Player Watch 2022 AFL National Draft Discussion - read the pinned post

Who will you be happy with Hawthorn selecting with their first pick?

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National AFL draft Monday November 28(first round only).
All other selections to be held on Tuesday November 29.
The pre-season and rookie drafts will then take place at 3pm (AEST) on Wednesday November 30.




 
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Strapping Young Lad said:
Clark’s long been held as one of the big 5 in this draft.

People in here banging on about how he’s a Hawthorn supporter like it means anything might be getting a bit misty eyed over a player that we overlook at our pick.
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If we keep 7 and he is available I'm curious to hear why you think we might overlook him, or who you see as better value or fit?.
 
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daniel23 said:
If we keep 7 and he is available I'm curious to here why you think we might overlook him, or who you see as better value or fit?.
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Because we'd take Clark if he's there.
 

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smish said:
Is this opinion or have you heard something SYL?
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He’s a top 5 talent in this draft, has been for a long time. If we hold 7 and both Clark and McKenzie are there I’d be surprised if we took MacKenzie.
 
Strapping Young Lad said:
He’s a top 5 talent in this draft, has been for a long time. If we hold 7 and both Clark and McKenzie are there I’d be surprised if we took MacKenzie.
Click to expand...

So it's opinion, in future can you just let us know to save confusion. Otherwise we should just open up the welcome to Hawthorn jhye Clark thread.

I'm happy with either , I like McKenzie's pod. Very interested in next week's game now.
 
Strapping Young Lad said:
He’s a top 5 talent in this draft, has been for a long time. If we hold 7 and both Clark and McKenzie are there I’d be surprised if we took MacKenzie.
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you're right, our recruiters bid on Braeden Campbell, they arent infallible and that Kai Windsor talk early in the year, i dont even know sometimes.

its a coin toss, but i would choose MacKenzie and i hope our recruiters do too, but talk is he will be gone and they wont have to make that decision, so who knows?
 
Davo-27 said:
you're right, our recruiters bid on Braeden Campbell, they arent infallible and that Kai Windsor talk early in the year, i dont even know sometimes.

its a coin toss, but i would choose MacKenzie and i hope our recruiters do too, but talk is he will be gone and they wont have to make that decision, so who knows?
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If you are suggesting that we were wrong to bid on Campbell, that’s an odd take.
 

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Strapping Young Lad said:
If you are suggesting that we were wrong to bid on Campbell, that’s an odd take.
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for most of that year i was talking up Gulden ahead of B.Campbell and everyone else had Braeden high, since then its become obvious Gulden was better than B.Campbell, its an annoyance.
 
Davo-27 said:
for most of that year i was talking up Gulden ahead of B.Campbell and everyone else had Braeden high, since then its become obvious Gulden was better than B.Campbell, its an annoyance.
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If no club matches those interstate academy kids then Sydney get them all for 4/5ths of **** all.
 
Seeing as we seem to have two fan favorites for our pick that, pending any North PPBS, will be available at our picks. Figured I'd give a little write-up comparing Jhye Clark and Cam Mackenzie, how I think they fit for our team, their playstyles, their strengths, areas of improvement, and the "development timeline" that I'd expect each to take in our team.

First and foremost, a quick rundown of other options:

If any of:
Wardlaw
Tsatas
Sheezel

fall to our pick, I'd snap them up. This is NOT to say that they are that far ahead of our options, but all three have special talents, a more proven track record, and are great selections. I would not advocate trading up to Pick 2 unless we get it on the cheap. Cadman is close to this group, but if we pass him for Clark or Mackenzie I won't be guffawed with shock and terror. He's a good player, but he's in the same tier as Mackenzie and Clark and I won't fault a recruiter for putting him below them as the best player available.

If any of:
Phillapou
Humphrey
Jefferson
Ginbey
Hewett

end up at our pick, I'd be a tad surprised but ultimately happy. Five players with great upside, if we back our development team in then there's no reason these three couldn't end up as stars. For right now, I personally would not be taking them ahead of Clark and Mackenzie.

