List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[MrFoster]

I reckon the supporters expect too much from Bruce.

He is our only real genuine tall forward and is he expected to play CHF, up the ground and at times ruck as well. (That's disregarding out appalling forward entries.) I reckon its remarkable that he's managed to score 13 goals for the season under that scenario.

Will be interesting to see what happens later in the season when you'd expect that King will get a run. There's no way they will drop Bruce for King so we will play with a second genuine tall forward. That leaves Bruce to roam a bit more, still play second ruck and then not also have to get back to play key forward as well.

You never know that may even lead the club choosing to move the ball a bit more quickly.

Exactly, at any top sides with good mids and decent forward entries like Geelong, West coast, Bruce will kick 40-50 goals a season..

Even plugger/Dunstan/Carey/Ablett will struggle to kick goals in our forward line..
Forwards are not the problem., it’s the midfield division as a whole. that includes Inside/outside mids and the ruck.. we only have one decent ruck in Marshall, instead of getting an unknown quantity by drafting an 18 y/o or a young and inexperienced one from another team, getting Goldstein as a free agent is a no brainer.. We haven’t had a decent ruck since and aging King and Gardiner retired.. I know some on here do not rate ruckman, but the fact that Grundy, Dawn and Goldstein (in his prime) are match winners tells you different story.. If taps doesn’t matter, then Acres should be killing it in the ruck, he is not, and our mids are poor as a result.. the number of times that opposition mids just take the ball from centr bounces and just stroll into the forward line with space is appalling., that’s when Marshall is rucking... yes, Marshall has improved, but what’s the problem with providing more competition and as a result improving the team/performance as a whole.. the idea that existing players are good enough or have potential (Acres, Dunstan, Billings, Mccartin) so no need to turn the list over is the reason why we are a middle of the rung team..

By the way, I’m not saying trading Marshall, just add more quality in free agent if possible instead of hanging onto dead wood Longer/Pierce for 7 years... For those don’t rate ruckman, it’s the same people who were filthy when we traded Macevoy and Stanley.. both were poor ruckman (now they have improved in their prospective teams).. the fact that we wasted the draft picks doesn’t mean the trade was wrong..

 

[plugger66]

Exactly, at any top sides with good mids and decent forward entries like Geelong, West coast, Bruce will kick 40-50 goals a season..

Even plugger/Dunstan/Carey/Ablett will struggle to kick goals in our forward line..
Forwards are not the problem., it’s the midfield division as a whole. that includes Inside/outside mids and the ruck.. we only have one decent ruck in Marshall, instead of getting an unknown quantity by drafting an 18 y/o or a young and inexperienced one from another team, getting Goldstein as a free agent is a no brainer.. We haven’t had a decent ruck since and aging King and Gardiner retired.. I know some on here do not rate ruckman, but the fact that Grundy, Dawn and Goldstein (in his prime) are match winners tells you different story.. If taps doesn’t matter, then Acres should be killing it in the ruck, he is not, and our mids are poor as a result.. the number of times that opposition mids just take the ball from centr bounces and just stroll into the forward line with space is appalling., that’s when Marshall is tucking... yes, Marshall has improved, but what’s the problem with providing more competition and as a result improving the team/performance as a whole.. the idea that existing players are good enough or have potential (Acres, Dunstan, Billings, Mccartin) are the reason why we are a middle of the rung team..

Just out of interest let’s pretend everyone is available and we get goldy. How is the ruck and forward line set up?

 

[MrFoster]

Play Bruce, Membrey forward.. Swap Goldy and Marshall between ruck and full forward.. both are mobile enough and good marks.

People will say why not play King.. King is still developing and just come off a major ACL injury.. why not let him develop in VFL and get some real continuity.. If King is really pushing for a position in the forward line.. it becomes a good headache to have.. swapping him with either Bruce or Membrey depending on form.. this way, there’s always competition to keep everyone on their toes.

Basically we have:
Rotating rucks - Marshall, Goldstein
Forwards: Bruce, Membrey, (King)

5 good players in 4 spots.. King is the sub. should be able to cope with Injury/suspension/form loss etc.

That said we have to fix our forward entries/midfield next year. no forward set up will work with our shocking inside 50 entries.

 

[plugger66]

Play Bruce, Membrey forward.. Swap Goldy and Marshall between ruck and full forward.. both are mobile enough and good marks.

