Training 2020 Pre Season Training

[ad victoriam]

Like you said he has played for the last 5 years so we have definetly seen him, he isnt a rookie

He may help, but lets be honest you wouldnt be thinking he is the next big thing, he may or may not fill a gap, will he reach 100 AFL games not that many do, does he offer anything that others cant

He may be aggresive so is Mike Tyson but he will never play footy at the elite level, Frampton has some skill is it enough to make it at the Elite level, Port dont think so, they believe what they have is better going on what they swapped him out for

Time will tell, but no one in their right mind could say he is the missing link

Nobody calling him the missing Link, And Mike Tyson was a Champion at one time.
But he is the type of player the Crows have lacked in the Forward line in recent years,

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Mackay was actually one of our better performers last year.

He was absolutely woeful

And yes he was one of our better performers

 

[Carmo]

Is Macasey really a new player or did we just rebrand Keath? They look pretty similar to me!

 

[DJ75]

There's a Mackay cycle that all our coaches go through:

1. New coach comes into the club
2. No preconceived ideas, all players with a clean slate
3. Super impressed by Mackay's fitness, work ethic and professionalism during preseason
4. Note that Mackay is one of the first players to adapt to and understand new game plan
5. Select Mackay religiously
6. Start coaching reign ok
7. Mackay puts in some decent games in easy wins at home against lowly opposition
8. Team falters at key stages of the season
9. Coach continues to pin hopes on Mackay who continually let's them down when it counts
10. A season or two later the honeymoon period is over, losses mount
11. The coach starts to come under heavy scrutiny due to poor results
12. After continued poor form Mackay finally gets dropped on occasions
13. Pressure continues to mount. In a panic and as a last resort, the coach clings to their senior players even harder.
14. Mackay earns a selection reprieve, often without even playing a SANFL game
15. Coach doesn't realise that it's the senior players who are delivering the poor results
16. Coach fired

Repeat cycle

The accuracy here is incredible. This has been repeated at least 3 times so far.

 

[Scorpus]

Why do people keep bringing up that 5 or 6 coaches have selected Mackay? As if "they must be right and we are all wrong".

Happens time and again. Did you ever think it might just be 5 or 6 unsuccessful and now fired coaches making bad decisions?

Making a bad decision over and over again doesn't suddenly make it a good decision

 

[Vader]

Why do people keep bringing up that 5 or 6 coaches have selected Mackay? As if "they must be right and we are all wrong".

Happens time and again. Did you ever think it might just be 5 or 6 unsuccessful and now fired coaches making bad decisions?

Making a bad decision over and over again doesn't suddenly make it a good decision

You can argue that 1 or 2 may have been mistaken, but when there are 5 in a row (Nicks appears likely to become #6) then you need to start accepting that the coaches are seeing something that you're not. Maybe you need to ask yourself why 5 consecutive coaches all made the same "bad" decision?

 

[Scorpus]

You can argue that 1 or 2 may have been mistaken, but when there are 5 in a row (Nicks appears likely to become #6) then you need to start accepting that the coaches are seeing something that you're not. Maybe you need to ask yourself why 5 consecutive coaches all made the same "bad" decision?

Because they were bad, unsuccessful coaches with flawed thinking?

 

[Vader]

Because they were bad, unsuccessful coaches with flawed thinking?

Garbage. You can argue that 1 or 2 had "flawed thinking", but that argument is just plain stupid when you're talking about 5 or 6 (from a pool of 5 or 6). That's a 100% agreement level between them. That's not "flawed thinking" - it's just "thinking that Scorpus disagrees with".

 

[Mutineer]

Is Macasey really a new player or did we just rebrand Keath? They look pretty similar to me!

Maybe physically but that's about where it ends.

 

[Scorpus]

Garbage. You can argue that 1 or 2 had "flawed thinking", but that argument is just plain stupid when you're talking about 5 or 6 (from a pool of 5 or 6). That's a 100% agreement level between them. That's not "flawed thinking" - it's just "thinking that Scorpus disagrees with".

Is it just me, or is it actually everyone but our coaches?

Actually it even IS our coaches because they don't rate him at the B&F.

He's not rated when it comes to any individual awards. Opposition coaches don't rate him; he rarely gets any coaches votes. The majority of people watching AFL can't understand why he gets games.

