List Mgmt. 2020 Trade and List Management Thread II

[The Anvil]

How to dampen the mood!

Scooby had said a swap of picks so the pick upgrade was probably not on the agenda.

It will probably be a swap of picks and upgrades over this year and next that probably rates BBB around pick 20?

You’d hope that the club and Brown could reconcile and he plays for the Roos if appropriate value can’t be gained.


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[New_Roo]

You’d hope that the club and Brown could reconcile and he plays for the Roos if appropriate value can’t be gained.


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If no one offers brown close to what he rejected at north which is quite possible.... then they may reconcile either way it will be less than what was in the table back in feb/mar


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[Tas]

Moving from 9 to 6 in this years draft would be ideal considering Essendon are possibly getting a Band 1 compo for Daniher and GWS are likely getting a Band 1 compo for Williams.

Couple that with the NGA academy bids that will come for JUH and Braeden Campbell and our pick 9 gets pushed out to the 11-13 range whereas Pick 6 pretty much stays where it is.

I’d love to pick up a duo of Hollands and Thilthorpe or McDonald and Phillips with Pick 2 and Pick 6 but that just wouldn’t happen with Pick 9.

We are talking about available talent, it doesn't really matter if you push picks around for JUH or Campbell because those clubs are going to pay for them with garbage picks regardless.

Just taking Twomey's top 20 as he has been relatively accurate in recent drafts, for top 10, gets harder beyond that:
1: JUH (Bulldogs Academy)
2: McDonald (Crows#1)
3: Hollands (North#2)
4: Thilthorpe (Sydney#3)
5: Grainger-Barras (Hawthorn#4)
6: Bruhn (Gold Coast#5)
7: Henry (Essendon#6)
8: Campbell (Swans Academy)
9: Phillips (Carlton#7)
10: Reid (Crows#8)
11: Jones (Port Adelaide Academy)
12: Macrae (North #9)
13: Davies (Gold Coast Academy)
14: Perkins (Fremantle#10)
15: Gulden (Geelong#11)
16: McInned (Collingwood Academy)
17: Chapman (Collingwood#12)
18: Carroll (Bulldogs #13)
19: O'Driscoll (St Kilda #14)
20: Jeffrey (Gold Coast Academy)

So your argument is that we can push 9 to 6 and be pretty optimistic about getting Phillips at 6, which by the look of Twomey's list is doable, but 21 is way off the charts in terms of the top end of the talent and is more in the pure speculation/lower probability territory.

So the argument is Hollands + Phillips + longshot a better strategy than say Hollands + Macrae + O'Driscoll if we can get a decent first round pick for Brown.

Plan B sounds more appealing to me, on face value.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Sadly I don't think they're that mad.

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but what if they go out first week of the finals, will that make them just mad enough?

 

[Rooboy 96]

We are talking about available talent, it doesn't really matter if you push picks around for JUH or Campbell because those clubs are going to pay for them with garbage picks regardless.

Just taking Twomey's top 20 as he has been relatively accurate in recent drafts, for top 10, gets harder beyond that:
1: JUH (Bulldogs Academy)
2: McDonald (Crows#1)
3: Hollands (North#2)
4: Thilthorpe (Sydney#3)
5: Grainger-Barras (Hawthorn#4)
6: Bruhn (Gold Coast#5)
7: Henry (Essendon#6)
8: Campbell (Swans Academy)
9: Phillips (Carlton#7)
10: Reid (Crows#8)
11: Jones (Port Adelaide Academy)
12: Macrae (North #9)
13: Davies (Gold Coast Academy)
14: Perkins (Fremantle#10)
15: Gulden (Geelong#11)
16: McInned (Collingwood Academy)
17: Chapman (Collingwood#12)
18: Carroll (Bulldogs #13)
19: O'Driscoll (St Kilda #14)
20: Jeffrey (Gold Coast Academy)

So your argument is that we can push 9 to 6 and be pretty optimistic about getting Phillips at 6, which by the look of Twomey's list is doable, but 21 is way off the charts in terms of the top end of the talent and is more in the pure speculation/lower probability territory.

So the argument is Hollands + Phillips + longshot a better strategy than say Hollands + Macrae + O'Driscoll if we can get a decent first round pick for Brown.

Plan B sounds more appealing to me, on face value.

pretty sure

15: Gulden (Geelong#11)

is going to the Swans too

 

[Tas]

pretty sure

15: Gulden (Geelong#11)

is going to the Swans too

True, i missed his Academy status.

I am not sure if spending a fair bit of currency to get Phillips instead of Macrae is a sound strategy. I do like Phillips, would love to see him at the club but there are some very good prospects in the first 20 odd players.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

We are talking about available talent, it doesn't really matter if you push picks around for JUH or Campbell because those clubs are going to pay for them with garbage picks regardless.

