Training 2020 Pre Season Training

[kulak]

I'd be aiming higher personally. Alex Rance/Jeremy McGovern is really the point where such a pick looks good. seeing pick 4 is potentially a star midfielder, or key forward (though, not as much in this draft). You can begrudgingly live with a Daniel Talia with that price though.

Yes my point exactly. Another Talia is a pass but not a high distinction.

 

[kulak]

Stephens was picked before McAsey.

As I am sure you remember, we had pick 4 and chose to trade down to pick 6 to get another first in 2020.

Did we do that because we valued McAsey equally? The consensus on this forum.

Or perhaps you prefer the conspiracy that we banked on Stephens making it through and it was a stuff up.

Either way it’s a choice we made.

 

[Mutineer]

As I am sure you remember, we had pick 4 and chose to trade down to pick 6 to get another first in 2020.

Did we do that because we valued McAsey equally? The consensus on this forum.

Or perhaps you prefer the conspiracy that we banked on Stephens making it through and it was a stuff up.

Either way it’s a choice we made.

So what we do with next year's 1st is also a very big factor in the "trade down" not just McAsey is it not?

I think Worrell might actually be a very big steal for us, so much raw potential.....if he buys into Adelaide's lifestyle etc and stays with us.

 

[kulak]

So what we do with next year's 1st is also a very big factor in the "trade down" not just McAsey is it not?

I think Worrell might actually be a very big steal for us, so much raw potential.....if he buys into Adelaide's lifestyle etc and stays with us.

Yes. We had pick 4. We could have used it on a classy quick skilful midfielder. Instead we chose spend it on a key defender and a pick around 15-18.

I think that means he will want to be a heck of a key defender! Hopefully he will be, the early signs are promising.

There will definitely be a lot of knives out on this forum if Stephens looks like being that star classy midfielder we haven’t had in forever OR if McAsey is anything less than a top 5 key defender in the league.

 

[Jack is Back]

Pre-season injury update

The latest on Adelaide's injury list ahead of Saturday's Marsh series match

www.afc.com.au

So Ned didn’t play last week, which means he wasn’t relegated to the seconds

Well that’s good news!

As I indicated in my report, I was able to clearly identify the 21 players who were in Crows colours in the second half but the Yellow Team was hard to pick because they rarely had the ball. I wrote down the following numbers from the Yellow Team; 7, 8, 17, 20, 24, 25, 26, 28, 31, 33, 37, 41, 39, 41, 44 and 45.
Since Brodie Smith was on the Crows team the Yellow 33 was a top up. Similar with 39 who had bleached blond hair and an arm sleeve so I was pretty sure he wasn’t The Dude. Number 25 was a short quick guy who did some nice things so it could have been Matthews.

I have also been informed some players had a half for the Crows and a half for the Yellows (e.g. Jordan Butts) so selection may not be as obvious as some (including me)have assumed.

It was also pretty cute to get our first decent injury report in the pre-season about 48 hours before everything will have to be revealed. Just a four week achilles injury, nothing to see here folks.... Was it the Return of the Sled???

 

[GreyCrow]

Mackay was actually one of our better performers last year.

Define better?

Averaged 17.5 disposals and went past 20 in only 1 game

Atkins for all the shit he cops averaged 21.5 and went past 20 in 12 games

 

[GROTTO]

Averaged 17.5 disposals and went past 20 in only 1 game

Yes but what about the run and carry aspect.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I’m surprised if Kelly isn’t in our best side , at least he’s honest week in week out and pretty trustworthy in a shut down role

 

[AFC979810]

What are you on about?

There are two reasons that justify being selected.

1) The team has proven to be successful with the player in it

2) But there are lots of reasons why a team may not be successful. So failing that, their selection can be justified by being a good player (eg. it was the result of other factors/players that hasn't led to team success) and we judge good players on awards.

All the players you've listed fit either category. Dangerfield is a Brownlow medalist, Sloane an All Australian. Taylor Walker has been adjudged best captain in the league twice and has 45 Brownlow votes. Tyson Edwards is a 2x premiership player, proving his inclusion in the team was warranted.

Mackay hasn't been a proven successful component of an AFL team. And he also hasn't proven to be a good player.

So again, why is he being selected? What is the justification that the coaches are making good decisions? You haven't been able to provide anything so far

So if we didn't shit the bed against Richmond in the 2017 Grand Final - would that change your opinion on Mackay?

And lets be real here he has played 12 years in the league - made finals in 6 of those years. Been a part of 1 grand final team and 1 prelim team that lost by less than a kick.

But once again - its just silly logic that Craig, Bickley, Sanderson, Walsh, Campo and Don Pyke all made the wrong decision in selecting Mackay because they didn't win a premiership and got fired (apart from Walsh).

