Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Arr0w]

There still remains a remote possibility that Carlton and Gold Coast come up with a face saving pick swap and GC retract their offer to Martin and delist him before Oct 31.

That way he can join us directly as a DFA.

Unless the club was supremely confident that Jack was a financial certainty to get through to us in the PSD for nothing, they may opt to come up with an agreement.

Now that would be considered tampering

Better off doing absolutely nothing, apart from picking him up in the PSD

 

[Keyza]

That was completely separate, and Brisbane won out big time.

And the AFL rewards Gold Coast.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Wonder if we'll take a look at Ben Keays - delisted by Brisbane. From memory he'd shown a bit in his time up there, not a "gun" by any means, but a solid young player.

Goal kicking mid, kicked 43 goals from 16 games in the NEAFL (incl. five bags of 4, one of 6), averaging 20 touches, 5 marks and 3 tackles along the way.

Reckon there's something to work with there.

 

[tipstar]

GET BEN SOKOL!!!!!

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

A dozen? He was averaging over 17 as a second year player over the first half of the year, coming off an interrupted preseason.

He fell away dramatically in the second half of the season, partly due to fatigue (which can be attributed to his preseason issues and the fact he was only 19), and partly due to spending virtually no time in the midfield at all.

He's definitely best 22 for mine. In fact I would not be at all surprised to see him start R1 vs Richmond in the centre square.

I’m a Dow fan but averaging 17 touches playing near full time mid like he was makes him about the worst in the league. His not good enough to play midfield yet and not good enough in other positions, so not best 22 for me.
Of course this could change very quickly when we are talking about players going into their third season.

 

[thylacine60]

Fisher absolutely I don't think Dow is necessarily best 22, let alone clearly.

A dozen sketchy possessions and little defensive running, interspersed with some admittedly great highlights, is not best 22.

then why was he selected? it's a simple thing to say we had no-one better but that just confirms he is best 22 - on saying that he did have a crap year...….

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Wouldn't mind us picking up Jacob Townsend, could be handy.

 

[Kramer1]

then why was he selected? it's a simple thing to say we had no-one better but that just confirms he is best 22 - on saying that he did have a crap year...….

He wasn't at times...even with a lengthy injury list, which to me suggests he isn't clearly best 22.

We'll add another one, maybe two this year in the post season that get their names called before him, and fingers crossed have a better run with injury making competition even tighter again.

Hope as much as anyone he puts the question beyond doubt...but the disposal is more than just 'another pre season and he'll be right' thing.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

He wasn't at times...even with a lengthy injury list, which to me suggests he isn't clearly best 22.

We'll add another one, maybe two this year in the post season that get their names called before him, and fingers crossed have a better run with injury making competition even tighter again.

Hope as much as anyone he puts the question beyond doubt...but the disposal is more than just 'another pre season and he'll be right' thing.

He is probably not best 22 on the form of the past season, but the quicker we get 50 - 100 games into the likes of him and LOB the better.
Fingers crossed he has a big pre season and starts next season in tip top shape.

He isn't the first, nor the last player to experience, um 2nd year Blues.

 

[Dadda Dave]

So we're still 4-5 players short of a premiership list.

I can live with that for now. It goes to show just how important snagging Martin will be in PSD and using our draft picks are. However, 25-26 players is much better than the half a dozen or so who would have been best 22 for good clubs not so long ago.

Dow and Fisher not best 22 BrisbaneCFC? Yikes. Disagree vehemently. Dow had a case of second year blues which isn't unheard of. He'll easily be a top 10 player on our list soon enough. Fisher had a poor year compared to the expectations that he would have set for himself. However, I believe Teaguey will find a consistent role for him that maximizes his strengths (which are developing into elite status) while minimizing his weaknesses (which will always be present due to his size unless he Caleb Daniels' it).

Fish came back after a serious leg injury too which might of dented his confidence a bit..

 

[murphster]

I'll buy up anyone's shares in Fisher and Dow. I think sooner or later they'll pay big dividends and everyone will be clambering aboard.

After a summer of working with Diesel young Paddy will be primed to do some paddy wacking in 2020.

 

[Stamos]

It seems we are currently having the same list management discussion across 3 threads, perhaps we should try to bring it all here.

I think something we should be considering when discussing our lack of success with late picks and rookies, is that with such a massive list turnover, and the make-up of our list with so many young, gun players, is that it makes it more difficult for those more speculative picks to develop. This is not to excuse our development program (which has jus been bolstered), or say the disastrous 2017 - O’Shea, Shaw, Mullett (and now Schumacher and Garlett). But with a properly structured list, surely it is easier to develop (and even to target), these project players.

