Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion II

[Jeremias]

Unconvinced Dow or Fisher are best 22 players, now or long term. I would sooner play Stocker ahead of both of them.

Both are very clearly in our current best 22.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Both are very clearly in our current best 22.

Based on form at seasons end? Not likely.

 

[thylacine60]

damn - wait till doc finds out he's not best 22.........

 

[gab213]

The good thing is that we are at the point where we could probably name at least 25-26 players who could be considered to be 'best 22'.

 

[thylacine60]

except they'd be best 25-26?

 

[Jeremias]

Based on form at seasons end? Not likely.

No.

Based on what they have shown in the system to date, on what they bring to the side, and on what our list will likely look like come round one next year.

 

[gab213]

except they'd be best 25-26?

Haha maybe, if you want to quantify it that way. This is why I don't like putting an arbitrary number on these things I guess.

 

[The Bighouse]

That wasn’t draft tampering at all, the Gold Coast just cut him (at his request). Brisbane didn’t trade them anything.

Wasn’t this done after the trade period or with some special circumstance approved to enable him to become a DFA? He was contracted but Brisbane had put forward a substantial offer for 3yrs.

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

That is called Draft tampering!
We would not be participating in next years draft.

Trust me.

The AFL won’t care so long as GC are compensated in some form.

 

[Stamos]

Wasn’t this done after the trade period or with some special circumstance approved to enable him to become a DFA? He was contracted but Brisbane had put forward a substantial offer for 3yrs.

It was after the trade period, but nothing particularly special about it. He asked to be delisted with a year to go on his contract, and the Suns we’re happy to cut him. Dew didn’t want to play him in the 1s, so they saved his salary.

 

[David C]

He is out of contract this year as a non free agent.

Can't see him staying at the GC for a further 12 months.

Yeh you're right, he is out of contract, my mistake. Big risk going to the main draft though. You would think it is the preseason draft or re-sign for 12 months. Depends on his relationship with GC I guess. If it is untenable then he is out of there now.

 

[Kramer1]

No.

Based on what they have shown in the system to date, on what they bring to the side, and on what our list will likely look like come round one next year.

Fisher absolutely I don't think Dow is necessarily best 22, let alone clearly.

A dozen sketchy possessions and little defensive running, interspersed with some admittedly great highlights, is not best 22.

 

[Faz 2000]

I'll buy up anyone's shares in Fisher and Dow. I think sooner or later they'll pay big dividends and everyone will be clambering aboard.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Unconvinced Dow or Fisher are best 22 players, now or long term. I would sooner play Stocker ahead of both of them.

Based on form at seasons end? Not likely.

Bit contradictory statement when Stocker's form was literally in the medical room. It is fine to be optimistic about a player's progression but lets be real. Fisher and Dow are currently and objectively better players at the season end than Stocker no matter how you spin it.

 

[Wickzki]

The good thing is that we are at the point where we could probably name at least 25-26 players who could be considered to be 'best 22'.

So we're still 4-5 players short of a premiership list.

I can live with that for now. It goes to show just how important snagging Martin will be in PSD and using our draft picks are. However, 25-26 players is much better than the half a dozen or so who would have been best 22 for good clubs not so long ago.

Dow and Fisher not best 22 BrisbaneCFC? Yikes. Disagree vehemently. Dow had a case of second year blues which isn't unheard of. He'll easily be a top 10 player on our list soon enough. Fisher had a poor year compared to the expectations that he would have set for himself. However, I believe Teaguey will find a consistent role for him that maximizes his strengths (which are developing into elite status) while minimizing his weaknesses (which will always be present due to his size unless he Caleb Daniels' it).

 

[Jeremias]

Fisher absolutely I don't think Dow is necessarily best 22, let alone clearly.

A dozen sketchy possessions and little defensive running, interspersed with some admittedly great highlights, is not best 22.

A dozen? He was averaging over 17 as a second year player over the first half of the year, coming off an interrupted preseason.

He fell away dramatically in the second half of the season, partly due to fatigue (which can be attributed to his preseason issues and the fact he was only 19), and partly due to spending virtually no time in the midfield at all.

He's definitely best 22 for mine. In fact I would not be at all surprised to see him start R1 vs Richmond in the centre square.

 

[Kramer1]

A dozen? He was averaging over 17 as a second year player over the first half of the year, coming off an interrupted preseason.

