List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part II

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austinnn said:
Crouch on left, Dunstan on right. The thing that surprised me is the number of games, not shown here. Crouch 95 Dunstan 104. He's played a year longer, but I'd assumed he's been around a lot longer than Luke, he's definitely got a higher profile, and I don't really know why.

Never noticed Crouch in any Saints games I've watched, never seen him so only going on impressions on the board about how good he is and those impressions are inconclusive.

The article below from the AFL site says he "will accept" a 5 year deal, which is gracious of him but seems very long to me. Seems like we'll be paying him well too, around $700G pa.

I'm conflicted; one one hand I feel that the list management team have earnt my trust and they have it. On the other hand this seems on the face of it like not such a great deal for us, unless he absolutely doubles the impact of our midfield.

We need to get games into Bytel, Byrnes and hopefully Caldwell. I'm worried Jye will see this news and feel he won't get many games for us, and back out of coming.

www.afl.com.au

Make a Saint of me: Crows' banned ball-magnet wants out

Brad Crouch nominates St Kilda as his club of choice for next season
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
View attachment 991006
Click to expand...

Stats comparison looks pretty one way traffic to me ...
 
Strahany said:
This Crouch news is an interesting point on taking a step back and not looking at any trade (or failed trade) in isolation.

At the end of 2018, we offered our 2019 1st round pick in a live trade for GWS’ pick that took Caldwell. That was declined.

Towards the end of 2019, we were keen to offer our 1st pick for Crouch, but caulked at the price.

Now, we could potentially get Crouch for free, Caldwell for a “1st round pick” in the 20s, and still walk away with all of Ryder, Hill, and Howard from the pick that would’ve got only 1 of Crouch or Caldwell.

It’s easy to look at the negatives of drafting a McCartin at pick 1, but then there’s the raft of positives such as getting Marshall in that rookie draft, dodging the bullet of Shiel (which would’ve cost King’s pick + more) and then, of course, these recent developments.
Click to expand...
Also if we took Bont/Petracca we don't end up with Steele/Coffield/Clarke or probably King. I don't think we trade for another mid if those guys are in the team so no Steele and I don't think we bottom out for Coff, King and Clarke.
 

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G'day sainters. :thumbsu:

I reckon Crouch is a good get at the right price, as I reckon Jones & Hanneberry in the guts were probably the difference in your match against the tiges (along with the umpiring).

However, surely they're not paying him upward of $700K p.a.?
 
Monika72 said:
Why is everyone worried about how much we pay him, shouldn't the question be will he fit well in our team and strengthen it. I'm not sure how many people on Big footy are privy to the St Kilda books.
Click to expand...

They aren't worried about what he costs us.
The payment will affect the free agency compensation that the Crows get, and may affect whether they try to match or not.
If we paid him 700K over 5 years, Crows might get pick 2. If he gets 600K or so, they might get around 19ish.
 
flyingmagic said:
Also lol at Carlton.

Gave a second rounder (pick 28) for Mathew Kennedy who has been bog average. Also gave a future second for Setterfield who has improved but hasn't exactly set the world on fire.

They also traded with GWS for Picket, Plowman, Sumner, Jed Lamb and Andrew Phillips.

Meanwhile, we gave a future second for Steele who came third in the brownlow.

It really is about quality over quantity with recruits.
Click to expand...

Mathew Kennedy is doing better than Nathan Freeman.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Mathew Kennedy is doing better than Nathan Freeman.
Click to expand...
Well... not entirely, at least Freeman isn’t still clogging up a list like Kennedy.
 
St Kilda is open to trading defenders Dylan Roberton and Jimmy Webster as the club makes room for incoming Adelaide star midfielder Brad Crouch.
Crouch, 26, has chosen the Saints to continue his career next season after the Herald Sun on Tuesday revealed Geelong had dropped out of the race for the star onballer.

The Crows’ best-and-fairest winner could be the finishing piece in St Kilda’s engine room upgrade and will use his strong contested ball and clearance game to help bring speedy wingman Brad Hill into the play more next season.

