List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[VDS66]

So according to the article he hasn't even met with us lol.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

So according to the article he hasn't even met with us lol.

Has he met with Sandy?

 

[The_Snake26]

I think we should target a ruck that's not getting a game at their club..Goldy is not that ruck..how about Darcy Cameron from Swans or Zac Smith or Abbott from Cats

Why? We may as well just keep Longer.
Why not Goldstein? He’s an A Grade ruckman. Putting him on our list is 1 less A Grader we have to compete against.
Marshall plays the fwd/ruck roll. His output as a forward would be = to Bruce’s this year playing the same roll. He’s kicked 11 goals ffs. Yes he competes and i love him but we aren’t winning finals with him as #1. Bruce becomes kpf backup at Sandy.
Mayb if we mix up our forward line we might find a winning formula. Cause at the moment the Bruce/Membrey combo isn’t working. We average 10 goals per game in 2019.
King Marshall Membrey in 2020 with Bruce as backup looks ok to me. Especially with our high ball/bomb it long game plan fwd of centre.
Mayb just Mayb we could try something different

 

[SufferingS8INT]

I know you never mentioned picks but tell me how we get bing

They have plenty of youth so would prefer ready made players

 

[MrFoster]

Why? We may as well just keep Longer.
Why not Goldstein? He’s an A Grade ruckman. Putting him on our list is 1 less A Grader we have to compete against.
Marshall plays the fwd/ruck roll. His output as a forward would be = to Bruce’s this year playing the same roll. He’s kicked 11 goals ffs. Yes he competes and i love him but we aren’t winning finals with him as #1. Bruce becomes kpf backup at Sandy.
Mayb if we mix up our forward line we might find a winning formula. Cause at the moment the Bruce/Membrey combo isn’t working. We average 10 goals per game in 2019.
King Marshall Membrey in 2020 with Bruce as backup looks ok to me. Especially with our high ball/bomb it long game plan fwd of centre.
Mayb just Mayb we could try something different

Exactly, what we need more is quality... Geelong had Selwood, Kelly, Duncan, Dangerfield, and they still brought in an over the hill Ablett, and found a spot for him on the half forward now.. If we can add genuine quality at no cost (apart from cap space), and Goldy wants to come, we should do it.. his salary may not be not much more than Longer and Pierce’s salaries combined..

 

[SufferingS8INT]

As a follow up- us hypothically trading marshall to bring in goldstein and cunnington is akin to what hawthorn did last year trading burton to get wingard.

The hawks weren't afraid to fix a gap in their best 22 by selling off surplus from elsewhere (no matter how much of a gun that surplus happened to be).

Yes roma is looking fantastic- but our list is looking putrid, particularly the midfield.

I'm sick of cheering on singular champions in otherwise crap stkilda teams.

Those worried about the gap left by roma in a few years time when goldy winds down remind me of someone who is has their foot stuck in a bear trap... yet is more concerned about global warming.

Sure- global warming is concerning- but how about we focus on the more immediate dangers of bleeding to death first.

Our whole team needs a dramatic overhaul- specifically the midfield which is utterly embarrassing.

Dramatic overhaul is not going to occur by prayers for RFAs like Cogs to magically want to come and rescue us.

We've missed finals for 8 years now, with no end in sight.

The club itself is likely to not be able to withstand another 5 years of rebuilding.

I understand your point. We have to trade someone of value to improve our deficiencies, but Roma is a rare find. Would be much better trading players like Acres, Ross, Newnes, Sinclair who have currency and still have potential and we can afford to lose. (Although, Clark and Coffields form is making this more of a risk)

 

[pebblesofsand]

So according to the article he hasn't even met with us lol.

Yeah that's probably right. I mean how many players meet with other teams recruiting staff during the season.

Now to the real questions - How often to recruiting staff meet with managers of players who are of contract at the end of a season?

How often do players out of contract at the end season ask their managers to check out their current market value?

