List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[BrutThough]

Marshall is already playing at an elite level and we're being flogged every week.

If he's not stopping us getting flogged every week getting 25 possies, heaps of clearances, goals etc.... what makes you convinced him getting 30 possies every week etc next year is going to change anything?

Our midfield are being absolutely spanked every week because we've got B and C graders lining up against A graders in the middle.

Marshall could win the brownlow next year averaging 35 possies and 3 goals a game, and we'd still finish 15th if we keep the list broadly the same as this year.

Shouldn't we be aiming to get in an A grade midfielder to play along side Marshall so we have multiple players playing at an Elite level than trading out one of our few players playing at the level to get another one?

2 Elite players are better than 1.

 

[plugger66]

I love Bruce, but he shouldn't be applauded for playing significantly injured- he should be scolded!

This is a constant problem with our team over the richo years.
It seems that internally the culture is to reward blokes with respect for 'sucking it up' and putting their hand up for selection when carrying injuries.
Ie- "wow, how courageous is that- playing through adversity"

Sure, you don't want a team full of daniel wells types that will sit out with a papercut, and it's a reality that most AFL players play injured to some extent every week....
But we let it go too far I think- guys that are substantially hobbled/restricted are allowed to get selected by passing brief fitness tests where they can 'suck it up' and move freely for a short period... but always get found out in a game.

Bruce with his corkie is just the latest in a long line of these instances over the years (weller, newnes etc etc.)

Even geary in china- he was clearly well below his best before getting injured again... All the leadup press from the club was all about how remarkable he is getting back so quick etc.

The club/richo get sucked in by players wanting to show their courage and grit over and over again.

Been happening for as long as I remember. Not just a richo thing and I suspect not just a saints thing. We just know our players better and the injuries they have.

 

[The_Steadier]

Getting Goldstein and trading Roma doesn't improve our ruck.
You want a quick fix to win a couple more games in the short term.
It's your opinion and purely emotional speculation that keeping Roma will leave us near the bottom of the ladder.

1. I love marshall- but only rose coloured glasses would have you say that as of today he is the equivalent of, or better than todd goldstein.

2. Cashing in marshall for:
An elite mid with lots of years of elite football left, while simultaneously getting in an elite AA ruckman who has missed 10 games of football in 10 years and showing zero signs of slowing down anytime soon....

That's a short term fix?

3. On the contrary- those of you calling it blasphemous to ever raise Marshall's name as a trade option are bringing too much emotion into it.

To me it looks like you are blinded by the light from 1 shining diamond in amongst a pile of cow dung...
and you can't see that you'd be much better off overall selling the diamond so you could pay someone to get rid of all that poop.

 

[Moral Decay]

Just before we started on the ill-fated Goldy to St.Kilda premature autopsy, didn't someone post about us putting a big offer to Gawn? Does this have legs?

 

[plugger66]

1. I love marshall- but only rose coloured glasses would have you say that as of today he is the equivalent of, or better than todd goldstein.

2. Cashing in marshall for:
An elite mid with lots of years of elite football left, while simultaneously getting in an elite AA ruckman who has missed 10 games of football in 10 years and showing zero signs of slowing down anytime soon....

That's a short term fix?

3. On the contrary- those of you calling it blasphemous to ever raise Marshall's name as a trade option are bringing too much emotion into it.

To me it looks like you are blinded by the light from 1 shining diamond in amongst a pile of cow dung...
and you can't see that you'd be much better off overall selling the diamond so you could pay someone to get rid of all that poop.

Would you trade king for an elite mid well second tier mid because that’s all we are getting for Marshall.

 

[plugger66]

Just before we started on the ill-fated Goldy to St.Kilda premature autopsy, didn't someone post about us putting a big offer to Gawn? Does this have legs?

I doubt it very much. Gawn won’t leave Melbourne unless Melbourne want him to leave.

 

[The_Steadier]

Shouldn't we be aiming to get in an A grade midfielder to play along side Marshall so we have multiple players playing at an Elite level

Of course yes- but we have nothing on our list that would attract a genuine A grade mid from another club outside of Marshall, Gresh and Billings.

Obviously those last 2 are out because trading them would amount to weakening our midfield in the process of trying to strengthen our midfield.
So that leaves Marshall as the only genuine option to getting a genuine A grade midfielder.

(unless you believe in miracles and unicorns and elite RFA's who will move to clubs who aren't in premiership contention)

2 Elite players are better than 1.

Exactly.
Enter Todd Goldstein.
We could replace marshalls elite output in the ruck for a few years for free getting goldstein- while adding a cunnington/taranto type to the midfield.

 

[VDS66]

I doubt it very much. Gawn won’t leave Melbourne unless Melbourne want him to leave.

So he's Gawn but not Gawn...

 

[Moral Decay]

I doubt it very much. Gawn won’t leave Melbourne unless Melbourne want him to leave.

I would have thought so too, but I was wondering, a 10 year player if he's out of contract he's UFA, would only cost money and a decade at Melbourne with the constant unfulfilled most likely to be premiers tag, a swap to a club with the money to spend and as much hope but more realism could be the change of scenery he needs.

