List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

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Aug 17, 2015
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Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com


Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley


Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)
 
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aussierulesrules said:
That’s just another rubbish, inflammatory post because you again either don’t want to read what I wrote properly, or you just have crap comprehension skills.

Also, your assertion that Battle is worth a first rounder is way off. If you went onto the neutral boards and posted that they’d laugh you out of the place.
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how was it inflamed?

sounds like you’re in your own head here mate. I read what you wrote.

you made a lot of assumptions.

and okay fair enough. I don’t really care what neutral boards think to be honest. I post here.

anything else?
 
Sainter1873 said:
Battle doesn’t really have a spot anymore. Highmore has taken his spot and the Howard, Wilkie and Highmore key defender group looks settled. Sharman has come from nowhere and completes the key forward group. On a wing he’s ordinary. I’m not surprised his management is looking elsewhere because he can’t find a good role with us and he’s clearly of the belief that he should be playing every week.
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Yeah spot on, I think he's gonna be a tough one to let go given we know he has the potential to be a very good player but definitely the way we've been going it does not really fills a need in the side which is disappointing.

I think if he's able to snag us a mid-late 2nd rounder I would probably do it, which is sad to say. He could become an absolute star and I hope he does but 3 guys ahead of him in his position both forward and back with the hopeful arrival of Bing this year or next, can't help but feel this may be the highest value we can get for him before he forces his way out.
 
kernelT said:
You had me till ‘long’ gringo...
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He wasn't great but he adds the element of menace. He just looks like a psychopath when players are in his vicinity, he's like a swinging bag of hammers. Even if doesn't hit you you play looking over your shoulder. Him and Butler could both be upgraded but just menace factor adds something.
 

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gringo2011 said:
He wasn't great but he adds the element of menace. He just looks like a psychopath when players are in his vicinity, he's like a swinging bag of hammers. Even if doesn't hit you you play looking over your shoulder. Him and Butler could both be upgraded but just menace factor adds something.
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Need guys like that in premiership teams, he seems to be a guy who doesn't drop his head like most of the team even if he makes a lot of mistakes. Keep Long, he seems to be well liked by the playing group from what I've seen too and if he trains as a forward this pre-season I've got belief he can become a goal a game player while tackling the shit out of guys.
 
Joffaboy said:
So Jones, Howard, Butler, Hill and Ryder was no actual upgrade on Newnes Acres and Bruce and the others delisted.

That's what you are saying. And I only question your post because it is unmitigated bs. By any measure 2019 trading and drafting was a success but you go to the level of trying to diminish it by comparing Butler to Lonie.
At the same time that you belittle these players you die on the hill of Dunstan.

You just can not give credit when it's due.

Marshall
Byrne's
Connelly
Wilkie
Highmore
Sharman
are all just luck according to you. But if we miss one similar playing at another club, we are crap and hopeless and so 'St.Kildary'.
The club deserves criticism when due, but you criticise or dismiss anything the club does.
As I said it is a tiresome and wholly inaccurate trope.

As for 'don't react, it was a response to a post I did. I am supposed to read your inaccurate dismissal of the facts I produced and just not respond?
Here's a tip to you, don't respond to my posts if you don't like them but don't get your nose out of joint if I defend them
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This is pointless, I could keep this going putting up 10 years of examples of how shit our drafting and list management was. It was a funny line that a few people have taken as a great insult. Libba has put together a very solid body of work with not much access to picks. He deserves some credit

This argument was actually about letting players leave for less than their perceived value and you brought it around to a comparison of the off sets. The fact that we have nearly completely changed the list in three years since Lethlean arrived suggests that even the club know they made some serious missteps in the recent past.

How is you saying how shit Dunstan is at every opportunity any different to me having negative opinion of other aspects of the club. It's just how we both perceive it. Maybe we're both negative but you are a more socially acceptable negative person because you agree with the consensus view.
 
JimmyMann said:
Need guys like that in premiership teams, he seems to be a guy who doesn't drop his head like most of the team even if he makes a lot of mistakes. Keep Long, he seems to be well liked by the playing group from what I've seen too and if he trains as a forward this pre-season I've got belief he can become a goal a game player while tackling the sh*t out of guys.
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I think he's got a contract and iI doubt anyone lines up for his services so we just have to hope he comes good next year like DMac did. Maybe he played with some kind of injury or missed preseason.
 
aussierulesrules said:
Well he got a bagful of goals kicked on him by the relatively short (for modern “KPF’s”) Jacks Riewoldt and Darling, in consecutive games early this year, so that suggests that actually defending might be a weakness.