Just taking Twomey's top 20 as he has been relatively accurate in recent drafts, for top 10, gets harder beyond that:
1: JUH (Bulldogs Academy)
2: McDonald (Crows#1)
3: Hollands (North#2)
4: Thilthorpe (Sydney#3)
5: Grainger-Barras (Hawthorn#4)
6: Bruhn (Gold Coast#5)
7: Henry (Essendon#6)
8: Campbell (Swans Academy)
9: Phillips (Carlton#7)
10: Reid (Crows#8)
11: Jones (Port Adelaide Academy)
12: Macrae (North #9)
13: Davies (Gold Coast Academy)
14: Perkins (Fremantle#10)
15: Gulden (Geelong#11)
16: McInned (Collingwood Academy)
17: Chapman (Collingwood#12)
18: Carroll (Bulldogs #13)
19: O'Driscoll (St Kilda #14)
20: Jeffrey (Gold Coast Academy)

So your argument is that we can push 9 to 6 and be pretty optimistic about getting Phillips at 6, which by the look of Twomey's list is doable, but 21 is way off the charts in terms of the top end of the talent and is more in the pure speculation/lower probability territory.

So the argument is Hollands + Phillips + longshot a better strategy than say Hollands + Macrae + O'Driscoll if we can get a decent first round pick for Brown.

Plan B sounds more appealing to me, on face value.

But if we have pick 6 we call out Campbell with more confidence and either end up with Campbell and Henry or Hollands and Henry using that same draft order?

 

[DuckYeah]

Brown for 21 and a pick upgrade? Hmmm... I don't like it.

Then there is something cooking then.. if thats what we are happy to accept. Firstly theres more to the story than we know and secondly Gonzo is cooking up a feast.. or thirdly, we are stupid

 

[DuckYeah]

You’d hope that the club and Brown could reconcile and he plays for the Roos if appropriate value can’t be gained.


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Nah, him, his salads and his radical feminist misso can move on.. im done with it.. clubs bigger than a couple

 

[DuckYeah]

True, i missed his Academy status.

I am not sure if spending a fair bit of currency to get Phillips instead of Macrae is a sound strategy. I do like Phillips, would love to see him at the club but there are some very good prospects in the first 20 odd players.

I’d take Jack Mcrea.. why not his brother? Decent player

 

[Tas]

But if we have pick 6 we call out Campbell with more confidence and either end up with Campbell and Henry or Hollands and Henry using that same draft order?

If we bid on Campbell with 6 and Swans matched it he would go up to 6, we would then have the option of taking Bruhn, Henry or Phillips at 7.

 

[New_Roo]

Bid on Campbell at two.... allow the swans only one top five picks


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[Tas]

Bid on Campbell at two.... allow the swans only one top five picks


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Would you be happy to end up with him at #2 and not either Hollands or McDonald?

 

[Phillyroo]

I’d take Jack Mcrea.. why not his brother? Decent player

Meh..: he is ok.

I watched him play 7 games for his school... look I think he will be fine, but I feel like from our Dees pick i’d like to get something a little more exciting. Cox for example.

hell I think Ford is going to be a better AFL footballer than McRae.
In fact if his bro wasn’t a league footballer I’m not sure he would be ranked in the top 30.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

If we bid on Campbell with 6 and Swans matched it he would go up to 6, we would then have the option of taking Bruhn, Henry or Phillips at 7.

I was more thinking we bid with 3. Or can they still match it with a bunch of rubbish and keep pick 4 if we do that?

 

[New_Roo]

Would you be happy to end up with him at #2 and not either Hollands or McDonald?

From what I have seen I'd take him over Hollands.... esp with the acl risk but if lmac is avail I'm not too sure... but I reckon ade take lmac


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[Samsquanch]

Bid on Campbell at two.... allow the swans only one top five picks


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They will have done some dirty swans draft dodging cheat with Simmo like they did in the past before draft starts so that their first rounder is something like 63, then they miraculously trade back into the top ten just when the time comes for their bid. Make no mistake, they are a dodgy 19 on the field team.

 

[DuckYeah]

Meh..: he is ok.

I watched him play 7 games for his school... look I think he will be fine, but I feel like from our Dees pick i’d like to get something a little more exciting. Cox for example.

hell I think Ford is going to be a better AFL footballer than McRae.
In fact if his bro wasn’t a league footballer I’m not sure he would be ranked in the top 30.

Could you see his ceiling at school level? I mean, its been 12 months also? I dont think its the same as boomer and shane (shane did not give a **** about standards), or the atleys, or the Stevens, or the other Brothers. I see a dedicated and committed couple of lads, he has insight into his brothers career and what it takes. I wouldnt be surprised if the younger brother is as good

 

[Tas]

Then there is something cooking then.. if thats what we are happy to accept. Firstly theres more to the story than we know and secondly Gonzo is cooking up a feast.. or thirdly, we are stupid

If we look at the trading last year it was definitely looking for value type of trading rather than looking to upgrade what we had to a specific spot in the draft. We traded out our first pick for value and ended up moving stuff around until we had 3 second round picks last year.

I'm not convinced that has been suggested is something we would do. When you make the type of changes we do, you want quality but you also want quantity as well. You don't really want to make 15 list changes including a whole bunch of best 22 and go into the draft with 2-3 good picks.