He fell away dramatically in the second half of the season, partly due to fatigue (which can be attributed to his preseason issues and the fact he was only 19), and partly due to spending virtually no time in the midfield at all.

He's definitely best 22 for mine. In fact I would not be at all surprised to see him start R1 vs Richmond in the centre square.

Well, 14 to be more precise. You don't think the disposal and defensive efforts are a concern?

I get the reasons...and collectively they are why he isn't clearly best 22. Of course, I hope he is sooner rather than later.

 

[Jeremias]

Well, 14 to be more precise. You don't think the disposal and defensive efforts are a concern?

He's a 20 year old kid 2 years into his AFL career.

Of course there are areas of his game he needs to work on - including disposal, defensive efforts, and fitness.

On the flip side there are things he's doing that not many, if any, of his draft class are at this stage of their careers.

I get the reasons...and collectively they are why he isn't clearly best 22. Of course, I hope he is sooner rather than later.

Fitness permitting, I'd be absolutely stunned if he wasn't in the seniors come round one.

He's arguably our second best contested ball player behind Cripps, and nobody else at this stage can provide the burst out of stoppages that he can.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Well, 14 to be more precise. You don't think the disposal and defensive efforts are a concern?

I get the reasons...and collectively they are why he isn't clearly best 22. Of course, I hope he is sooner rather than later.

He averaged 14 disposal for the year. Jeremias stated 17 disposal in the first half in which Dow averaged.

Hard to say if is best 22. If he starts as a 100% mid he is in best 22. If you going to chop and change him as forward probably not.

But I rather him spent 50% mid and forward so he can become a goal kicking mid along with Fisher, than after 3 - 4 years transition them into 80% mid time.

 

[gbatman]

Not bothered by Dow or Fisher yet but they have to take steps forward next season.

Dow has a lot to work on but I think he will be a good player when he gets some size about him and improves his running. Needs to develop his physicality and intensity. Pressure acts and kicking are a concern but in terms of strengths, weaknesses, development progression, athletic attributes there are similarities to Dangerfield here who has become a pretty good player. In saying that I am sure he's not the only player to be compared to someone like Dangerfield and hasn't gone on with it. No doubt Dangerfield worked hard to build his size, strength and athleticism and is a hard competitor. He still can't kick but he gets away with it by kicking long well.

Fisher needs to develop a hard edge and physical side to his game. He's small and fair enough but he keeps out of the way a bit much for mine and taking the next step means becoming a player who just goes at it consistently all day and shirks very little. Not an unusual issue for a young player to have but every grand final I watch I look at just how hard every player in the winning team goes at the contest and it just reminds me what your 22 must have if it's to win one of those. Got to have that intensity and physicality and almost reckless attack on the contest.

These guys will get their chance in 2020 to impress and with a healthy list they are going to have to be good to get a game. I have Fisher as fringe and Dow as just outside of best 22 but good performances can change all of that just as competition from other fringe and outside 22 players can.

It comes down to them in the end and I get the feeling we're going to build a list of talented players and come selection night we are going to pick the strongest competitors for our 22.

I'm looking forward to the competition for spots this year and I hope that our young players are at it now trying to catch up and turn themselves into not just good players at Carlton but good AFL players in general.

Teague and Co's biggest challenge will be turning these players into hard edged competitors who have a bit of mongrel and aren't afraid to take and dish out the hard stuff. You mix that with skill and athleticism and you have a really really good team.

 

[Keyza]

That wasn’t draft tampering at all, the Gold Coast just cut him (at his request). Brisbane didn’t trade them anything.

Ok. I thought they did some strange swap of draft picks.

 

[Arr0w]

Have no concerns with Fisher, guys that are that quick, nibble, elusive with his vision and left peg, rarely fail at AFL level.

Dow was always a concern for me given his poor disposal by foot as a junior, so he has to be allowed to hunt the ball, rather than playing an outside and or forward role

 

[Keyza]

Your not saying GFC would get the same penalty as Carlton?

Silly me, I should know better.

 

[Stamos]

Ok. I thought they did some strange swap of draft picks.

That was completely separate, and Brisbane won out big time.

 

[Keyza]

Wasn’t this done after the trade period or with some special circumstance approved to enable him to become a DFA? He was contracted but Brisbane had put forward a substantial offer for 3yrs.

That's what I thought too.