As a free agent, Crouch will cost the Saints nothing in a trade, unless Adelaide tried to match the offer. St Kilda’s first pick in this year’s draft is No. 14.

But St Kilda is also open to making hard calls on Roberton, who played only one game for the season, and Webster, who managed eight, in this year’s trade period. Both are contracted at St Kilda for next season.

While Webster, 27, is believed to have attracted some interest, Roberton’s situation is more complicated by his heart issues which kept the rebounding backman sidelined for almost two seasons.

Roberton, 29, is confident he has got on top of the issues with some expert medical advice. He collapsed on the field in Round 4 2018 against Geelong and then had another scare in a preseason game in Ballarat last year.

Roberton’s time out of the game significantly impacted his fitness levels which saw the Saints overlook him for selection in every game this year aside from the season-opener when he had eight possessions against North Melbourne.

Roberton has played only five games in the past three years since he finished second in the club’s best and fairest in a career-best 2017 season.

The Saints are undeterred by Crouch’s end-of-season indiscretion when the star onballer and teammate Tyson Stengle were found with an illicit substance in Adelaide.

St Kilda has spoken with Crouch and are in the advanced stages of talks with his management, W Sports and Media, about a long-term deal.

If the Saints pay Crouch less than $650,000 a year, as expected, the Crows would receive an end-of-first-round compensation selection.

That compensation is a downgrade on Adelaide’s initial hopes that it could receive an early first-round compensation which would slot in at pick No. 2.

But the Saints are unlikely to offer Crouch the blockbuster contract offer required to trigger pick No. 2 which would give Adelaide the first two selections in this year’s draft.

Adelaide football director Mark Ricciuto said the Crows would begin talks with the Saints about the transfer.

“St Kilda could get him for nothing (depending) on whatever wage they offer him (under free agency rules),” Ricciuto said on Triple M.

“Whereas if they offer him low-end (money). If they think they’re going to get him cheap, then Adelaide can match and you have to trade.

“Both clubs get together and work out what happens.”

Ricciuto said the unknown elements of the AFL’s free agency model was frustrating for clubs.

“There is no set formula, there is no document you can get from the AFL to say if he gets this and this you will get that,” he said.

“There is a lot at stake here for Adelaide fans.”


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BrutThough said:
St Kilda is open to trading defenders Dylan Roberton and Jimmy Webster as the club makes room for incoming Adelaide star midfielder Brad Crouch.
Crouch, 26, has chosen the Saints to continue his career next season after the Herald Sun on Tuesday revealed Geelong had dropped out of the race for the star onballer.

The Crows’ best-and-fairest winner could be the finishing piece in St Kilda’s engine room upgrade and will use his strong contested ball and clearance game to help bring speedy wingman Brad Hill into the play more next season.

As a free agent, Crouch will cost the Saints nothing in a trade, unless Adelaide tried to match the offer. St Kilda’s first pick in this year’s draft is No. 14.

But St Kilda is also open to making hard calls on Roberton, who played only one game for the season, and Webster, who managed eight, in this year’s trade period. Both are contracted at St Kilda for next season.

While Webster, 27, is believed to have attracted some interest, Roberton’s situation is more complicated by his heart issues which kept the rebounding backman sidelined for almost two seasons.

Roberton, 29, is confident he has got on top of the issues with some expert medical advice. He collapsed on the field in Round 4 2018 against Geelong and then had another scare in a preseason game in Ballarat last year.

Roberton’s time out of the game significantly impacted his fitness levels which saw the Saints overlook him for selection in every game this year aside from the season-opener when he had eight possessions against North Melbourne.

Roberton has played only five games in the past three years since he finished second in the club’s best and fairest in a career-best 2017 season.

The Saints are undeterred by Crouch’s end-of-season indiscretion when the star onballer and teammate Tyson Stengle were found with an illicit substance in Adelaide.

St Kilda has spoken with Crouch and are in the advanced stages of talks with his management, W Sports and Media, about a long-term deal.

If the Saints pay Crouch less than $650,000 a year, as expected, the Crows would receive an end-of-first-round compensation selection.