 

[CaptainRisky]

Just scanned through the last half a dozen pages as i cant be bothered reading all the garbage about some thinking trading Roma would be a good idea, Mods , the next person who talks about trading Roma ban them , i will play you to do it .
How i see it
1 Roma has been one of the only positive things to come out of this season so far and who knows how high his ceiling is as the kid just keeps getting better
2 Thank christ those talking about trading him are only on the forum , not the saints board
3 The Two King boys and Roma in 2-3 years could be one of the best combinations of big men seen on the field for a very long time

 

[Saintbloke]

Just scanned through the last half a dozen pages as i cant be bothered reading all the garbage about some thinking trading Roma would be a good idea, Mods , the next person who talks about trading Roma ban them , i will play you to do it .
How i see it
1 Roma has been one of the only positive things to come out of this season so far and who knows how high his ceiling is as the kid just keeps getting better
2 Thank christ those talking about trading him are only on the forum , not the saints board
3 The Two King boys and Roma in 2-3 years could be one of the best combinations of big men seen on the field for a very long time

Well that could sort out what's going on in the air, but when the ball hits the ground, that's where our problems lie, and the club needs to get its act together to build a better midfield, otherwise we will be going nowhere.

 

[gringo2011]

Problem I see is that we argue through the paradigm of "one of our best".

Just because a player is one of our best, doesn't mean they are the ultimate.

Bruce is one of our best forwards but isn't a competition great forward.

Marshall is our best ruck but look at the alternatives on our list.

But if you have a kid that looks like they are tracking to be elite by position and it's probably the one thing you've got right in years all of a sudden you go, "why fast track him like Brody Grundy was, let's bring in an elite older ruckman" what logical sense does it make. One of the reasons we retired guys like Montagna was to make spots open for kids coming through. If you have an old champion the temptation will always be to put them in first.

We claim it's so he can play like he did last year when he was okay but nothing special. I guess we hope that the progress he's made in ruck will be equal to the progress he's made as a forward, at the intra club he was playing forward for a while and looked dangerous but didn't get much of the ball. They moved him into the ruck and he roamed around collecting marks and setting up play through smart vision. I mentioned he looked the classiest big man on the ground but it wasn't when he was forward.

I can see the logic of a second ruck to rest him but I think I'd rather get battler back up ruck for an emergency and spend that money and time on Ellis or Coniglio. Wait until King is in and can chop out as a stoppage ruck.

Sexton from GC is probably the other one you'd look at, he's probably the most improved player in footy. Ed Curnow might be over Carlton and is playing well too.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Well that could sort out what's going on in the air, but when the ball hits the ground, that's where our problems lie, and the club needs to get its act together to build a better midfield, otherwise we will be going nowhere.

Well thanks for letting me know , but i was talking about Roma , I think every sainter knows we need a better midfield but trading roma to get a mid is the dumbest thing i have ever heard if thats what your proposing , who will ruck -Blake , Bruce or maybe Goldy for 2 years and then what

 

[gringo2011]

Just scanned through the last half a dozen pages as i cant be bothered reading all the garbage about some thinking trading Roma would be a good idea, Mods , the next person who talks about trading Roma ban them , i will play you to do it .
How i see it
1 Roma has been one of the only positive things to come out of this season so far and who knows how high his ceiling is as the kid just keeps getting better
2 Thank christ those talking about trading him are only on the forum , not the saints board
3 The Two King boys and Roma in 2-3 years could be one of the best combinations of big men seen on the field for a very long time

You know it makes sense, trading our best players will make us a top side. Should package Gresham as well. See if we can get Goldstein and Richard Douglas as replacements.

I still don't know why we don't have some kind of list architect. Galagher seems to have been bought in from banking sales and has no experience. Neil Blame is like a full director and has responsibility for setting direction and translating what the coaches want from list management, drafting and trading.

It sounds as though Lethlean overruled Libba and took King when Libba wanted Rozee, so far it's possible that it was a good move but it's a worry from another perspective.

I'm really not sold on going after King until we have our midfield sorted. We aren't going anywhere until we do. It's not the 80s any more.

 

[gringo2011]

I understand your point. We have to trade someone of value to improve our deficiencies, but Roma is a rare find. Would be much better trading players like Acres, Ross, Newnes, Sinclair who have currency and still have potential and we can afford to lose. (Although, Clark and Coffields form is making this more of a risk)

We have a really young list, we shouldn't be trading out players who are going okay unless we are going full bottom out rebuild again. We need to get someone who can find talent and bring in FAs even if they aren't elite.

 

[CaptainRisky]

You know it makes sense, trading our best players will make us a top side. Should package Gresham as well. See if we can get Goldstein and Richard Douglas as replacements.

I still don't know why we don't have some kind of list architect. Galagher seems to have been bought in from banking sales and has no experience. Neil Blame is like a full director and has responsibility for setting direction and translating what the coaches want from list management, drafting and trading.