Now, onto the real content:

Jhye Clark - 181cm 78kg - Inside Midfielder/Medium Forward

Averages - NAB League
9 Games, 5 goals, 25.4 Disposals (17.3 Kicks, 8.1 Handballs), 4.7 Marks, 4.8 Tackles, 5.8 i50s

Strengths
Leadership
Contested Possession Winning
Clean Hands at Contests
Core Strength
Decision Making
Neat Kicking
Two-Way Running
Stamina
Dual-Sided
Vertical Leap
Overhead Marking
Goal Sense
Workrate

Improvement Areas
Burst Speed
Kicking through contact

Development & Positions
Development Positions: High Half Forward/Wing
Prime Positions: Inside Midfielder
Positional Development Timeframe: ~1 season

Playstyle Writeup
A lot has been said of what Jhye Clark can't do, which I find strange. There's a lot of focus on two things: His frame and his first-step speed. First of all, his height has done nothing to stop Jhye from dominating NAB League and State football as both a contested midfielder and a half-forward target. He has genuine burst in his jumps and strong hands that make him a lively marking option, eliminating any worries about his versatility. His speed out of the contest is his biggest detractor, but it's nothing you can't work on improving. It's a bit disingenuous to say Clark isn't fast, he has good pace but takes a half-second longer to click into it. With his vertical leap, fast-twitch running trainers (such as Finn's infamous summer program) will have a field day tuning him up to AFL standard. Regardless, what Jhye can do is genuinely impressive in scope. At NAB League level he has had to shoulder a lot of the midfield burden, with partner in crime Ted Clohsey limited in his midfield versatility and playing a largely defensive role. This meant Clark regularly played as the main midfield extractor, outside runner, point of attack, and forward threat, and in all aspects, his toughness, core strength, strong yet fast hands, and ambidextrous kicking prowess elevated his team beyond what should be expected. His leadership is vocal and directional, he plays physical football well and knows how to position players at stoppages to get first hands on the footy and shoot it off to an outside runner. He knows how to be that runner, coming across the back of packs and collecting the ball, shooting a neat kick into the hands of a leading player. He isn't a booming, Isaac Smith-style kick and he doesn't wear kick through contact as cleanly as he does with some space, but his versatility, consistent effort, and fundamental football skills combine to make up a brilliant player with few faults who can play in any midfield in the comp.

Cameron Mackenzie - 187cm 80kg - Balanced Midfielder

Averages - NAB League
10 Games, 4 goals, 24.1 Disposals (11.8 Kicks, 12.3 Handballs), 3.4 Marks, 3.7 Tackles, 4.7 i50s

Strengths
Decision Making
Agility
Core Strength
Burst Speed
Penetrating Kick
Fast Hands
Kicking with Space
Reading the Play
Composure
Goal Kicking
Consistency
Workrate


Improvement Areas
Overhead Marking
Kicking Through Contact
Kicking Consistency
Versatility


Development & Positions
Development Positions: Half Forward/Tagger
Prime Positions: Inside Midfielder
Positional Development Timeline: 1-3 Seasons

Playstyle Writeup
A new fan favorite, Cam Mackenzie presents a unique opportunity to draft a player with both consistency and upside. He has the footy IQ, fast hands, and strong boot to play as a high-baseline player along with the athleticism, height, composure, and goal sense to really firm as a superstar. Playing largely as a reflection of Will Ashcroft, Mackenzie has the frame and fast hands to extract the footy from a stoppage and the burst speed to receive the ball and spear it into a forward target. His agility and composure evoke a Pendlebury sort of player, and his understanding of field position and player movements allow him to shoot off perfectly timed handpasses after drawing the opponent's attention. Mackenzie's kicking in space is superb but he needs to adjust better to contact in both marking contests and kicking. It isn't a matter of rushing himself, he just needs to build his frame up to weather contact. His goal kicking is more "clean" than "crafty", he gets himself free and finishes well but doesn't create opportunities for himself out of packs in the forward line. At half forward, his kicking allows Cam to either deliver neat little kicks into targets or go long and hammer it through himself. If we were to move off Finn as a tagger, I'd love to see Mackenzie play as a lockdown Forward and really get that experience running with the best halfbacks in the game and learning the bodywork, running patterns, and marking position while he's at it. He tends to favor hitting up a target when he should sometimes just go for home, but that's more a factor of his brilliant forward options and he rarely makes a mistake on delivery. Ultimately a high baseline, high upside player with all the tools to become a star midfielder.

Final Comparison

These two are some of my favorite players in the whole draft, They both offer a balanced midfield skillset with the versatility to play around our development schedule. Both would likely play the role CMac played this year, a half forward that might get a role through the midfield or up the wing. If I was put on the clock right now I'd be leaning toward Mackenzie, but only by the slimmest of margins. While different players, both are consistently delivering for their teams and would quickly cement themselves as mainstays through the corridor for us. Mackenzie gets the nod solely for his upside, Clark is great at the contest and provides unparalleled will but Mackenzie's agility, burst, and composure lend themselves to a potentially dominant and game-winning star. If we pick up either, I'd expect Clark ends up starting in our midfield sometime next season, while Mackenzie may need a year or two to build an AFL frame and tank before playing as a full-time mid.
 