Can't wait to see him in that round 1 team.

 

[Elite Crow]

So if we didn't shit the bed against Richmond in the 2017 Grand Final - would that change your opinion on Mackay?

And lets be real here he has played 12 years in the league - made finals in 6 of those years. Been a part of 1 grand final team and 1 prelim team that lost by less than a kick.

But once again - its just silly logic that Craig, Bickley, Sanderson, Walsh, Campo and Don Pyke all made the wrong decision in selecting Mackay because they didn't win a premiership and got fired (apart from Walsh).

Can't wait to see him in that round 1 team.

But you like old mediocre players and have no eye on development. We’ve already seen your best 22 and it was a shocker

 

[marty36]

Doubt you have watched him much to be honest Because you fail to mention or had no knowledge that he spent the first 4 years playing as a Ruckman in the Port setup only went to Full Forward Last year. and as a Full Forward, he was close to being one of the best if not the best in the SANFL.

Yep he did play well in the SANFL, but tell me what the guys below have in common in the SANFL it has something to do with Ken Farmer, and cant see anyone capable of making it at AFL level

2011	Michael Wundke
2012	Justin Hardy
2013	Michael Wundke
2014	Michael Wundke
2015	Clint Alleway
2016	Brett Eddy
2017	Brett Eddy
2018 2019	Mark Evans Liam McBean

 

[Thetrader15]

Define better?

Averaged 17.5 disposals and went past 20 in only 1 game

Atkins for all the shit he cops averaged 21.5 and went past 20 in 12 games

You don't just look at stats...

 

[marty36]

So if we didn't shit the bed against Richmond in the 2017 Grand Final - would that change your opinion on Mackay?

And lets be real here he has played 12 years in the league - made finals in 6 of those years. Been a part of 1 grand final team and 1 prelim team that lost by less than a kick.

But once again - its just silly logic that Craig, Bickley, Sanderson, Walsh, Campo and Don Pyke all made the wrong decision in selecting Mackay because they didn't win a premiership and got fired (apart from Walsh).

Can't wait to see him in that round 1 team.

That is quite hilarious

"But once again - its just silly logic that Craig, Bickley, Sanderson, Walsh, Campo and Don Pyke all made the wrong decision in selecting Mackay because they didn't win a premiership and got fired (apart from Walsh)."

Are you sure Pyke didnt win the flag because he picked Tex or maybe Betts in that 2017 GF team

 

[Thetrader15]

I’m surprised if Kelly isn’t in our best side , at least he’s honest week in week out and pretty trustworthy in a shut down role

As long as henis used in a shut down role, and not the go to out if defense.

However, we can't just play Brown, Talia, Hartigan/McAsey already down back and expected the ball movement to be different from last year

 

[Golumless]

Hodge, Carey - were captains of Vic clubs so got away with a lot more than Tex ever will be able to. Especially when he is as honest as the day is long, and wears his heart on his sleeve as a passionate Crows man.

I'd actually prefer it's not just one guy who is responsible for it, and if there is a tagger, whenever possible, any / all of our team will run into them, or push off the guy on the ground when they are trying to get up, etc

However, all this comes second to being really disciplined, skillful and compliant with team rules (or is that fourth?)

For Hodges sake I don't thinks it's as much a Victorian bias, more he was a bit sneakier for the most part (ignoring when he tried to decapitate Wingard on a point post). Tex well his aggression was either too overt or would be seen as the guy who beat up on weaker opponents but not better.

Carey yes, but that's a different time. Even then North is the definition of a have not club so there would be less bias.

 

[Scorpus]

So if we didn't shit the bed against Richmond in the 2017 Grand Final - would that change your opinion on Mackay?

And lets be real here he has played 12 years in the league - made finals in 6 of those years. Been a part of 1 grand final team and 1 prelim team that lost by less than a kick.

But once again - its just silly logic that Craig, Bickley, Sanderson, Walsh, Campo and Don Pyke all made the wrong decision in selecting Mackay because they didn't win a premiership and got fired (apart from Walsh).

Can't wait to see him in that round 1 team.

If Mackay was a premiership player I'd have to concede that his selection was justified.

But he isn't.

 

[Betts are off]

Can someone tell me how Sholl is tracking? From the photo's earlier on in the offseason I looked like he had put on a fair bit of muscle through the top half of his body.

 

[kulak]

Can someone tell me how Sholl is tracking? From the photo's earlier on in the offseason I looked like he had put on a fair bit of muscle through the top half of his body.

It would appear we are going to prioritise playing the established guys - Laird Brown Gibbs Mackay.

My guess is that Sholl and Hamill will need to dominate the SANFL before we consider either of them.