It sounds as though Lethlean overruled Libba and took King when Libba wanted Rozee, so far it's possible that it was a good move but it's a worry from another perspective.

I'm really not sold on going after King until we have our midfield sorted. We aren't going anywhere until we do. It's not the 80s any more.

Where did you hear that ?

 

[plugger66]

Grundy and Gawn are also averaging 43 hit outs a game, compared to Marshall’s 26.. and the quality of hit outs would be much higher coming from Grundy and Gawn.. I’m not knocking Marshall, he has done brilliantly for a rookie ruckman, but pinging all our hope on a potential of a young player new to the craft of ruck (he was a forward/hackman in the juniors).. what if his form drops, or injured or doesn’t improve as we expected? If he is as good as Grundy and Gawn, even Goldstein now.. I get the logic, but the fact that he is still learning and developing/is young, there is little harm with adding an experienced older ruck at little cost, providing competition and teaching.. If Marshall can’t win the spot from an aging Goldstein, then maybe he is not the “prospect” after all?

If their quality of hit outs are so good and the mids of both those sides are rated highly surely they should be smashing sides in clearances and wins which at the end of the day is what it’s all about. I would suggest they are doing neither. Hit outs are the most overrated stat in footy. Show me the nit outs to disadvantage and I will be happy. By the way we aren’t comparing Marshall to Gawn and Grundy. We are comparing him to Goldstein. How are north going?

And more importantly those justifying the trade refuse to see the improvement in Marshall this year when basically doing pre season as a forward. Imagine the improvement next year when doing pre season as the first ruck. Unfortunately that won’t happen if we get goldy. Crazy stuff. Hopefully an June fools day joke.

 

[The_Steadier]

I understand your point. We have to trade someone of value to improve our deficiencies, but Roma is a rare find. Would be much better trading players like Acres, Ross, Newnes, Sinclair who have currency and still have potential and we can afford to lose. (Although, Clark and Coffields form is making this more of a risk)

None of those guys will get us any closer to getting elite midfielders by trading them.
None of them would fetch more than a 2nd rounder or equivalent current player.

That also raises the point about our midfield though- there's nothing inherently wrong with the likes of Acres, Ross, Newnes, Sincs, Dunstan etc.
They are decent players- and you need decent players if you want to be successful.

The problem isn't having those guys on the list- the problem is that they are our MAIN guys.

Have a look at geelong- mitch duncan is like their ~5th best mid. He'd instantly come in and be our best mid.
Same goes for all the top teams- beams comes into collingwood as like their 5th best mid etc.

We don't need to fix the footsoldiers/depth in our midfield- we need to fix the top end.

Fiddling around with trading the likes of Acres etc will just be shuffling deckchairs on the titanic.


If we brought in 2 elite gun midfielders- the likes of ross, newnes etc would look as good as guys like sidebottom, duncan etc etc.

 

[Mikka84]

How is Marshall’s tank compared to Bruce?

One thing Bruce gives us is as well as clunking a few marks and bringing the ball to ground (for behinds or turnovers) is run well and can stretch the back line.

Tried to look up some stats on the AFL app but it only gives the top 5 players for ground covered.

He seems to cover a lot of ground though running with the mids.

I don’t think Marshall is a key forward at all. But I also like a ruckman to be able to rest forward and make a difference.

Reality this year is Bruce has kicked 13 goals from 11 games as the number one target. I love the guy, one of the best to have a beer with, but reality is he’s not performing as a true forward. King will only hurt this more next year you would think. We don’t have anyone to challenge him this year.

He’s not the biggest problem though.. the mids are. Which is why I’m so disappointed with the development &/or handling of Clark & co.. they need to be the future.

Anyway, know idea how to quick fix it and think it will be a slow burn over next couple of years. Hopefully we can land a free agent do a trade or two and improve in the draft.

 

[plugger66]

Problem I see is that we argue through the paradigm of "one of our best".

Just because a player is one of our best, doesn't mean they are the ultimate.

Bruce is one of our best forwards but isn't a competition great forward.

Marshall is our best ruck but look at the alternatives on our list.

Totally agree. Let’s get Cameron to replace Bruce and Grundy to replace Marshall. Why we are at it Fyffe for Ross and danger for steele

 

[plugger66]

I don’t think Marshall is a key forward at all. But I also like a ruckman to be able to rest forward and make a difference.

Reality this year is Bruce has kicked 13 goals from 11 games as the number one target. I love the guy, one of the best to have a beer with, but reality is he’s not performing as a true forward. King will only hurt this more next year you would think. We don’t have anyone to challenge him this year.

