List Mgmt. 2022 List Management: Draft, Trade and FA

[Cobbler]

It's not that farfetched on a skills basis really

The problem is its a full preseason and then 10 weeks in the WAFL of training kind of situation, which doesn't work for someone on 500k, also doesn't work if someone goes down 5 rounds in and he is suddenly playing defense again

Also doesn’t work if you’ve never played there and have the decision making skills of a brick.

He’s done incredibly well to make something as a forward but what he actually done forward? SFA. We’re setting low bars if Logue as a forward has been a revelation.

Now Logue as a winger? It’s too funny.

 

[Joao]

I think some on here fail to remember how little some of the tall guns of the comp had done to this stage of their career. Jackson is a risk worth taking. I feel this will be a thread looked back on in a few years.

Well both sides are all in so that is a given.

I won't speak for all naysayers but I am willing to admit I think he'll be a good player, I can even see him being a great ruck, but that doesn't mean its a good idea for us to trade for him.

The issue with the draft is going to be felt in the next two to four years as all those top picks of ours hit free agency and want to get paid.

We aren't going to find a teenager in the draft at pick fifteen that will make us a better forward line before that period.

How is dropping 800k on Jackson going to help ease salary concerns? So what you are saying is we can't draft because we'll have too many good players that want to be paid? I'll let you reflect on that for a minute.

A: We don't know that, its entirely plausible to find 1st and 2nd year players that contribute forward of centre. Literally Pickett last year.
B: Why does that period even matter and how is that period not a BIGGER problem if we trade for Jackson?

How can you possibly justify trading for high salary players is a better cap management outcome than drafting players who literally have their salary fixed for the next two years.

If Jackson grows and allows us to maintain dominant midfield position all game it will make our forward line improve.

Melbourne has dominated midfield in most games this season if memory serves, including both finals and lost because their forwardline (which kicked comfortably more points than us this year with worse method, IMO) is dog****.

Midfield dominance means nothing if you don't convert to score and we do that very poorly.

 

[King Tenz]

They are not the same because I know a current gun is good, I only assume/hope that a future one is.

Rising star is a guarantee of nothing.

We don't know the price yet and moreso than trade, its the salary that's offensive to me.

Why are you writing Jackson off so quickly? One season, impacted with injury, that falls below the very high expectations that he set last season and suddenly he's a borderline spud? He's only 20 years old.

The trade is a non-issue for me now and I also think the money has been exaggerated a fair bit. A million a year? Doubt it, more like 750k, max.

 

[Dockeroo]

I think that going to the draft with pick 15 could actually be a bigger risk than bringing in Jackson.
I’d suggest that the chances of getting a player of Jackson’s quality with pick 15 are less than 10%

People need to realise the days of top 10 picks are over for freo for some time

 

[Taylor]

Well both sides are all in so that is a given.

I won't speak for all naysayers but I am willing to admit I think he'll be a good player, I can even see him being a great ruck, but that doesn't mean its a good idea for us to trade for him.


How is dropping 800k on Jackson going to help ease salary concerns? So what you are saying is we can't draft because we'll have too many good players that want to be paid? I'll let you reflect on that for a minute.

A: We don't know that, its entirely plausible to find 1st and 2nd year players that contribute forward of centre. Literally Pickett last year.
B: Why does that period even matter and how is that period not a BIGGER problem if we trade for Jackson?

How can you possibly justify trading for high salary players is a better cap management outcome than drafting players who literally have their salary fixed for the next two years.


Melbourne has dominated midfield in most games this season if memory serves, including both finals and lost because their forwardline (which kicked comfortably more points than us this year with worse method, IMO) is dog****.

Midfield dominance means nothing if you don't convert to score and we do that very poorly.

What do you think it is about their forward line that leads to them not winning games?

 

[Joao]

I won't speak for all naysayers but I am willing to admit I think he'll be a good player, I can even see him being a great ruck, but that doesn't mean its a good idea for us to trade for him.

Why are you writing Jackson off so quickly? One season, impacted with injury, that falls below the very high expectations that he set last season and suddenly he's a borderline spud? He's only 20 years old.

