List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Arr0w]

Kelly would not join on 4 years, so I am not sure why you are suggesting it. He has a guaranteed 8 years at GWS, hence Norf with the big offer..
With Cerra you trade SPS and possibly another player plus 2nd rounder. The problem with Cerra is his asking price which Freo are likely to match.

Doesn't matter if they match, he isn't a FA

Nor would I give up SPS in a deal

You don't trade best 22 + extras to obtain another best 22

 

[Arr0w]

Most will probably disagree but I feel like Tim O'Brien as a FA would be a shrewd list management move.

Would be very cheap and can play back or forward. We have no insurance whatsoever now (other than Oscar who I definitely think deserves another year, really liked his couple of games as a forward and relief ruck), and I think he's good enough to come in and play to a decent standard when we cop injuries.

It's a smart strategy, these are the type of acquisitions that make sense. As long as he does the chopout ruck work, he is an instant replacement for Levi

 

[CJMB]

Right you are.
Just hoping this list takes off from next year going forward.
If it does, it’ll co$t accordingly …

works both ways though.... if it takes off and we start seeing some success (or players think we're bloody close) then we'll have guys re-sign for unders to 'keep the band together' and it'll cost a lot more for another club to convince them to move.

 

[CJMB]

Kelly would not join on 4 years, so I am not sure why you are suggesting it. He has a guaranteed 8 years at GWS, hence Norf with the big offer..
With Cerra you trade SPS and possibly another player plus 2nd rounder. The problem with Cerra is his asking price which Freo are likely to match.

Sounds like (according to those in the west like Ryan Daniels/Nick Rynne) that it'll cost more to keep Cerra than it will to get him to move back to Melbourne. And he's not a free agent, he's just out of contract

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Playing devils advocate. If we did want to move Charlie on it’s only because our physicians said we are better off moving him on, and then whoever we want to trade him to’s physicians will say ‘he is too risky to part with too much currency.’

if he is as cooked as you think he is then we would still be better off retaining him.

We would be trading Charlie at his lowest and can expect the equivalent compensation, would rather keep him in and try and get him right. His contract is expiring, and he wont be getting the big dollars we paid him last contract so worth keeping him around.

 

[CJMB]

I don't get it, players are worth exactly what they are worth regardless of whether they are retained or traded. The only dynamic at play is whether a side has a greater need for players in a particular position. Everyone would think we were beggars at the mercy of the powerful in regards to the prospect of trading out players.

What's Parish worth now compared to the end of last year?

The value doesn't matter if you keep them, whatever was paid is done, but what's the point in trading if the return is SFA compared to what it could be? If they've been out due to injuries or form you ain't getting much for them so it's probably best to keep them and see if you can get them up and running again (obviously has to be belief that they can get back/improve) rather than exchanging them for a packet of chips or delisting them.

If they come good then you've go the option to play them or move them on for something of value, but if they don't then it's ok as you were probably only being offered a late pick for them in the first place anyway and it's easy to cut your losses and move on at that point.

This is more on players with potential, especially talented/highly-rated younger players, and definitely not a blanket rule for the entire list.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Ok... here we go.
Has not played in 2+ years. If and when he does come back he will be a shadow of his former self. One knock to that knee could end his career.
We put DEK to CHF, he will be a sensation. He moves well, strong mark absolute champion in the making.

Not a strong mark though.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Doesn't matter if they match, he isn't a FA

Nor would I give up SPS in a deal

You don't trade best 22 + extras to obtain another best 22

SPS is only top 22 at the moment by way of default. Cerra would be close to one of the first half-dozen picked. Giving away draft picks at the drop of a hat as our only trading option, whenever we've identified a trade target, has only stunted our ability to build a list with the right mix of players to compete with the top sides. I also think Dow will end up the better player than SPS.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

What's Parish worth now compared to the end of last year?

The value doesn't matter if you keep them, whatever was paid is done, but what's the point in trading if the return is SFA compared to what it could be? If they've been out due to injuries or form you ain't getting much for them so it's probably best to keep them and see if you can get them up and running again (obviously has to be belief that they can get back/improve) rather than exchanging them for a packet of chips or delisting them.

If they come good then you've go the option to play them or move them on for something of value, but if they don't then it's ok as you were probably only being offered a late pick for them in the first place anyway and it's easy to cut your losses and move on at that point.