That compensation is a downgrade on Adelaide’s initial hopes that it could receive an early first-round compensation which would slot in at pick No. 2.

But the Saints are unlikely to offer Crouch the blockbuster contract offer required to trigger pick No. 2 which would give Adelaide the first two selections in this year’s draft.

Adelaide football director Mark Ricciuto said the Crows would begin talks with the Saints about the transfer.

“St Kilda could get him for nothing (depending) on whatever wage they offer him (under free agency rules),” Ricciuto said on Triple M.

“Whereas if they offer him low-end (money). If they think they’re going to get him cheap, then Adelaide can match and you have to trade.

“Both clubs get together and work out what happens.”

Ricciuto said the unknown elements of the AFL’s free agency model was frustrating for clubs.

“There is no set formula, there is no document you can get from the AFL to say if he gets this and this you will get that,” he said.

“There is a lot at stake here for Adelaide fans.”


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Click to expand...
Doesn't sound like Roo is keen on a band two compo...
 
BrutThough said:
St Kilda is open to trading defenders Dylan Roberton and Jimmy Webster as the club makes room for incoming Adelaide star midfielder Brad Crouch.
Crouch, 26, has chosen the Saints to continue his career next season after the Herald Sun on Tuesday revealed Geelong had dropped out of the race for the star onballer.

The Crows’ best-and-fairest winner could be the finishing piece in St Kilda’s engine room upgrade and will use his strong contested ball and clearance game to help bring speedy wingman Brad Hill into the play more next season.

As a free agent, Crouch will cost the Saints nothing in a trade, unless Adelaide tried to match the offer. St Kilda’s first pick in this year’s draft is No. 14.

But St Kilda is also open to making hard calls on Roberton, who played only one game for the season, and Webster, who managed eight, in this year’s trade period. Both are contracted at St Kilda for next season.

While Webster, 27, is believed to have attracted some interest, Roberton’s situation is more complicated by his heart issues which kept the rebounding backman sidelined for almost two seasons.

Roberton, 29, is confident he has got on top of the issues with some expert medical advice. He collapsed on the field in Round 4 2018 against Geelong and then had another scare in a preseason game in Ballarat last year.

Roberton’s time out of the game significantly impacted his fitness levels which saw the Saints overlook him for selection in every game this year aside from the season-opener when he had eight possessions against North Melbourne.

Roberton has played only five games in the past three years since he finished second in the club’s best and fairest in a career-best 2017 season.

The Saints are undeterred by Crouch’s end-of-season indiscretion when the star onballer and teammate Tyson Stengle were found with an illicit substance in Adelaide.

St Kilda has spoken with Crouch and are in the advanced stages of talks with his management, W Sports and Media, about a long-term deal.

If the Saints pay Crouch less than $650,000 a year, as expected, the Crows would receive an end-of-first-round compensation selection.

That compensation is a downgrade on Adelaide’s initial hopes that it could receive an early first-round compensation which would slot in at pick No. 2.

But the Saints are unlikely to offer Crouch the blockbuster contract offer required to trigger pick No. 2 which would give Adelaide the first two selections in this year’s draft.

Adelaide football director Mark Ricciuto said the Crows would begin talks with the Saints about the transfer.

“St Kilda could get him for nothing (depending) on whatever wage they offer him (under free agency rules),” Ricciuto said on Triple M.

“Whereas if they offer him low-end (money). If they think they’re going to get him cheap, then Adelaide can match and you have to trade.

“Both clubs get together and work out what happens.”

Ricciuto said the unknown elements of the AFL’s free agency model was frustrating for clubs.

“There is no set formula, there is no document you can get from the AFL to say if he gets this and this you will get that,” he said.

“There is a lot at stake here for Adelaide fans.”


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Ricciuto is correct. Both team will get together. We will pay Crouch enough for a band 1 and you take DMAC and his 350k contract for a mid second rounder. Something like that.
 
Snake_Baker said:
G'day sainters. :thumbsu:

I reckon Crouch is a good get at the right price, as I reckon Jones & Hanneberry in the guts were probably the difference in your match against the tiges (along with the umpiring).