That being said, when you look at the top 20, a fair few are academy players, a few expecting to go high, this should eat a fairly large chunk of second and third round picks, a fair few clubs will be looking for something to pay their players with. I think if we can get some value if we end up with say a decent second round pick for Higgins and Polec then a lot of the picks between those and the first round will get consumed as part of the bid matching payments and elevate our picks to be more valuable than they otherwise would have been.

I think if we can get 3 good picks with our first two and Brown trade and end up with our remaining second and third round picks plus Higgins and Polec trades then that gives us a pool of around 7 or so picks that. Once you factor list size reductions, elevating Zurhaar, etc it means we can expect to not fill the list with bargain basement kids that we will end up getting rid of in a couple of years.

Most of the cubs that are likely interested in Brown are still playing finals, I wouldn't expect to see more desperate bids until after they bomb out of the finals.

 

[giantroo]

Moore and Scotland gone

 

[Samsquanch]

Moore and Scotland gone?

D'Arcy Moore?

 

[giantroo]

D'Arcy Moore?

Coaches. Bulldog Moore and Heath Scotland have been removed.



North Melbourne have made more changes to their coaching panel in the wake of their disappointing 2020 with assistant coaches Heath Scotland and Jarred Moore parting ways with the Kangaroos.

Scotland joined the club at the start of this season as a development coach but has gone after just one year while Moore has been at the club since 2015 and was responsible for stoppages and the midfield this season.

Scotland and Moore were both former teammates of Shaw however Moore was already at the club when he arrived while Scotland was appointed at the start of last season.

The Kangaroos have undertaken a massive overhaul of the football department with Jade Rawlings - the brother of football boss Brady Rawlings - sacked with two years of a three-year contract remaining.

Line coaches Brendan Whitecross and Jared Rivers were stood down at the start of the COVID-19 shutdown as was respected VFL coach David Loader.

The club is looking to create a coaching panel to assist Rhyce Shaw who had a baptism of fire in his first season as full-time coach and delisted 11 players last week with the prospect of a director of coaching.

The club has also made public their desire to trade out key forward Ben Brown who is out of contract and told midfielder Shaun Higgins they were open to trading him if he can find a deal beyond 2021 with the veteran contracted until the end of next season.

 

[Tas]

From what I have seen I'd take him over Hollands.... esp with the acl risk but if lmac is avail I'm not too sure... but I reckon ade take lmac


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ACL is definitely a risk factor. I doubt anyone is going to be something remotely that high for Campbell, you need to factor the league he is playing in, it would be like you playing in the little league at half-time, you would look like Wayne Carey. Most of the highlights I have seen of him there isn't anyone within a mile of him. It is hard to tell how that translates at AFL level.

 

[RobZombie]

Could you see his ceiling at school level? I mean, its been 12 months also? I dont think its the same as boomer and shane (shane did not give a fu** about standards), or the atleys, or the Stevens, or the other Brothers. I see a dedicated and committed couple of lads, he has insight into his brothers career and what it takes. I wouldnt be surprised if the younger brother is as good

Without speaking for Philly, I’ve watched Macrae with him and I think we share the view that he has really nice skills on both sides but would want to win more of his own pill and have more obvious X factor at school level. Of course, an underage kid coming up against stacked Haileybury and Carey sides is up against it, but he just didn’t scream top 10 to me. I think he’s likely to be a much better AFL footballer than the various other shitter brothers you’ve listed there.

People who have seen him at the chargers and are more plugged in to that scene might have a different view, but his CP rate there didn’t look all that great from the stats I could find.

By comparison, Josh Sinn who will be in next year’s draft looked outstanding in the 1sts as a year 11.

 

[DuckYeah]

If we look at the trading last year it was definitely looking for value type of trading rather than looking to upgrade what we had to a specific spot in the draft. We traded out our first pick for value and ended up moving stuff around until we had 3 second round picks last year.

I'm not convinced that has been suggested is something we would do. When you make the type of changes we do, you want quality but you also want quantity as well. You don't really want to make 15 list changes including a whole bunch of best 22 and go into the draft with 2-3 good picks.

That being said, when you look at the top 20, a fair few are academy players, a few expecting to go high, this should eat a fairly large chunk of second and third round picks, a fair few clubs will be looking for something to pay their players with. I think if we can get some value if we end up with say a decent second round pick for Higgins and Polec then a lot of the picks between those and the first round will get consumed as part of the bid matching payments and elevate our picks to be more valuable than they otherwise would have been.

I think if we can get 3 good picks with our first two and Brown trade and end up with our remaining second and third round picks plus Higgins and Polec trades then that gives us a pool of around 7 or so picks that. Once you factor list size reductions, elevating Zurhaar, etc it means we can expect to not fill the list with bargain basement kids that we will end up getting rid of in a couple of years.

Most of the cubs that are likely interested in Brown are still playing finals, I wouldn't expect to see more desperate bids until after they bomb out of the finals.

Yes, but until Cameron signs its all open slather. Im liking what’s happening, I was very critical early, im coming round to this.. still wouldnt trade higgins tho