This is more on players with potential, especially talented/highly-rated younger players, and definitely not a blanket rule for the entire list.

I was talking generally as it is the logic that is always used whenever the subject of trading one of our players comes up. 'Now' is never the right time and you know that is what always comes up year after year. What if Charlie gets injured again and gives us nothing? It's not as black and white as you want it to be.

 

[TENACIOUS]

SPS is only top 22 at the moment by way of default. Cerra would be close to one of the first half-dozen picked. Giving away draft picks at the drop of a hat as our only trading option, whenever we've identified a trade target, has only stunted our ability to build a list with the right mix of players to compete with the top sides. I also think Dow will end up the better player than SPS.

Disagree..
Once SPS gets used to the midfield again, he will be silk...
Hope he is the next announcement and they re-sign him ASAP

 

[DangerousD]

Disagree..
Once SPS gets midfield fit again he will be silk...
Hope he is the next announcement and they re-sign him ASAP

Whats midfield fit mean? He’s in his 5th season of AFL and has been largely unaffected by injury, despite some praising his game against Adelaide, he had 14 disposals and 15 against the Dockers.

 

[DangerousD]

A lot of talk regarding player acquisition and who/what type to target at draft time, but who or how many are going out? I think we need to make a call on 3 rookies, so if we wanted to take two picks in the ND, one in the rookie, bring in a trade and promote a rookie, that’s 5 players that need to go.

I don’t see how we don’t trade one or two players.

 

[Juddernaut08]

A lot of talk regarding player acquisition and who/what type to target at draft time, but who or how many are going out? I think we need to make a call on 3 rookies, so if we wanted to take two picks in the ND, one in the rookie, bring in a trade and promote a rookie, that’s 5 players that need to go.

I don’t see how we don’t trade one or two players.

potentially:
murphy
gibbons

 

[CJMB]

A lot of talk regarding player acquisition and who/what type to target at draft time, but who or how many are going out? I think we need to make a call on 3 rookies, so if we wanted to take two picks in the ND, one in the rookie, bring in a trade and promote a rookie, that’s 5 players that need to go.

I don’t see how we don’t trade one or two players.

I guess it also depends, are list sizes remaining the same next year or might it go back up to what it was previously? What happens with the minimum drafting numbers, does it go back to 3 ND (inc. rookie upgrades)?

Going off this for 2021 OOC: Carlton Football Club Team List and Contract Status | Page 61 | BigFooty

Senior: Silvagni, Murphy, O'Brien, SPS, Kemp, Newman, Pittonet, Newnes, Ramsay, Curnow, Gibbons, Casboult
Rookie: Kennedy, Betts, Honey, McDonald, Owies (Cat B), Cottrell, Boyd

Potential retirements in Murphy, Casboult & Betts. Can Owies stay Cat B for 1 more year? O'Brien maybe a downgrade to rookie? Kennedy back to senior list? Will Honey & Ramsay get games this year? What happens with Newnes, Gibbons, Cottrell, McDonald, Boyd? Will SPS request a trade?...

 

[TENACIOUS]

A lot of talk regarding player acquisition and who/what type to target at draft time, but who or how many are going out? I think we need to make a call on 3 rookies, so if we wanted to take two picks in the ND, one in the rookie, bring in a trade and promote a rookie, that’s 5 players that need to go.

I don’t see how we don’t trade one or two players.

Depending on list numbers and keeping in mind we are 2 list spots over the current maximum,
with Mirkov (Reported - 18 month contract) and Boyd (Reported - 6 month contract) covering injuries..

Think a possibility Setterfield could be traded, only OOC not currently playing with currency.

We have to many of the same type slow inside mids and HBFs,
We need to thin the midfield & HBF depth out a bit and add some KPP depth to even our list out..

But in saying that Ed Richards would be on top of my list and I'd give 2 x Firsts for Bailey Smith

 

[DangerousD]

I guess it also depends, are list sizes remaining the same next year or might it go back up to what it was previously? What happens with the minimum drafting numbers, does it go back to 3 ND (inc. rookie upgrades)?