You’d have to think that if they thought he was good enough to defend back there that he would have gotten more chances, but perhaps he’s tried and failed at training, and then failed again when they tried him there on a couple of guys his own height in AFL games. And perhaps they thought it was a weakness when he played back there in 2019.

He’s probably too similar to Wilkie, but worse at defending, and they’re both pretty slow. Highmore looks quicker than both.
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I'm not necessarily sold he'd be a great defender, but I think that's a tad unfair. Darling kicked two goals in round 4 - one on Howard, one on Battle.

Riewoldt kicked five goals. One on Howard and one where he got Clark holding the ball. Two on Battle. One on Wilkie where a Battle kick got smothered and caused a turnover. So in a defensive sense, Riewoldt kicked two on Battle. Hardly a poor reflection on Battle in a game we lost by 15 goals.

Agreed though that Highmore is well ahead of Battle. Highmore has elite intercepting. I think Battle's issue as a defender is that he is decent at all elements of it but not elite in any. His size is ok but not massive. He's not quick. He's an ok interceptor but not great. He's ok defensively but not great.
 
stavro#4 said:
So am I correct in saying your nailing Battle as a poor defender because…

Darling kicked 2 in the first 10 minutes of round 4(I think the first was a Joe the goose aswell) - then Didnt kick another for the rest of the game.

then Riewoldt in a game we got destroyed by 80 points?
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The first goal Darling kicked was from a very poor free kick IIRC.

I think Battle showed a lot of promise in 2019 holding down a key defender role.

People will say he struggles to defend at times which is similar to what people were saying about Tom McCartin early in his career and he's improved that area of his game.

I was disappointed we gave up trying to develop him in that role when we lack a key defender and instead tried to develop him as a wingman.
 
bird_man said:
The first goal Darling kicked was from a very poor free kick IIRC.

I think Battle showed a lot of promise in 2019 holding down a key defender role.

People will say he struggles to defend at times which is similar to what people were saying about Tom McCartin early in his career and he's improved that area of his game.

I was disappointed we gave up trying to develop him in that role when we lack a key defender and instead tried to develop him as a wingman.
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The rumour was that he was going to play key back when he went down for the year.
 

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AirWinmar said:
I do find it strange that we have openly said we're not offering Spook a contract. Like him or not he is 2nd in our coaches votes this year off half the games and 1 of only 5 Saints in the top 100 players.

At the very least you'd think you would offer him a low ball contract and be honest with him similar like last year that he is behind a few. Then its his decision.

At the least he is a very handy depth player with great leadership and is a true mid so great for development of young players as long as he isn't teaching them to kick.
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Absolutely. I’m not fussed with him going, but as you say you can low ball and he comes back if he’s forced to on a low contract and we can pick and choose when we need him. Very odd
 
Ducky Tie said:
I'm not necessarily sold he'd be a great defender, but I think that's a tad unfair. Darling kicked two goals in round 4 - one on Howard, one on Battle.

Riewoldt kicked five goals. One on Howard and one where he got Clark holding the ball. Two on Battle. One on Wilkie where a Battle kick got smothered and caused a turnover. So in a defensive sense, Riewoldt kicked two on Battle. Hardly a poor reflection on Battle in a game we lost by 15 goals.

Agreed though that Highmore is well ahead of Battle. Highmore has elite intercepting. I think Battle's issue as a defender is that he is decent at all elements of it but not elite in any. His size is ok but not massive. He's not quick. He's an ok interceptor but not great. He's ok defensively but not great.
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Being a good defender is as much about team defence as it is 1 on 1.

if the ball is just coming down there time after time and it’s coming in low and flat. You’ll get a bag on you.

if it’s coming in slow, long and high - you’ll look like a star.
 
bird_man said:
The first goal Darling kicked was from a very poor free kick IIRC.

I think Battle showed a lot of promise in 2019 holding down a key defender role.

People will say he struggles to defend at times which is similar to what people were saying about Tom McCartin early in his career and he's improved that area of his game.

I was disappointed we gave up trying to develop him in that role when we lack a key defender and instead tried to develop him as a wingman.
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Yeah I'm in the same camp, he's been horribly mismanaged under Ratten and if he is on the list next year he just needs to play back end of story (no more of this wing bs and high half forward). But I just have such little confidence given the way we've thrown him around at a young age that we as a club can get the best out of him, so I'm more open to trades to just part ways and give us both a fresh start.
 