People will say why not play King.. King is still developing and just come off a major ACL injury.. why not let him develop in VFL and get some real continuity.. If King is really pushing for a position in the forward line.. it becomes a good headache to have.. swapping him with either Bruce or Membrey depending on form.. this way, there’s always competition to keep everyone on their toes.

Basically we have:
Rotating rucks - Marshall, Goldstein
Forwards: Bruce, Membrey, King

5 good players in 4 spots.. should be able to cope with Injury/suspension/form loss etc.

That said we have to fix our forward entries/midfield next year. no forward set up will work with our shocking inside 50 entries.

They will play king so it’s either Marshall or Bruce. Goldy is not a forward so then Marshall gets 5 minutes in the **** a quarter. Crazy stuff and that’s if he plays at all because I’d rather Bruce than Marshall up forward. And what side have 5 genuine falls into 4 positions. If we need another ruck just keep longer. Back up rucks should never be first rucks.

 

[VDS66]

Just out of interest let’s pretend everyone is available and we get goldy. How is the ruck and forward line set up?

So you just keep asking the same questions so you dispute the answers?

 

[mightymalaka]

Exactly, at any top sides with good mids and decent forward entries like Geelong, West coast, Bruce will kick 40-50 goals a season..

Even plugger/Dunstan/Carey/Ablett will struggle to kick goals in our forward line..
Forwards are not the problem., it’s the midfield division as a whole. that includes Inside/outside mids and the ruck.. we only have one decent ruck in Marshall, instead of getting an unknown quantity by drafting an 18 y/o or a young and inexperienced one from another team, getting Goldstein as a free agent is a no brainer.. We haven’t had a decent ruck since and aging King and Gardiner retired.. I know some on here do not rate ruckman, but the fact that Grundy, Dawn and Goldstein (in his prime) are match winners tells you different story.. If taps doesn’t matter, then Acres should be killing it in the ruck, he is not, and our mids are poor as a result.. the number of times that opposition mids just take the ball from centr bounces and just stroll into the forward line with space is appalling., that’s when Marshall is rucking... yes, Marshall has improved, but what’s the problem with providing more competition and as a result improving the team/performance as a whole.. the idea that existing players are good enough or have potential (Acres, Dunstan, Billings, Mccartin) so no need to turn the list over is the reason why we are a middle of the rung team..

By the way, I’m not saying trading Marshall, just add more quality in free agent if possible instead of hanging onto dead wood Longer/Pierce for 7 years... For those don’t rate ruckman, it’s the same people who were filthy when we traded Macevoy and Stanley.. both were poor ruckman (now they have improved in their prospective teams).. the fact that we wasted the draft picks doesn’t mean the trade was wrong..

Can assure you Plugger/I'm assuming that's Dunstall, i like Dunny but that's a bridge too far. Carey and Ablett would still kick a sh!t ton of goals
Even with our delivery! Lockett had arguably even worse delivery than today many times and it still did not stop the great man!
Throw in the way forwards are protected by the rules these days, they would all have a field day!
Champions like all those you mentioned would adapt in any era! There is just a lack of quality key forwards these days. Hopefully Winx will change that!

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

all this goldy talk is depressing... we should limit our FA talks to mids. Shane edwards, coniglio, liberatore

 

[Moral Decay]

They will play king so it’s either Marshall or Bruce. Goldy is not a forward so then Marshall gets 5 minutes in the **** a quarter. Crazy stuff and that’s if he plays at all because I’d rather Bruce than Marshall up forward. And what side have 5 genuine falls into 4 positions. If we need another ruck just keep longer. Back up rucks should never be first rucks.

I'd think it's easier if we look at Marshall as a tall utility, we have 6 players rotating through 5 on field positions and 1 resting on the bench, Carlisle, Battle, Goldstein, Bruce, King and Marshall. Carlisle can rotate through FB and CHB, Battle through FB, CHB, CHF and FF, Bruce through, CHF and FF, the same with King, Goldstein through Ruck and FF, Marshall through all 5.

If we don't play all 6 on the ground at the same time that would give each one about 83% of game time, it would also mean that the likes of Wilkie, Webster, Membrey and Acres are never over matched on an opponent that is too tall or heavy for them. It allows us the tactic of going tall and having all 6 on the ground if we feel that would work and lets face it given the amount of times a tall gets injure we get stretched pretty often a spare tall can be a help.

 

[plugger66]

I'd think it's easier if we look at Marshall as a tall utility, we have 6 players rotating through 5 on field positions and 1 resting on the bench, Carlisle, Battle, Goldstein, Bruce, King and Marshall. Carlisle can rotate through FB and CHB, Battle through FB, CHB, CHF and FF, Bruce through, CHF and FF, the same with King, Goldstein through Ruck and FF, Marshall through all 5.