TDS7 said:
Seeing as we seem to have two fan favorites for our pick that, pending any North PPBS, will be available at our picks. Figured I'd give a little write-up comparing Jhye Clark and Cam Mackenzie, how I think they fit for our team, their playstyles, their strengths, areas of improvement, and the "development timeline" that I'd expect each to take in our team.

First and foremost, a quick rundown of other options:

If any of:
Wardlaw
Tsatas
Sheezel

fall to our pick, I'd snap them up. This is NOT to say that they are that far ahead of our options, but all three have special talents, a more proven track record, and are great selections. I would not advocate trading up to Pick 2 unless we get it on the cheap. Cadman is close to this group, but if we pass him for Clark or Mackenzie I won't be guffawed with shock and terror. He's a good player, but he's in the same tier as Mackenzie and Clark and I won't fault a recruiter for putting him below them as the best player available.

If any of:
Phillapou
Humphrey
Jefferson
Ginbey
Hewett

end up at our pick, I'd be a tad surprised but ultimately happy. Five players with great upside, if we back our development team in then there's no reason these three couldn't end up as stars. For right now, I personally would not be taking them ahead of Clark and Mackenzie.

Now, onto the real content:

Jhye Clark - 181cm 78kg - Inside Midfielder/Medium Forward

Averages - NAB League
9 Games, 5 goals, 25.4 Disposals (17.3 Kicks, 8.1 Handballs), 4.7 Marks, 4.8 Tackles, 5.8 i50s

Strengths
Leadership
Contested Possession Winning
Clean Hands at Contests
Core Strength
Decision Making
Neat Kicking
Two-Way Running
Stamina
Dual-Sided
Vertical Leap
Overhead Marking
Goal Sense
Workrate

Improvement Areas
Burst Speed
Kicking through contact

Development & Positions
Development Positions: High Half Forward/Wing
Prime Positions: Inside Midfielder
Positional Development Timeframe: ~1 season

Playstyle Writeup
A lot has been said of what Jhye Clark can't do, which I find strange. There's a lot of focus on two things: His frame and his first-step speed. First of all, his height has done nothing to stop Jhye from dominating NAB League and State football as both a contested midfielder and a half-forward target. He has genuine burst in his jumps and strong hands that make him a lively marking option, eliminating any worries about his versatility. His speed out of the contest is his biggest detractor, but it's nothing you can't work on improving. It's a bit disingenuous to say Clark isn't fast, he has good pace but takes a half-second longer to click into it. With his vertical leap, fast-twitch running trainers (such as Finn's infamous summer program) will have a field day tuning him up to AFL standard. Regardless, what Jhye can do is genuinely impressive in scope. At NAB League level he has had to shoulder a lot of the midfield burden, with partner in crime Ted Clohsey limited in his midfield versatility and playing a largely defensive role. This meant Clark regularly played as the main midfield extractor, outside runner, point of attack, and forward threat, and in all aspects, his toughness, core strength, strong yet fast hands, and ambidextrous kicking prowess elevated his team beyond what should be expected. His leadership is vocal and directional, he plays physical football well and knows how to position players at stoppages to get first hands on the footy and shoot it off to an outside runner. He knows how to be that runner, coming across the back of packs and collecting the ball, shooting a neat kick into the hands of a leading player. He isn't a booming, Isaac Smith-style kick and he doesn't wear kick through contact as cleanly as he does with some space, but his versatility, consistent effort, and fundamental football skills combine to make up a brilliant player with few faults who can play in any midfield in the comp.

Cameron Mackenzie - 187cm 80kg - Balanced Midfielder

Averages - NAB League
10 Games, 4 goals, 24.1 Disposals (11.8 Kicks, 12.3 Handballs), 3.4 Marks, 3.7 Tackles, 4.7 i50s

Strengths
Decision Making
Agility
Core Strength
Burst Speed
Penetrating Kick
Fast Hands
Kicking with Space
Reading the Play
Composure
Goal Kicking
Consistency
Workrate


Improvement Areas
Overhead Marking
Kicking Through Contact
Kicking Consistency
Versatility


Development & Positions
Development Positions: Half Forward/Tagger
Prime Positions: Inside Midfielder
Positional Development Timeline: 1-3 Seasons