Since SOS picked Weitering with his very first pick at Carlton, we have added 10 more players picked in the first round across those 4 drafts. That I. Itself is going to make it harder for those later picked players to develop, as opposed to other clubs.

But I’m sure we can all agree that we’d like more success with our later picks and rookies.

 

[mjonc43]

Wouldn't mind us picking up Jacob Townsend, could be handy.

VFL player.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[murphster]

Not bothered by Dow or Fisher yet but they have to take steps forward next season.

Dow has a lot to work on but I think he will be a good player when he gets some size about him and improves his running. Needs to develop his physicality and intensity. Pressure acts and kicking are a concern but in terms of strengths, weaknesses, development progression, athletic attributes there are similarities to Dangerfield here who has become a pretty good player. In saying that I am sure he's not the only player to be compared to someone like Dangerfield and hasn't gone on with it. No doubt Dangerfield worked hard to build his size, strength and athleticism and is a hard competitor. He still can't kick but he gets away with it by kicking long well.

Fisher needs to develop a hard edge and physical side to his game. He's small and fair enough but he keeps out of the way a bit much for mine and taking the next step means becoming a player who just goes at it consistently all day and shirks very little. Not an unusual issue for a young player to have but every grand final I watch I look at just how hard every player in the winning team goes at the contest and it just reminds me what your 22 must have if it's to win one of those. Got to have that intensity and physicality and almost reckless attack on the contest.

These guys will get their chance in 2020 to impress and with a healthy list they are going to have to be good to get a game. I have Fisher as fringe and Dow as just outside of best 22 but good performances can change all of that just as competition from other fringe and outside 22 players can.

It comes down to them in the end and I get the feeling we're going to build a list of talented players and come selection night we are going to pick the strongest competitors for our 22.

I'm looking forward to the competition for spots this year and I hope that our young players are at it now trying to catch up and turn themselves into not just good players at Carlton but good AFL players in general.

Teague and Co's biggest challenge will be turning these players into hard edged competitors who have a bit of mongrel and aren't afraid to take and dish out the hard stuff. You mix that with skill and athleticism and you have a really really good team.

The fact that a lot of our young players are there or there abouts in terms of best 22 is a great thing heading into a very important pre season for the players and the club, this fact is going to see them push each other every single training session and see them put in the extras to try and get the edge over each other. (Which from what Murph said there is already a huge group doing extras at every opportunity.)

I expect to see others beside Jack pushing themselves to keep up with Ed and Charlie in the running and we saw the dividends that produced in Jacks improvement this year, you can bet your arse the other young boys did as well and will want the same jump in performance to try and keep up and even surpass the others around them.

I expect a number of our young players to have break out years next year based on the whispers coming out of Princes Park, with Dow, Fisher, O’Brien, Walsh, Samo, Gibbo, Kennedy, Cunners, Polson, Setterfield and one that I think will really have a break out year in Stocker, all primed and ready to step up to the next level at the same time the competition for senior spots is only going to get more intense and more brutal in terms of the hard work they will have to put in to maintain and improve there standing in the pecking order.

All of this is just manna from heaven for us long beleaguered Blues supporters as this can only lead to one thing in the end, the one thing we have waited for since 95, another tilt at the big one and the bringing in of number 17. Go Blues

 

[gbatman]

The fact that a lot of our young players are there or there abouts in terms of best 22 is a great thing heading into a very important pre season for the players and the club, this fact is going to see them push each other every single training session and see them put in the extras to try and get the edge over each other. (Which from what Murph said there is already a huge group doing extras at every opportunity.)

I expect to see others beside Jack pushing themselves to keep up with Ed and Charlie in the running and we saw the dividends that produced in Jacks improvement this year, you can bet your arse the other young boys did as well and will want the same jump in performance to try and keep up and even surpass the others around them.

I expect a number of our young players to have break out years next year based on the whispers coming out of Princes Park, with Dow, Fisher, O’Brien, Walsh, Samo, Gibbo, Kennedy, Cunners, Polson, Setterfield and one that I think will really have a break out year in Stocker, all primed and ready to step up to the next level at the same time the competition for senior spots is only going to get more intense and more brutal in terms of the hard work they will have to put in to maintain and improve there standing in the pecking order.