 

[Thetrader15]

It would appear we are going to prioritise playing the established guys - Laird Brown Gibbs Mackay.

My guess is that Sholl and Hamill will need to dominate the SANFL before we consider either of them.

Godden or Mattner insinuated on 5AA they are likely to start in the SANFL and aren't in the running for a spot come rd 1.

I was hoping Sholl would be a sneaky chance, but it doesn't sound like it

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Without doubt I think our biggest effort this year will be getting players to buy into the team first mantra, and the idea of running without reward. A study was done on soccer players and it was found that each player had only 60-90 seconds of actual possession for the entire 90 minute game. Barcelona run training drills of 'overload' where there's an almost higher emphasis on team/player movement without the ball, particularly when not in possession. You watch the better teams of the last few years and their emphasis on team pressure and work-rate is of the highest priority.

 

[Donkey Magoo]

So if we didn't shit the bed against Richmond in the 2017 Grand Final - would that change your opinion on Mackay?

And lets be real here he has played 12 years in the league - made finals in 6 of those years. Been a part of 1 grand final team and 1 prelim team that lost by less than a kick.

But once again - its just silly logic that Craig, Bickley, Sanderson, Walsh, Campo and Don Pyke all made the wrong decision in selecting Mackay because they didn't win a premiership and got fired (apart from Walsh).

Can't wait to see him in that round 1 team.

Look Dmack has been a great servant of the club, he gets the absolute most out of his talent and body that he has.

But if he plays Rd 1 there are problems.

A: We've broken that GF side up, the mix got close, probably should have done it, but couldn't replicate it. We're building the next push.
B: That next push has a lot of new raw talent behind it, they will be inconsistent, we need to ride it through to a point.
C: 2020 Development is more important than WvL

If DMac is playing Rd1 2020 it means
A: Coaches are looking for Wins over dev
B: They don't want to play young players
C: No substantive changes to our gameday operations.

Dmac has been a great servant, but he should be depth, great to have around the club as he is an ultimate champion of a bloke.

 

[DJ75]

Knight being injured again is a cruel blow for someone looking to save their career though. No competitive loading for a month puts him all the way back to a mid-year prospect probably.

I think he's done. As some will know, I've been on the Knight wagon from the very start, having known him well through his High School years.
Unfortunately, he's not the same guy I knew. Back then he was a super driven and determined young man, who was hell bent on making it to the highest level. He was a really humble but determined guy.

Now I see him and he has changed. He is full of ego and superiority. He acts like a boof head footballer who thinks he is better than everyone else and that he has 'made it' (too much time with guys like Atkins I fear). Sadly for him, his belief in his position in the game is well above what it actually is. He's become one of the guys who thinks he is entitled to a position in the AFL team, rather than seeing he still has to earn it.

This injury will set him well back and it's going to be incredibly tough for him to get back in, especially once one or two guys grab their opportunity.

I fear that Riley is heading for a very large reality check come the end of the year.

 

[AFC979810]

If Mackay was a premiership player I'd have to concede that his selection was justified.

But he isn't.

Question - Is Ross Lyon a good football coach?

If premiership success is the only validation that a players selection was justified - I feel sorry for Nathan Buckley, Gary Ablett and Robert Harvey.

 

[Scorpus]

Question - Is Ross Lyon a good football coach?

If premiership success is the only validation that a players selection was justified - I feel sorry for Nathan Buckley, Gary Ablett and Robert Harvey.

Ross Lyon? I've previously said I don't think he's a good coach because he has failed to deliver a flag from multiple chances and years in the system

As for players, I said in this thread there were two justifications:

1) Part of a premiership team
2) Proven quality via external rankings eg. Brownlow, AFLCA and other awards

I'd also have a third justification which is they're young/developing which doesn't apply to Mackay

So either the player is proven to deliver success, or is good enough to deliver success in a quality environment (but is unlucky due to various factors), or their quality has yet to be established at AFL level

 

[Scorpus]

Look Dmack has been a great servant of the club, he gets the absolute most out of his talent and body that he has.

But if he plays Rd 1 there are problems.

A: We've broken that GF side up, the mix got close, probably should have done it, but couldn't replicate it. We're building the next push.
B: That next push has a lot of new raw talent behind it, they will be inconsistent, we need to ride it through to a point.
C: 2020 Development is more important than WvL

If DMac is playing Rd1 2020 it means
A: Coaches are looking for Wins over dev
B: They don't want to play young players
C: No substantive changes to our gameday operations.

Dmac has been a great servant, but he should be depth, great to have around the club as he is an ultimate champion of a bloke.

There is no doubt Mackay is an excellent role model at training and is great to have around the club