If we don't play all 6 on the ground at the same time that would give each one about 83% of game time, it would also mean that the likes of Wilkie, Webster, Membrey and Acres are never over matched on an opponent that is too tall or heavy for them. It allows us the tactic of going tall and having all 6 on the ground if we feel that would work and lets face it given the amount of times a tall gets injure we get stretched pretty often a spare tall can be a help.

No player plays like that and why are we moving nearly our most promising player just to get a 31 year old in.

 

[Drake Huggins]

Wingman

No matter what he is, Richo will turn him into a half back flanker.

 

[mightymalaka]

No matter what he is, Richo will turn him into a half back flanker.

Talk that the Richo man has young Max King earmarked to debut on a back flank next week!
Thinks he will develop into a fine Back Pocket in time!

 

[Wintle]

Exactly, at any top sides with good mids and decent forward entries like Geelong, West coast, Bruce will kick 40-50 goals a season..

Even plugger/Dunstan/Carey/Ablett will struggle to kick goals in our forward line..
Forwards are not the problem., it’s the midfield division as a whole. that includes Inside/outside mids and the ruck.. we only have one decent ruck in Marshall, instead of getting an unknown quantity by drafting an 18 y/o or a young and inexperienced one from another team, getting Goldstein as a free agent is a no brainer.. We haven’t had a decent ruck since and aging King and Gardiner retired.. I know some on here do not rate ruckman, but the fact that Grundy, Dawn and Goldstein (in his prime) are match winners tells you different story.. If taps doesn’t matter, then Acres should be killing it in the ruck, he is not, and our mids are poor as a result.. the number of times that opposition mids just take the ball from centr bounces and just stroll into the forward line with space is appalling., that’s when Marshall is rucking... yes, Marshall has improved, but what’s the problem with providing more competition and as a result improving the team/performance as a whole.. the idea that existing players are good enough or have potential (Acres, Dunstan, Billings, Mccartin) so no need to turn the list over is the reason why we are a middle of the rung team..

By the way, I’m not saying trading Marshall, just add more quality in free agent if possible instead of hanging onto dead wood Longer/Pierce for 7 years... For those don’t rate ruckman, it’s the same people who were filthy when we traded Macevoy and Stanley.. both were poor ruckman (now they have improved in their prospective teams).. the fact that we wasted the draft picks doesn’t mean the trade was wrong..

Great post and agree entirely. When we had King and Gardiner it was the last time we were able to consistently win in the ruck and it nearly won us a flag in 2009 when we lost to Geelong.
Yes, Marshall has improved out of site this year, but it's a big ask to have him carry our ruck responsibilities virtually on his own, especially considering he is only a young and still developing player.
I would have Goldstein in a blink because with him we would finally start winning in the ruck which is going to assist our midfielders and big time.

 

[stavro#4]

We will kick more goals when we have another tall forward in this current side. If that is king, as long as he provides a contest we will benefit.

Let’s grow a pair and trade out 2020s first rounder. I think we have shown enough that we could lull someone into thinking that’s a top 4 pick


In a few weeks I would start playing kids. Get as many games into them as possible. I want to see calavarino King etc
Get as low as possible. Draft the best mid.
Move Ratten into the hot seat

 

[BrutThough]

We will kick more goals when we have another tall forward in this current side. If that is king, as long as he provides a contest we will benefit.

Let’s grow a pair and trade out 2020s first rounder. I think we have shown enough that we could lull someone into thinking that’s a top 4 pick


In a few weeks I would start playing kids. Get as many games into them as possible. I want to see calavarino King etc
Get as low as possible. Draft the best mid.
Move Ratten into the hot seat

Tanking is the worst thing the club could do.

 

[stavro#4]

Tanking is the worst thing the club could do.

It’s not tanking. It’s just not being good enough. I hate the idea of finishing 12th etc. being in no mans land doesn’t help

 

[Moral Decay]

No player plays like that and why are we moving nearly our most promising player just to get a 31 year old in.

Just out of interest let’s pretend everyone is available and we get goldy. How is the ruck and forward line set up?

You're moving the goalposts plugger.
I'm assuming your basic premise still holds, we get Goldy and how do we make it work.
Firstly coaches have made the same scenario work, Sheedy and Clarkson have both used, players in varying position within games forward, back, on ball and ruck.