Playstyle Writeup
A new fan favorite, Cam Mackenzie presents a unique opportunity to draft a player with both consistency and upside. He has the footy IQ, fast hands, and strong boot to play as a high-baseline player along with the athleticism, height, composure, and goal sense to really firm as a superstar. Playing largely as a reflection of Will Ashcroft, Mackenzie has the frame and fast hands to extract the footy from a stoppage and the burst speed to receive the ball and spear it into a forward target. His agility and composure evoke a Pendlebury sort of player, and his understanding of field position and player movements allow him to shoot off perfectly timed handpasses after drawing the opponent's attention. Mackenzie's kicking in space is superb but he needs to adjust better to contact in both marking contests and kicking. It isn't a matter of rushing himself, he just needs to build his frame up to weather contact. His goal kicking is more "clean" than "crafty", he gets himself free and finishes well but doesn't create opportunities for himself out of packs in the forward line. At half forward, his kicking allows Cam to either deliver neat little kicks into targets or go long and hammer it through himself. If we were to move off Finn as a tagger, I'd love to see Mackenzie play as a lockdown Forward and really get that experience running with the best halfbacks in the game and learning the bodywork, running patterns, and marking position while he's at it. He tends to favor hitting up a target when he should sometimes just go for home, but that's more a factor of his brilliant forward options and he rarely makes a mistake on delivery. Ultimately a high baseline, high upside player with all the tools to become a star midfielder.

Final Comparison

These two are some of my favorite players in the whole draft, They both offer a balanced midfield skillset with the versatility to play around our development schedule. Both would likely play the role CMac played this year, a half forward that might get a role through the midfield or up the wing. If I was put on the clock right now I'd be leaning toward Mackenzie, but only by the slimmest of margins. While different players, both are consistently delivering for their teams and would quickly cement themselves as mainstays through the corridor for us. Mackenzie gets the nod solely for his upside, Clark is great at the contest and provides unparalleled will but Mackenzie's agility, burst, and composure lend themselves to a potentially dominant and game-winning star. If we pick up either, I'd expect Clark ends up starting in our midfield sometime next season, while Mackenzie may need a year or two to build an AFL frame and tank before playing as a full-time mid.
Click to expand...
Great writeup, i'd add in, with the fact MacKenzie is 187cm he has a high ceiling for being able to turn into a good marking option, and as you mentioned probably just needs to get more i guess, ferocious in his attack in the air, which he doesn't lack at ground level.
 
Tomohawks said:
I'm from the same town as the Gippy boys and am mates with Coby's dad. He's a level headed kid who has just continued to improve year after year. Hasn't got the leg of his old man who was a raking left footer but still above average. Jonti I don't know at all but have been told he's a bit of Figjam, having said that I saw him make his senior local debut against strong opposition and he showed great class and link up running ability. Very slight though compared to Coby.
Click to expand...
We won't be getting Burgiel. We're the only club that hasn't spoke with him. He's shattered as well.
 
Dominic03 said:
Great writeup, i'd add in, with the fact MacKenzie is 187cm he has a high ceiling for being able to turn into a good marking option, and as you mentioned probably just needs to get more i guess, ferocious in his attack in the air, which he doesn't lack at ground level.
Click to expand...
I feel like Mackenzie needs to work on his bodywork before he becomes a forward target. His core strength is great at ground level, but he gets moved off the mark a bit too easily. Whether that's strength or technique, it can be worked on in a professional environment. He doesn't leap for marks as Clark does, he can stand tall but isn't crashing over the top of a pack. Clark's forward craft really impressed me, he knows how to nudge players under the footy and when to fly up over the top. Mackenzie has the frame to float down and make a loose defender pay for playing off him, but Clark is someone who can be a genuine target heading inside 50.
 
TDS7 said:
I feel like Mackenzie needs to work on his bodywork before he becomes a forward target. His core strength is great at ground level, but he gets moved off the mark a bit too easily. Whether that's strength or technique, it can be worked on in a professional environment. He doesn't leap for marks as Clark does, he can stand tall but isn't crashing over the top of a pack. Clark's forward craft really impressed me, he knows how to nudge players under the footy and when to fly up over the top. Mackenzie has the frame to float down and make a loose defender pay for playing off him, but Clark is someone who can be a genuine target heading inside 50.
Click to expand...
Yep, i agree, feel MacKenzie can become this tho, just probably isn't in the right environment learning wise and building his body etc.
 
Tomohawks said:
Yes, but doesn't bode well. I get it as he's the last type we need though. You'd think we'd have chatted with him if he was on our radar. Doesn't appear so.
Click to expand...
Dgb was selected by us on not much.
 
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