Not really keen on Long as anything other than ~23 - 28the player depth on his present form and he can't be given a spot in the 22 for just a handful of moments in games.

That said, his line up tackle on Brayshaw last week really set the tone I thought; Brayshaw was off for a bit and I think that along with a couple of other seemingly small / innocuous moments really made Freo drop their heads collectively - he is one of the few we have who can give off the 'this is really not going to be your day, and it's going to be a long (heh) one' to opposing teams.

All that said, he's only played 45 games and has been moved around the ground a bit. If he can demand a place in the side through an amazing pre-season then good on him. Hell, I just put DMac of all people in my preferred 22 for 2022.
 
That has been the problem
JimmyMann said:
Need guys like that in premiership teams, he seems to be a guy who doesn't drop his head like most of the team even if he makes a lot of mistakes. Keep Long, he seems to be well liked by the playing group from what I've seen too and if he trains as a forward this pre-season I've got belief he can become a goal a game player while tackling the sh*t out of guys.
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That has been the problem with him, no goals. Had a chance to kick a few but was off target a few times and as a forward you have to kick the gettable ones. That was his downfall at the selection table.
 
TheEnsign said:
Not really keen on Long as anything other than ~23 - 28the player depth on his present form and he can't be given a spot in the 22 for just a handful of moments in games.

That said, his line up tackle on Brayshaw last week really set the tone I thought; Brayshaw was off for a bit and I think that along with a couple of other seemingly small / innocuous moments really made Freo drop their heads collectively - he is one of the few we have who can give off the 'this is really not going to be your day, and it's going to be a long (heh) one' to opposing teams.

All that said, he's only played 45 games and has been moved around the ground a bit. If he can demand a place in the side through an amazing pre-season then good on him. Hell, I just put DMac of all people in my preferred 22 for 2022.
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Long needs to demand a place in the side by killing it at sandy and playing well when he gets his chance. He’s a training track and practice game gun apparently but after so many chances it’s time to produce in the real games.
 
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sammm said:
stupid if they appoint Ross, he has been out of the game for 3 years. he will have the same coaching methodology. oh well they will fail to get a premiership with him at the helm. it will be unfortuante that i might have to hear his voice more often if he goes to carlton.
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Greg Williams is the new Football Director and he wants Lyon. It will happen.

Cerra might run out of suitors with the price that Fremantle will ask.
 
JimmyMann said:
Yeah I'm in the same camp, he's been horribly mismanaged under Ratten and if he is on the list next year he just needs to play back end of story (no more of this wing bs and high half forward). But I just have such little confidence given the way we've thrown him around at a young age that we as a club can get the best out of him, so I'm more open to trades to just part ways and give us both a fresh start.
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If it did happen, no shame on you with those types of players kicking a couple on you. Jack R is bordering on a superstar and the other Jack D has kicked a lot of goals over the years.
 
Bill Mohr said:
That has been the problem

That has been the problem with him, no goals. Had a chance to kick a few but was off target a few times and as a forward you have to kick the gettable ones. That was his downfall at the selection table.
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That's true for sure but it felt like he was out of practice more than anything. He was a beautiful set shot before we moved him back then to a wing and then back up forward. I reckon most players (especially at his age) would struggle to play as a swingman and then be asked mid-season to find form as a key forward.

Gresham was heading on the same trend as well before injuries, is he a mid (despite being far more valuable forward)? Neither the size nor ball use to be an onballer yet we seem to just love playing guys who had been great in their original positions in new ones, it's one of the few things I think Ratten has gotten wrong since he got to the club.
 
Not really trade related, but these threads tend to become all encompassing in the off season anyway.

Will be really interesting to see how we structure up as a forwardline next year. King looks ready to absolutely explode. Quite often when players get to the level of dominance I think he is capable of, the system tends to adapt to use that player as somewhat of a decoy to allow the other forwards to cash in. Franklin 2013 and JRoo the two most recent examples.

I think with the likes of Membrey, Sharman and Higgins, we have the weapons that we could set up a really potent forwardline that is dangerous across the board. Membrey in particular is the one I think we should be priming for a big season inside 50. With King drawing the attention, get Membrey back to his old role and I reckon he'll kick 50 odd goals. I think we are probably better off if Membrey and King both kick 50 odd goals, than if King kicks 60-70 and Membrey kicks 30 odd.

At the same time though, you don't want to jump the gun before King is at that level. It's also exciting to imagine the prospect of him just tearing a season up. Good options for the coaching staff to have.
 
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