The real reason is like what Drugs Are Bad Mackay? laid out. Coaches get sucked in to his training form and make the flawed judgement call that his form off the field will lead to form on the field. Later when it comes down to it they don't rate his actual output.

This is absolutely flawed thinking and a flawed approach that's delivered us no success.

I'm holding out hope that Nicks won't be sucked in and won't succumb to this failed, flawed mindset of every coach we've had since Craig

 

[Coopers]

Maybe physically but that's about where it ends.

I mean they have different names and everything

 

[Vader]

Is it just me, or is it actually everyone but our coaches?

Actually it even IS our coaches because they don't rate him at the B&F.

He's not rated when it comes to any individual awards. Opposition coaches don't rate him; he rarely gets any coaches votes. The majority of people watching AFL can't understand why he gets games.

The real reason is like what Drugs Are Bad Mackay? laid out. Coaches get sucked in to his training form and make the flawed judgement call that his form off the field will lead to form on the field. Later when it comes down to it they don't rate his actual output.

This is absolutely flawed thinking and a flawed approach that's delivered us no success.

I'm holding out hope that Nicks won't be sucked in and won't succumb to this failed, flawed mindset of every coach we've had since Craig

It's mostly BF groupthink.

Mackay isn't a difference maker. Like Brown (who attracts a similar number of votes), Mackay is a role player - and more often than not he plays his role to the satisfaction of the coaching staff. Saying that "he rarely gets any coaches votes" is pure & unadulterated bullshit - it's 100% lies and untruth.

I'm completely ambivalent as to whether or not Mackay plays this year. If he doesn't, then that means that he's (finally) been overtaken by a younger kid, and that the team is stronger for his absence.

Arguing that 5 (likely to become 6) consecutive coaches have made the same mistake, over and over again, because they've all made the same decision that you disagree with, means that the problem is more likely to be with your assessment than that of the coaching staff.

 

[Scorpus]

It's mostly BF groupthink.

Mackay isn't a difference maker. Like Brown (who attracts a similar number of votes), Mackay is a role player - and more often than not he plays his role to the satisfaction of the coaching staff. Saying that "he rarely gets any coaches votes" is pure & unadulterated bullshit - it's 100% lies and untruth.

I'm completely ambivalent as to whether or not Mackay plays this year. If he doesn't, then that means that he's (finally) been overtaken by a younger kid, and that the team is stronger for his absence.

Arguing that 5 (likely to become 6) consecutive coaches have made the same mistake, over and over again, because they've all made the same decision that you disagree with, means that the problem is more likely to be with your assessment than that of the coaching staff.

Okay well let me ask you a question.

What objective metric can you provide that tells us Mackay's selection is a justified, sensible, good decision?

Other than "the coaches are right".

 

[Vader]

Okay well let me ask you a question.

What objective metric can you provide that tells us Mackay's selection is a justified, sensible, good decision?

Other than "the coaches are right".

What objective metric can you provide that tells us it's not, other than "the coaches are wrong"?

I can buy 1 or 2 coaches being wrong. However, when 5 or 6 consecutive coaches make the same decision, with not a single dissenter among them, then you need to start thinking that maybe there's a reason for his ongoing selection.

 

[Scorpus]

What objective metric can you provide that tells us it's not, other than "the coaches are wrong"?

Well that's easy.

Selecting Mackay has not lead to team success
Selecting Mackay has not lead to accolades for him as a player in the wider AFL community, whether that be through Brownlow votes or other similar awards

So when presented with these facts, there must be some counterpoint to suggest that actually, his selection is justified. If he isn't part of a successful team, and he isn't gaining recognition as an individual for his performances, something else must be a factor.

So what is it? And is that factor significant enough to say the coaches made the right decision?

 

[Betts are off]

Maybe physically but that's about where it ends.

I wouldn't be that upset if he turned into another peak Alex Keath. If he surpasses it then that's even better!

 

[Vader]

Well that's easy.

Selecting Mackay has not lead to team success
Selecting Mackay has not lead to accolades for him as a player in the wider AFL community, whether that be through Brownlow votes or other similar awards

So when presented with these facts, there must be some counterpoint to suggest that actually, his selection is justified. If he isn't part of a successful team, and he isn't gaining recognition as an individual for his performances, something else must be a factor.

So what is it? And is that factor significant enough to say the coaches made the right decision?