Also just because a player is nominally playing a position doesn't mean he is actually doing it. Currently when we have a stoppage in the forward line our nominal CHF or FF Bruce plays as the ruckman and Marshall our nominal ruckman plays a kick behind play, or Acres plays as the ruckman if Bruce is on the pine.

Either way we'd be better off with Goldy rucking in the forward line and Marshall and/or Bruce playing a kick behind, Goldy would be much more likely to hit a small forward and more likely to create physical space for small forwards, the other thing that happens with monotonous regularity with Bruce rucking in the forward line he's the only tall forward, we get possession 40m out on the boundary, snap to the top of the square but where's the marking option in Bruce, he's 25m behind the drop of the ball in the ruck contest.

That kick to the top of the square becomes an intercept mark and the opposition run the ball out of defence going around or over Marshall.

 

[BrutThough]

It’s not tanking. It’s just not being good enough. I hate the idea of finishing 12th etc. being in no mans land doesn’t help

Purposely playing younger players over better players with the purpose of getting our draft pick as low as possible is tanking.

We need to enter every game fielding our best 22 available with the purpose of winning the game. That how players learn winning habits and instil a good culture around the club.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Watching the GC game, Ben King looks so good for a very raw 202 cm 18 year old kid. Launches really well like max and has explosive pace. Both such good movers, even though they're huge they're not like a other players of that size (mckay, wright, ben brown).

a forward line of


Parker, M King, Lonie
Skunk, B King, xxxxx

We'd stretch defences for both height and speed.

either a player (bruce,acres, newnes, whoever wants to live on the gold coast) and a future second for Bing, or just our future first. Take a mid with our first this year.

pull the trigger lethers!
*I edited in a trade proposal after you squibs liked it so now you like my trade idea whether you like it or not

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

If we are trading out anyone it should probably be Bruce.

He's someone who is probably a bit surplus to our needs heading in to the future and might be worth a fair bit to a club in need of a decent tall forward.

 

[VDS66]

We will kick more goals when we have another tall forward in this current side. If that is king, as long as he provides a contest we will benefit.

Let’s grow a pair and trade out 2020s first rounder. I think we have shown enough that we could lull someone into thinking that’s a top 4 pick


In a few weeks I would start playing kids. Get as many games into them as possible. I want to see calavarino King etc
Get as low as possible. Draft the best mid.
Move Ratten into the hot seat

Yeah OK. Let's tank.

Not sure how to respond exactly.

How about we try and make finals and build a winning culture?

 

[bird_man]

Goldstein AND cunnington IN improves our ruck and midfield in rnd 1 next year.

Yes, well spotted- we are not going to become flag favourites by adding 1 single midfielder.
Rome wasn't built in a day.

Adding goldstein and a cunnington/taranto/heeny to our list (at the expense of marshall) gets us FAR closer to playing in, and winning finals next year.

Who knows- maybe we then make finals and maybe even pinch a win in one.
That then makes us a far more attractive destination for an elite mid RFA at the end of next year and we grab them as well?

All of a sudden we've added 2 elite A grade midfielders going into 2021, along with expected improvements in the likes of gresh, billings, clark, coffield etc.


We can't start that snowball effect without aggressively trying to fix that elite midfielder(s) hole in our list ASAP.

That's great for the short term. We might move up the ladder a spot or two... Shocking for us in 2 years time when Goldstein is cooked and we are back to having no ruck man.

 

[VDS66]

If we are trading out anyone it should probably be Bruce.

He's someone who is probably a bit surplus to our needs heading in to the future and might be worth a fair bit to a club in need of a decent tall forward.

Nah keep him because he's our best forward who'll be lucky to kick 30 this year...

 

[VDS66]

That's great for the short term. We might move up the ladder a spot or two... Shocking for us in 2 years time when Goldstein is cooked and we are back to having no ruck man.

Then you Move Marshall back in the middle and King has Two full seasons under his belt.

And Cunnington will still be going.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

One thing I will say with Gibbs - he does come with a lot of baggage.

He moved to Adelaide to get away from the trouble and it became worse over there.

He's not the kind of roll model you want leading your kids..

I don't think a club would be silly enough to invest any time or money into him at this stage.

Just heard some intel about Gibbs &... you know how I said he’d be a nice fit.... yeah we’ll forget I said anything

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bird_man]

Then you Move Marshall back in the middle and King has Two full seasons under his belt.

And Cunnington will still be going.

No he was talking about trading Marshall to get Cunnington