The trade is a non-issue for me now and I also think the money has been exaggerated a fair bit. A million a year? Doubt it, more like 750k, max.

Literally the post before yours.

I think that going to the draft with pick 15 could actually be a bigger risk than bringing in Jackson.
I’d suggest that the chances of getting a player of Jackson’s quality with pick 15 are less than 10%

People need to realise the days of top 10 picks are over for freo for some time

You can't just trade for "quality" (loose use of the term, I think potential is fair) because it is available. There is a salary cap which is finite. If you spend it on a ruck, you can't spend it elsewhere in your team.

See the Bulldogs for evidence of what happens when you just get "quality" when available without worrying about list balance. You end up playing Treloar as a "defender" and 3xAA midfielder Macrae on the wing because the quality isn't spread around the ground.

Then there is the trade cost. I would agree pick 15 is unlikely to be as good as Jackson. 2 x 15 I'll dispute you can't find a much better forward than Jackson with both. Not only that, you don't have to pay them 800k a year to be a **** forward.

What do you think it is about their forward line that leads to them not winning games?

You answer the rest of my points first, then I'll answer yours.

 

[Taylor]

Salary concerns for a player contracted beyond the iffy period and paid now before it isn't a problem. In my opinion.

Pickett is part of that forward line you don't like.

 

[Taylor]

I don't want to replace key structural players with maybe make it teenagers. That sends us backwards.

 

[Taylor]

Jackson could be the most damaging midfielder in the league, a unique point of difference that wins us games

 

[tonygeeks]

Except that is the point, we are going to pay and trade for him as if he were already that player. He's miles off it if he ever gets there.

Why ? Jackson having a down year is perfect for us price wise….. you’re getting all stressed about media hot takes that have an agenda to sell

 

[Joao]

Salary concerns for a player contracted beyond the iffy period and paid now before it isn't a problem. In my opinion.

Pickett is part of that forward line you don't like.

Jackson is getting somewhere between 5-7 years, you bet its a problem. Especially since we know clubs manage cap front and back to fit it in. It's not as if we lose that cap space if we don't trade for Jackson.

No question, and he's been ordinary a lot of this year, but he still kicked 40 last year and two out his *** last night. Exactly the sort of players you need. Those that take half chances.

I don't want to replace key structural players with maybe make it teenagers. That sends us backwards.

It won't be, it will likely be Treacy, who is a year younger taking Lobb's place.

Jackson could be the most damaging midfielder in the league, a unique point of difference that wins us games

He's a good ball winner for his size, but what else does he have? The top end mids either are quality kicks and/or kick goals. He doesn't appear to have either of those traits even if we agree the rest of his mid game is on point.

Why ? Jackson having a down year is perfect for us price wise….. you’re getting all stressed about media hot takes that have an agenda to sell

I don't think we're getting a better price though, because if you believe the figures and draft capital touted, he's getting paid and traded for as if he just came 10th in the brownlow.

Potatoes don’t win Rising Stars - unluess you are Rhys Palmer and that was because he playing in a team full of spuds at the time.
If the AFL in general rate Jackson as a 20 year old, as a kid with massive potential and the general consensus is that he is worth a couple of late 1st rounders - I’ll back the club in to do that or fold.
You obviously don’t rate Jackson and you want the club to continue with going to the draft, there are no KPF’s available this year that are going to pop from the draft and play round 1 next year or that other clubs will let go like a McDonald who in my opinion is slow and overrated.
You give me a chuckle every time I see you dislike another posters thoughts….I dislike the dislikes - makes you look like a w***er.
Sit back and relax a little.

See below.

The rest is ad hominen. If you want a civilised conversation, lets have one. If not, press the dislike and move on.

I won't speak for all naysayers but I am willing to admit I think he'll be a good player, I can even see him being a great ruck, but that doesn't mean its a good idea for us to trade for him.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Joao isn’t on an island when it comes to being weary about this trade.

His issue, and mine, is that it seems like a Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

type deal for potential.

I’d love to be proven wrong as soon as next year but there is huge bust potential here.