He’s not the biggest problem though.. the mids are. Which is why I’m so disappointed with the development &/or handling of Clark & co.. they need to be the future.

Anyway, know idea how to quick fix it and think it will be a slow burn over next couple of years. Hopefully we can land a free agent do a trade or two and improve in the draft.

I think you can only be disappointed in the development of Clark in a couple of years time. At the same stage of Stevens career he had played less game. Dunstan has played nearly every game. There is no right or wrong way. Looking at Clark body shape suggests he is far from ready. No where near the finished product

 

[TheJackal]

I have really bagged Bruce in the past but I am back on board this year after watching his preseason and training a lot. The article recently mentioning he has had a fracture in his back and a corkie which meant he had to spend time in hospital has explained his up and down form this year.

I don't think he is up for trade under any circumstances. Bruce, Members and Winx would be a formidable tall forward set up with the likes of Parker, Lonie, Long, Gresh and Co at their feet.

Marshall is the perfect modern day mobile ruck who can rest up forward, his improvement this year is phenomenal. We shouldn't be looking to mess with this at all.

 

[AirWinmar]

It's getting goldy AND a taranto/cunnington level A grade midfielder for marshall.

What is so self harming about that?

The idea of trading is to make your TEAM better, not indiscrimantly collect or protect valuable pieces.

Sure, after a few years we'd need to replace goldy with a new first ruck.

My view is suitable first rucks can be acquired and/or developed far easier than elite A grade midfielders.
(My evidence being that most successful and premiership winning sides of recent years have done so without anymore than good ordinary footsoldier ruckmen- dogs, tigers, wc- plus a host of top 4 teams over the years too like sydney etc etc.)

Sure- elite ruckmen like gawn, grundy etc are handy and valuable- but by no means are they necessary to success.
On the other hand- elite A grade midfielders are ABSOLUTELY, UNQUESTIONABLY essential to success.

I don't need to remind anyone around here that we literally have zero elite midfielders on our list, possibly j steven aside.

Worse still- the prospect of anyone on the list BECOMING an A grade elite mid are sketchy at best- billings? Gresh? Clark? Coffield? Hannebury?

That means we basically have zero chance of TEAM success without either trading for elite mids or getting RFA elite mids.

We will never land a shiel, cogs, etc type RFA so forget that fantasy.

So that leaves our only practical chance at team success with trading.

NOT having roma on the table would be as dumb a move as any

If we were to do this i think Carlisle is probably a better option who has trade currency and less years. Marshall still potentially a lot of upside still to go. Only reason i think Goldy would be good to get is he would come free, but would be tough to fit in the team next year with King in as well unless you played both Goldy and Marshall somehow. If we wanted 2 ruck team we certainly cant do that with Longer as he gives us too little around the ground.

I think all the mids you mentioned have a good chance of becoming elite mids. Billings has been cery good this season, its Gresh's first 10 games playing mid only and has had some elite performances, etc.

 

[gringo2011]

Where did you hear that ?

I think it's was a couple of different posters on here but can't remember who. It's been mentioned multiple times on the forum though. I hope to **** we got it right, so far so good. Lethers would need to be run out of town with pitch forks if he's not equal to Rozee.

 

[bird_man]

Where is has the talk that Lethlean overruled Libba to pick king instead of Rozee come from?

Everything I've heard is that Libba was super keen on King and wanted him from the start of the year.

 

[The_Steadier]

I have really bagged Bruce in the past but I am back on board this year after watching his preseason and training a lot. The article recently mentioning he has had a fracture in his back and a corkie which meant he had to spend time in hospital has explained his up and down form this year.

I don't think he is up for trade under any circumstances. Bruce, Members and Winx would be a formidable tall forward set up with the likes of Parker, Lonie, Long, Gresh and Co at their feet.

Marshall is the perfect modern day mobile ruck who can rest up forward, his improvement this year is phenomenal. We shouldn't be looking to mess with this at all.

We're staring down the barrel of missing finals for like the 9th year in a row.

We should be looking to mess with everything.

 

[plugger66]

We're staring down the barrel of missing finals for like the 9th year in a row.

We should be looking to mess with everything.

Agreed but that doesn’t mean doing trades that don’t improve you. I don’t know if it’s the club or the board or maybe both who has a fascination with talls but I think it’s time we get a fascination with mids. Class mids so that means early draft picks and trades.