Either way it's more about whether we would want him, given the negativity about Goldy would big Max be more tempting? Has anyone heard of an offer?

 

[VDS66]

Jeremy Bruce

Jeremy Bruce

Bruce Jeremy

Ron Jeremy

Solved.

 

[The_Steadier]

Would you trade king for an elite mid well second tier mid because that’s all we are getting for Marshall.

For a bloke who has the vision and imagination to declare that Marshall can be the best AFL ruckman within the next 2 years...
you sure are surprisingly short on optimism when looking at a bloke like isaac heeney or tim taranto and condemning them as merely 2nd tier midfielders.

 

[VDS66]

Of course yes- but we have nothing on our list that would attract a genuine A grade mid from another club outside of Marshall, Gresh and Billings.

Obviously those last 2 are out because trading them would amount to weakening our midfield in the process of trying to strengthen our midfield.
So that leaves Marshall as the only genuine option to getting a genuine A grade midfielder.

(unless you believe in miracles and unicorns and elite RFA's who will move to clubs who aren't in premiership contention)



Exactly.
Enter Todd Goldstein.
We could replace marshalls elite output in the ruck for a few years for free getting goldstein- while adding a cunnington/taranto type to the midfield.

We have Acres. Potential top 10 pick if played in the right position..

 

[plugger66]

For a bloke who has the vision and imagination to declare that Marshall can be the best AFL ruckman within the next 2 years...
you sure are surprisingly short on optimism when looking at a bloke like isaac heeney or tim taranto and condemning them as merely 2nd tier midfielders.

Well they aren’t Fyffe danger or even kelly. So would you trade max for either of them

 

[The_Steadier]

We have Acres. Potential top 10 pick if played in the right position..

Potentially- sure.
But in this hypothetical situation where say richo gets sacked, ratts comes in and unleashes the goat.... who goes on a rampage as a dominating midfielder worthy of a top 10 pick....

We'd want to KEEP him, not trade him!

Acres doing that wouldn't fix our issues though by the way- we'd still need to bring in 1 or 2 additional A grade midfielders if we're any shot of making and winning finals.

As plugger pointed out earlier- we are not 1 gun midfielder away from success, we're a lot further back than that.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

1. I love marshall- but only rose coloured glasses would have you say that as of today he is the equivalent of, or better than todd goldstein.

2. Cashing in marshall for:
An elite mid with lots of years of elite football left, while simultaneously getting in an elite AA ruckman who has missed 10 games of football in 10 years and showing zero signs of slowing down anytime soon....

That's a short term fix?

3. On the contrary- those of you calling it blasphemous to ever raise Marshall's name as a trade option are bringing too much emotion into it.

To me it looks like you are blinded by the light from 1 shining diamond in amongst a pile of cow dung...
and you can't see that you'd be much better off overall selling the diamond so you could pay someone to get rid of all that poop.

Wheres the improvement?

One on the way down, one on the way up.
We don't want to become a feeder club where we grow young talent and then pass them off to get some aging good players in the hopes they will take us to a final.

We potentially have 1 AA mid coming in the return of hanneberry. If Steven makes it back that's another great mid in. The rise of Clark, Coffield and Bytel should see another. And the continued growth of Gresh and Billings.

We are heading in the right direction. Now is not to the time to trade out our best and most promising player this year to trade in a couple guys with a few years left. In one or two years when we are saying "gosh we would be a top team if we had a good ruckman" who do we trade out?

How are the bombers going after getting an elite mid in Shiel?

 

[The_Steadier]

Well they aren’t Fyffe danger or even kelly. So would you trade max for either of them

I'd trade King for Kelly in a heartbeat.

Fyfe or Danger? Maybe, that would be a tough call.

 

[BrutThough]

Of course yes- but we have nothing on our list that would attract a genuine A grade mid from another club outside of Marshall, Gresh and Billings.

Obviously those last 2 are out because trading them would amount to weakening our midfield in the process of trying to strengthen our midfield.
So that leaves Marshall as the only genuine option to getting a genuine A grade midfielder.

(unless you believe in miracles and unicorns and elite RFA's who will move to clubs who aren't in premiership contention)



Exactly.
Enter Todd Goldstein.
We could replace marshalls elite output in the ruck for a few years for free getting goldstein- while adding a cunnington/taranto type to the midfield.

Do you think we can win the premiership in the next two years?
Because by selling a guy who could our ruckman for the next decade and replacing him with someone who only have 2 years left is a move that prioritising the now and something you do to try and win the flag immediately.

Because in two years time we will be in the predicament of needed an elite ruckman to be competitive and the guy we gave away will be dominating for another team.

 

[plugger66]

I'd trade King for Kelly in a heartbeat.

Fyfe or Danger? Maybe, that would be a tough call.

No I meant your 2 because that’s the best we would get for marshall

 

[Yawkey way]

I love Bruce, but he shouldn't be applauded for playing significantly injured- he should be scolded!

