talia. Blows your remarks abouts Gaff and McGovern to pieces.
From all accounts we tried to get both Neale and Hurn back only to be rebuffed.
A Graders left for big money from the two expansion clubs. Our drafts in those years were ruined. Maximum return from Cameron, Lever and Gov. yet still you bitch.
You suffer from selective memory to bolster your deluded POV.

 

[jo172]

For a start we chose to take Wayne Carey over MP. That's the reason there wasn't any money. I still have nightmares with Carey hitting that blasted point post. I was there that night and saw it happen live. That year we were playing premiership football until he got hurt..

15 goals in 5 games until that blasted point post. Probably would have been good for 60 for the season.

 

[Vader]

Unbelievable

We couldnt make cap space for Pavlich say no more. It means the club lied for years surprise surprise

Hawthron under Clarkson would have made cap space

Neale wants to return home and it doesnt make any headlines your f******g kidding.

Simply ignoring a basic fact that generally the best players gone to W.A. haven't returned to S.A. is Carlton like delusional
For a club that has a steady list of graders leaving would/should jump at one returning

Gaff and McGovern had huge dollars thrown at them and didn't leave. We cant say the same

My understanding is that it had nothing to do with salary cap pressures. We had the choice between Carey & Pavlich, and Ayres wanted to go with Carey. We didn't have the draft resources (i.e. players & picks) to get both, so the Senior Coach got his way.

 

[kirky]

Seriously who the **** do you think you are to preach to people about how they should be posting.
chill out in the corner. Its supporters like you who have turned this club into the mediocre basket case it has become. Accountability is underrated.

No, I can be ruthless as anyone however the over the top negativity is off the Richter scale.

Perhaps a bit more balance is required.

 

[Ozzie]

I feel sad for some of the players at Carlton that probably would have been superstars at our Clubs.

Watts is a spud, but he was no spud at 18 years of age. I think he would have been a solid average player at the very least if Melbourne didnt get to him. They actually skipped over NicNat for him. Mind you the go home factor may have been a variable as well.

Very much so. That was the reason the Dees took him at #1.

 

[Vader]

The continually losing A Graders thing is a bit of a furphy to be honest. Dangerfield, Tippett and Bock were A Graders when they left.

Blokes like Davis, Gunston, Lever, McGovern and Cameron were all young, potential A Graders when they left.

When blokes cement themselves as A Graders here (Sloane, Talia, Laird, M Crouch, Smith, Lynch) they rarely seem to leave.

I suspect the main issue is we pay on performance rather than potential.

Bock went to Gold Coast with their initial intake, at a time when they only had a few senior players and a whole bunch of pimply faced draftees. GC threw so much money at him that Adelaide would have been stupid to match it. That said, they didn't even have the opportunity - he had already signed with GC before they even knew GC were interested. Davis was exactly the same, albeit 12 months later.

Neither DangerMouse nor Pond Scum left for money. They got bucket loads at their new clubs, but it was never their primary reason for departure.

 

[Vader]

Compare that to SOS, where ffs even you or I could land a talented kid if you have high draft picks.

Its like shooting fish in a barrel.

How much of Carlton's problems are due to poor talent identification, and how much is due to shithouse player development?

 

[Ozzie]

15 goals in 5 games until that blasted point post. Probably would have been good for 60 for the season.

Yep more importantly he was teaching the other forwards where to position themselves. Scott Welsh credits him for any success he enjoyed.
Like I said earlier it was champagne football.

 

[jackster83]

How much of Carlton's problems are due to poor talent identification, and how much is due to shithouse player development?

Bolton is rivaling Neeld for the worst coach in modern history. Absolute moron.

 

[chazwazza]

Well the one thing I’ve learnt from this trade period apart from proof of players turning into absolute Prima Donna’s is that there’s a hell of a lot of sooks, whiners, shadow jumpers and perennial complainers on this forum and in the AFL society in general.
Dead set. Any other year and Adelaide would kill for the picks we’ve got this year but no, it’s filled with sour doom and gloom.
Give some of you people $10k and you’d complain it isn’t $20k.
Redevelop Adelaide Oval and you complain that it doesn’t hold 60k.
Allow Adelaide to field a Reserves team and you complain that it’s unfair.
F*** me!!! Stop following sport if you think it’ll always be fair and in your favour.

 

[Deaneus!]

How much of Carlton's problems are due to poor talent identification, and how much is due to shithouse player development?

why-not-both-spanish-girl.jpeg

although, i'd also add "all-round club culture" as separate to your two reasons