You can say the same for almost any Crows player over the last 20 years.

Selecting Rory Sloane has not led to team success. Selecting Dangerfield & Walker has not led to team success.

Selecting Tyson Edwards (for 300+ games) did not result in accolates for him as a player in the wider AFL community, through Brownlow votes or other similar awards (though he was part of 2 premiership teams).

Your arguments are becoming even more fascile and unintelligent, but by all means keep digging that hole - one day you'll dig all the way through to China.

Mackay's selection is not a reason for our lack of on-field success over the last 22 years.

 

[marty36]

Nobody calling him the missing Link, And Mike Tyson was a Champion at one time.
But he is the type of player the Crows have lacked in the Forward line in recent years,

Mike Tyson was a champion boxer

The crows have had aggression in Tex, who would you say is West Coasts agressor or Ricmonds. Agression by frampton maybe great but if his ability lacks then it wont help. What Ive seen is his ability, it is not up there yet as we have seen with our own eyes , will it ever be who knows maybe he can develop maybe he cant

 

[Scorpus]

You can say the same for almost any Crows player over the last 20 years.

Selecting Rory Sloane has not led to team success. Selecting Dangerfield & Walker has not led to team success.

Selecting Tyson Edwards (for 300+ games) did not result in accolates for him as a player in the wider AFL community, through Brownlow votes or other similar awards (though he was part of 2 premiership teams).

Your arguments are becoming even more fascile and unintelligent, but by all means keep digging that hole - one day you'll dig all the way through to China.

Mackay's selection is not a reason for our lack of on-field success over the last 22 years.

What are you on about?

There are two reasons that justify being selected.

1) The team has proven to be successful with the player in it

2) But there are lots of reasons why a team may not be successful. So failing that, their selection can be justified by being a good player (eg. it was the result of other factors/players that hasn't led to team success) and we judge good players on awards.

All the players you've listed fit either category. Dangerfield is a Brownlow medalist, Sloane an All Australian. Taylor Walker has been adjudged best captain in the league twice and has 45 Brownlow votes. Tyson Edwards is a 2x premiership player, proving his inclusion in the team was warranted.

Mackay hasn't been a proven successful component of an AFL team. And he also hasn't proven to be a good player.

So again, why is he being selected? What is the justification that the coaches are making good decisions? You haven't been able to provide anything so far

 

[kulak]

I wouldn't be that upset if he turned into another peak Alex Keath. If he surpasses it then that's even better!

I would demand the sacking of JR and Hamish for turning pick 4 into a player about as good as Alex Keath.

The only possible excuse for an outcome that bad will be if Stephens, Ash, and everyone selected after pick 6 proves to be as useless as James Aish.

He needs to be as good as Phil Davis, Daniel Talia or better to justify having pick 4 and choosing to select a tall defender.

 

[Mutineer]

I wouldn't be that upset if he turned into another peak Alex Keath. If he surpasses it then that's even better!

I would...We think we've drafted a genuine contested KPD with the ability to also intercept in the air whereas Keath's forte is more playing the intercepting role than defending one on one.

 

[skam85]

Why do people keep bringing up that 5 or 6 coaches have selected Mackay? As if "they must be right and we are all wrong".

Happens time and again. Did you ever think it might just be 5 or 6 unsuccessful and now fired coaches making bad decisions?

Making a bad decision over and over again doesn't suddenly make it a good decision

Yep.

5 or 6 coaches, 0 flags.

 

[Betts are off]

I would...We think we've drafted a genuine contested KPD with the ability to also intercept in the air whereas Keath's forte is more playing the intercepting role than defending one on one.

All i'm saying is if Alex Keath is his floor, then that's a pretty decent floor!

 

[Mutineer]

I would demand the sacking of JR and Hamish for turning pick 4 into a player about as good as Alex Keath.

The only possible excuse for an outcome that bad will be if Stephens, Ash, and everyone selected after pick 6 proves to be as useless as James Aish.

He needs to be as good as Phil Davis, Daniel Talia or better to justify having pick 4 and choosing to select a tall defender.

Hamish seems to think McAsey has the ability to play Key Position at both ends so perhaps he could be classed as a KPP more than just a KPD?

 

[skam85]

I wouldn't be that upset if he turned into another peak Alex Keath. If he surpasses it then that's even better!

Yep. Keath but 10yrs longer to develop sounds great to me