Going off this for 2021 OOC: Carlton Football Club Team List and Contract Status | Page 61 | BigFooty

Senior: Silvagni, Murphy, O'Brien, SPS, Kemp, Newman, Pittonet, Newnes, Ramsay, Curnow, Gibbons, Casboult
Rookie: Kennedy, Betts, Honey, McDonald, Owies (Cat B), Cottrell, Boyd

Potential retirements in Murphy, Casboult & Betts. Can Owies stay Cat B for 1 more year? O'Brien maybe a downgrade to rookie? Kennedy back to senior list? Will Honey & Ramsay get games this year? What happens with Newnes, Gibbons, Cottrell, McDonald, Boyd? Will SPS request a trade?...

Of course, but you haven’t actually said who gets cut, Murphy, Cas, Betts and Kennedy were clear choices until Betts and Kennedy have possibly earned new deals, can you cut Cas, when we have very little key position depth?


Im interested in the discussion around who people see as being the ones to make way, lots of posters want LOB to have more time, say we can’t trade SPS, say we need to keep Gov, that’s fine, but around 5 changes need to be made

 

[DangerousD]

potentially:
murphy
gibbons

That’s just two, who do you think will make up the rest? We need to cut 5-6 from the list.

 

[Juddernaut08]

That’s just two, who do you think will make up the rest? We need to cut 5-6 from the list.

newnes
boyd may not be renewed past his 6 months
lob could be traded, definitely behind dow and sps

there's your 5

 

[Ash24]

Re-sign - SPS, Kemp, Silvagni, Pittonet, Ramsay, Owies
Re-sign Rookie - Kennedy, Honey,
Trade - Setterfield, O'Brien, Gibbons, Newman
Delist - McDonald (R), Cottrell (R), Boyd (R), Newnes,
Retire - Murphy, Casboult, Curnow, Betts (R)

It's so hard how do you choose?

Got to sadly disagree with a few of these.

On current form, Newman is performing better than Docherty - we do not want to trade him. I also think that considering we are quite short on KPP, wing and lockdown defender depth, we'd be silly to delist OMac, Newnes and Boyd. Even the retirement of Betts/Curnow is very stiff.

 

[CJMB]

Of course, but you haven’t actually said who gets cut, Murphy, Cas, Betts and Kennedy were clear choices until Betts and Kennedy have possibly earned new deals, can you cut Cas, when we have very little key position depth?


Im interested in the discussion around who people see as being the ones to make way, lots of posters want LOB to have more time, say we can’t trade SPS, say we need to keep Gov, that’s fine, but around 5 changes need to be made

I wasn't going as far as making the call on who gets cut. 3 weeks ago I probably would have thought Kennedy was most likely going to be delisted. Things may change, he might get injured or have a form slump and get dropped, but today it certainly feels like he'll be playing next year. The same applies to others like Newnes, Gibbons Ramsay, etc.

I guess the futures of Levi &/or McDonald may be linked to our trade/draft plans. If we're bring in some key position players then the we don't have the depth issue, or at least not to the same extent.

Personally, wouldn't surprise me if it's more than 5 cuts, assuming list sizes stay the same.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I’d also chase Miller or Hooper if they remain unsigned, not so high profile but both have grunt and good skills set which we need in the engine room.
I think Cerra too, would be a great addition, long term investment
tough & durable, good skills, especially decision making and ball delivery.

Feel like that's underselling Miller a bit - he's one of the best players in the league

 

[Beer n Skittles]

His been playing HF, those are reasonable numbers.. Needs to get used to playing in the midfield I meant

Will there be opportunity for SPS to play primarily in the midfield though?

There's arguably a spot or two up for grabs going forward; but Dow, Kennedy or Cuningham look more likely.

 

[Arr0w]

No trade value with the likes of Newman, Gibbons, Newnes and 1 or all could still be of value in the next year or 2

Until some/all of our kids push past these types, they will still play a role

 

[jooce8891]

i'd hate to see us delist McDonald and not pick up another mature tall in the draft or from the trade period.

 

[Coops93]

It grates me every time Touk Miller plays well, in 2014 we were a team crying out for leadership, Touk was captain of Calder Cannons flag and Vic Metro, a midfielder who had slid down after being highly rated.. and at pick 28 we took Dillon Viojo- Rainbow.. Miller taken by Gold Coast at pick 29 was exactly the type of player we needed, and I think we would be a completely different side right now had we taken him.

A similar story will happen throughout Deven Robertson career. Almost exactly the back story, young leader and captain etc. and a midfielder who would fit a need perfectly.

I think just about everyone on this board wanted us to take him at the time.

Oh well...