All of this is just manna from heaven for us long beleaguered Blues supporters as this can only lead to one thing in the end, the one thing we have waited for since 95, another tilt at the big one and the bringing in of number 17. Go Blues

How great is it to hear these things and very much on the money here. Just goes to show how terrible our culture has been over the years. All this blaming people like Ratten, Malthouse, Hughes, Rogers. Sure they might have not done that well but they were always going to fail with our culture. Justifies further the big clean out we have had of lazy yet talented players.

We've created a culture of hard working and very serious footballers and that's really exciting. A lot of credit to our recruiting team bringing in players who we believed would create this culture and a lot of credit must go to guys like Brendan Bolton, David Teague and Andrew Russell for driving this.

I think 2020 is going to be a great season in terms of improvements and us taking strides forward I get the feeling.

 

[THE_GUN]

How great is it to hear these things and very much on the money here. Just goes to show how terrible our culture has been over the years. All this blaming people like Ratten, Malthouse, Hughes, Rogers. Sure they might have not done that well but they were always going to fail with our culture. Justifies further the big clean out we have had of lazy yet talented players.

We've created a culture of hard working and very serious footballers and that's really exciting. A lot of credit to our recruiting team bringing in players who we believed would create this culture and a lot of credit must go to guys like Brendan Bolton, David Teague and Andrew Russell for driving this.

I think 2020 is going to be a great season in terms of improvements and us taking strides forward I get the feeling.

What would be considered a pass mark for 2020 and what would be a fail

 

[gbatman]

What would be considered a pass mark for 2020 and what would be a fail

Pass mark is around mid table. So around the 12-6th mark.

If there's significant injuries and it's less then so be it. Probably got a good 25 or so players but haven't quite got the depth yet of the better sides so need to factor in everything but I think that a 9-13 win season is a pass mark baring anything unusual.

Any better would be exceeding expected results and that would be great but that is what I am expecting.

 

[THE_GUN]

Pass mark is around mid table. So around the 12-6th mark.

If there's significant injuries and it's less then so be it. Probably got a good 25 or so players but haven't quite got the depth yet of the better sides so need to factor in everything but I think that a 9-13 win season is a pass mark baring anything unusual.

Any better would be exceeding expected results and that would be great but that is what I am expecting.

11 wins 100% percentage which is roughly where teams like Crows/Hawks were in 2019 ?
think thats about par with a huge expectation on making finals in 2021 a must

 

[gbatman]

11 wins 100% percentage which is roughly where teams like Crows/Hawks were in 2019 ?
think thats about par with a huge expectation on making finals in 2021 a must

Yeah I think it's about right, plenty to play out just yet but I think coming from a 7 win season, most at the back end, I'm expecting some improvement.

I still think 2021 is when the list matures and should take off. The challenge will be the handful of older players dropping away but that's the challenge with all list builds.

Things would have been a lot different with a perfect recruiting period this season. If we did manage to land Martin, Papley, Betts, Coniglio expectations would well and truly be finals but that was not to be.

Certainly need a couple of big recruiting periods which involved mature age talent in the next couple of periods to hit our marks. Seem to have the players willing to come and cap space it's the next part in actually getting them.

 

[RoyalParade]

Does anyone understand the newnes situation?

Does he retain his free agent status in the DFA period, even if st. K offer him a contact?

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

Now that would be considered tampering

Better off doing absolutely nothing, apart from picking him up in the PSD

The media are now running with the idea.

The Age is reporting that it’s not an illegal move, but I’d too rather him in the PSD.

 

[Arr0w]

The media are now running with the idea.

The Age is reporting that it’s not an illegal move, but I’d too rather him in the PSD.

I would now only do a pick swap it benefits us, **** cockroach

 

[Stamos]

I would now only do a pick swap it benefits us, fu** cockroach

Any discussions about a possible pick swap should begin with "Seeing as you ****ed us over in the trade period, as a show of good faith delist Martin immediately. And then we can begin discussions."

 

[BluesRule]

The media are now running with the idea.

The Age is reporting that it’s not an illegal move, but I’d too rather him in the PSD.

As soon as Carlton do it - it will be illegal and unethical and we will be accused of cheating etc. etc.

Just Take Martin in PSD (or not if GCS really want to be dicks - again)

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Does anyone understand the newnes situation?

Does he retain his free agent status in the DFA period, even if st. K offer him a contact?

Newnes has so far chosen not to sign the current contract on offer, so he could simply choose to be a delisted free agent. As I understand, the recent contract offer to Newnes was significantly lower than his previous contract. Unsurprisingly, he probably feels quite annoyed and is assessing his current options as a DFA.