However, surely they're not paying him upward of $700K p.a.?
Click to expand...
We'd hope not Snake, but the dog next door knows about as much as us when it comes to player payments.

Opinion is that $650K is acceptable, so another 50K on the top would be affordable should the over all arrangement get the tick.
 
Mikka84 said:
No chance they match. It’s a 4yr deal with a trigger for 5th and @ 650k per season. That is enough to give the Crows band 1 compo, so pick 2. If they match, we can’t even get close to that anyway.
Click to expand...
If the deal is worth band 1 there is no way we match. We've basically been pushing him to move precisely so we can aim for band 1 to help rebuild our list.

Underrated player interstate I think. Will be your number 2 in the engine room and make you better. Midfield improvement looks to me like exactly what you need to take the next step.

Win win.

Good luck to him and the saints. You're building nicely.
 
Lightsxo said:
Be honest, how bad would the melts in your board be if the AFL somehow gave them pick 2?
Click to expand...


It would irritate me slightly, but it's not a significant thing to me. Certainly not as significant as I would see North taking on a 27 year old bloke with an injury history at 5 x $700K plus.

If the Crows get picks 1 & 2, then I reckon the pressure is on them. IMO, they are dead certs to take McDonald with pick 1, who I don't see as a pressing issue for North, so I suspect they would add one of Phillips, Holland, DGB or even Tilthorpe, and I am happy to cop any of those boys.

I'm more concerned with our pick 9 ending up in the mid teens due to all this NGA/compo farce.
 
austinnn said:
Crouch on left, Dunstan on right. The thing that surprised me is the number of games, not shown here. Crouch 95 Dunstan 104. He's played a year longer, but I'd assumed he's been around a lot longer than Luke, he's definitely got a higher profile, and I don't really know why.

Never noticed Crouch in any Saints games I've watched, never seen him so only going on impressions on the board about how good he is and those impressions are inconclusive.

The article below from the AFL site says he "will accept" a 5 year deal, which is gracious of him but seems very long to me. Seems like we'll be paying him well too, around $700G pa.

I'm conflicted; one one hand I feel that the list management team have earnt my trust and they have it. On the other hand this seems on the face of it like not such a great deal for us, unless he absolutely doubles the impact of our midfield.

We need to get games into Bytel, Byrnes and hopefully Caldwell. I'm worried Jye will see this news and feel he won't get many games for us, and back out of coming.

www.afl.com.au

Make a Saint of me: Crows' banned ball-magnet wants out

Brad Crouch nominates St Kilda as his club of choice for next season
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
View attachment 991006
Click to expand...
I like Dunstan: he’s an honest player and seems to love the club, but he is nowhere near B Crouch as a player.

The main reason is his tank: poor old Dunstan just doesn’t have one.

Another reason is ability to accumulate possessions. It’s a bit linked to the above point, but Dunstan has never been able to graduate to a mid that racks up multiple 30 possession games in a season. It’s just not him unfortunately and never will be. Crouch racks up possessions for fun at AFL level and 30 possession games are just another day at the office for him. We haven’t had that since Lenny, Dal and co. (apologies to Steele this year).

Another is disposal by foot. Crouch is significant upgrade on Dunstan in that area. Dunstan is unfortunately quite the ball-butcher, we’ve all seen it.

Lastly is what they’ve achieved in their careers. Crouch is a B and F winner who played a major role during finals in a midfield that played off in a granny and was the best team going around for a while. Dunstan has a rising star nom and was given Lenny’s number a few years back.

Any way you look at it, B Crouch is a major upgrade on Dunstan and our midfield in general. His attributes are exactly what we are lacking in there and it’s party time for our fans as far as I’m concerned with news that he’s signed. A great get.
 
BrutThough said:
Just not a fan of him as a player and not going to pretend to be just because he nominated us.

The reported 600k rather than 700k is more palatable but I'd rather spend more and use draft picks on a better mid than have Crouch. And if Adelaide do match the bid, I will be pissed if we dont walk away. He isn't worth a trade.
Click to expand...
Come on fella!

Get On The Crouch with the rest of us 😀

IHk8CdD.jpg
 
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