This is a constant problem with our team over the richo years.
It seems that internally the culture is to reward blokes with respect for 'sucking it up' and putting their hand up for selection when carrying injuries.
Ie- "wow, how courageous is that- playing through adversity"

Sure, you don't want a team full of daniel wells types that will sit out with a papercut, and it's a reality that most AFL players play injured to some extent every week....
But we let it go too far I think- guys that are substantially hobbled/restricted are allowed to get selected by passing brief fitness tests where they can 'suck it up' and move freely for a short period... but always get found out in a game.

Bruce with his corkie is just the latest in a long line of these instances over the years (weller, newnes etc etc.)

Even geary in china- he was clearly well below his best before getting injured again... All the leadup press from the club was all about how remarkable he is getting back so quick etc.

The club/richo get sucked in by players wanting to show their courage and grit over and over again.

That’s one way to spin it I guess, I really dont see it that way though.

When the club doctor is there with Bruce and he’s still in hospital overnight when richo and the gang turn up to visit gears it’s a bit hard to believe they thought he would be right to go. We have consistently played injured players so what does that suggest to you player or club.

 

[The_Steadier]

Wheres the improvement?
View attachment 688638
One on the way down, one on the way up.
We don't want to become a feeder club where we grow young talent and then pass them off to get some aging good players in the hopes they will take us to a final.

We potentially have 1 AA mid coming in the return of hanneberry. If Steven makes it back that's another great mid in. The rise of Clark, Coffield and Bytel should see another. And the continued growth of Gresh and Billings.

We are heading in the right direction. Now is not to the time to trade out our best and most promising player this year to trade in a couple guys with a few years left. In one or two years when we are saying "gosh we would be a top team if we had a good ruckman" who do we trade out?

How are the bombers going after getting an elite mid in Shiel?

You can't rely on stats to make an argument, then say something like goldy is on the way down.
He's playing this year at the same level he has played for the last 10 years- elite.

Where's the improvement in 2020 in the ruck having goldstein instead of marshall?
I'd much rather have the experience of goldstein in an elimination final ahead of the still developing marshall.

How are the bombers going after getting an elite mid in Shiel?

Better than they would be going without him for sure.
They are missing their bnf winning midfielder this year- they'd be in an even deeper hole without Shiel.

 

[The_Steadier]

No I meant your 2 because that’s the best we would get for marshall

Oh- would I trade King for taranto or heeney?

Absolutely.

 

[plugger66]

Oh- would I trade King for taranto or heeney?

Absolutely.

Seriously. I do agree he hasn’t proven a think but that means you think the trade was not a great idea.

 

[The_Steadier]

Do you think we can win the premiership in the next two years?
Because by selling a guy who could our ruckman for the next decade and replacing him with someone who only have 2 years left is a move that prioritising the now and something you do to try and win the flag immediately.

Because in two years time we will be in the predicament of needed an elite ruckman to be competitive and the guy we gave away will be dominating for another team.

No I don't think we can win a flag in the next 2 years.

I reject the argument the we (or any other club) need an elite ruckman to be competitive.

In case you missed it, the reigning premiers just traded in tom hickey as their ruckman and won a flag missing their elite ruckman the whole year.

The year before- the tigers won a flag with toby nankervis and shawn grigg.

The year before- the bulldogs won with jordan roughead and tom boyd

This year the giants are chasing a flag with a 100 year old, half broken mumford

etc

etc


After a few years of goldy- we go get say gawn as an UFA at the end of 2021, or some other nankervis/ callum sinclair/etc equivalent player.

 

[plugger66]

No I don't think we can win a flag in the next 2 years.

I reject the argument the we (or any other club) need an elite ruckman to be competitive.

In case you missed it, the reigning premiers just traded in tom hickey as their ruckman and won a flag missing their elite ruckman the whole year.

The year before- the tigers won a flag with toby nankervis and shawn grigg.

The year before- the bulldogs won with jordan roughead and tom boyd

This year the giants are chasing a flag with a 100 year old, half broken mumford

etc

etc


After a few years of goldy- we go get say gawn as an UFA at the end of 2021, or some other nankervis/ callum sinclair/etc equivalent player.

Now that I do agree about winning a flag without an elite ruck but I don’t believe you throw out an elite ruck if you potentially have one. Ruck is actually part of the midfield

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

You can't rely on stats to make an argument, then say something like goldy is on the way down.
He's playing this year at the same level he has played for the last 10 years- elite.

Where's the improvement in 2020 in the ruck having goldstein instead of marshall?
I'd much rather have the experience of goldstein in an elimination final ahead of the still developing marshall.

Better than they would be going without him for sure.
They are missing their bnf winning midfielder this year- they'd be in an even deeper hole without Shiel.

Of course Goldstein is on the way down... he's on the wrong side of 30.

Ahh right so the improvement comes from who you would rather in a hypothetical situation where we make an elimination final.

Just so you know by the way, the kangaroos are ranked last for clearances this year.