What if that knee is chronic?

We have a solid midfield, with 2 top 10 quality picks to come in and an ageing Mundy to go out.

Fyfe has been a non-factor all year and I actually think most of Jackson’s salary would come from there so not too fussed about the cap AS LONG AS we sign Serong to a long term deal. All of our other guns are on long deals.

Logue I’d love to stay but not for overs. I think he’s a great cultural fit and I’ve really warmed to him. His versatility is super useful as well and he’s just starting to repay the faith after some VERY interrupted seasons and giving next to nothing for a pick 8 that we’ve developed. He should be taking that into account.

Acres I couldn’t care less about. His flour bags give me the shits and he’s only been passable this year. The last two were rubbish.

Back to Jackson, he could be anything. Odds are he’ll be something. Maybe this year is an anomaly. Maybe he doesn’t love the group.

Just based on the last few games that mattered, he looked a bit ‘deer in headlights’ for me. But then he stood up in a GF last year and was a game changer.

I think the overall message is get him if he’s available but don’t pay too high a price.

 

[Joao]

If it end it up being 500k x 5 and pick 14 + 35, I'd probably agree its worth the risk. The price is too high for me as reported.

 

[salim malik]

Literally the post before yours.


You can't just trade for "quality" (loose use of the term, I think potential is fair) because it is available. There is a salary cap which is finite. If you spend it on a ruck, you can't spend it elsewhere in your team.

See the Bulldogs for evidence of what happens when you just get "quality" when available without worrying about list balance. You end up playing Treloar as a "defender" and 3xAA midfielder Macrae on the wing because the quality isn't spread around the ground.

Then there is the trade cost. I would agree pick 15 is unlikely to be as good as Jackson. 2 x 15 I'll dispute you can't find a much better forward than Jackson with both. Not only that, you don't have to pay them 800k a year to be a **** forward.


You answer the rest of my points first, then I'll answer yours.

You were adamant that Naughton would never make a key forward.
How did that go?

 

[Purple Jesus]

You were adamant that Naughton would never make a key forward.
How did that go?

Tbh, jury is still out on that too. He’s not a natural forward.

 

[Dockeroo]

Also doesn’t work if you’ve never played there and have the decision making skills of a brick.

He’s done incredibly well to make something as a forward but what he actually done forward? SFA. We’re setting low bars if Logue as a forward has been a revelation.

Now Logue as a winger? It’s too funny.

I recall you early this season openly ridiculing the idea of Logue playing forward yet a few weeks later you were eating your words.
We was far more effective that you thought he’d be on here.
I’m not saying he’d make a good winger. My thing with Logue is the combination of athleticism and power he has is in the top 1% in the AFL. So yeah, he may not be a great decision maker at times and has limitations. But if you can put a physical brute into the mix to spoil opposition game styles and plans if nothing else, it’s very valuable.
Off the top of my head this year

• we don’t beat the cats in GMHBA this year without Logue
• we don’t beat Adelaide in the season opener without logue
• he also contributed majorly to wins against Melbourne, brisbane and Carlton

 

[apuchar]

He has trained with the midfield group on the rare occasion, so it may not be that foreign to him.

 

[Cobbler]

Can we stop comparing this trade to Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

. Are posters honestly this stupid?

WCE went all in on Kelly and gave up their picks for a flag. It failed. Now they also have no youth.

We have youth up to our eyeballs. Missing a couple of early picks for 2 years will not cripple the club in any way.

Even if we get Jackson and his leg falls off we will still have years of a young group developing together.

Eagles haven’t even hit rock bottom. Fast forward 2 years and they’ve lost Hurn, Shuey, Nic Nat, McGovern, Redden, Gaff and others gone or on the decline.

In 2 years we lose Fyfe, Walters and who else?

The scenarios are poles apart.

 

[salim malik]

Tbh, jury is still out on that too. He’s not a natural forward.

Top ten and 50 odd goals, Not bad for a player who is not a natural forward.

 

[Silencer83]

Potatoes don’t win Rising Stars - unluess you are Rhys Palmer and that was because he playing in a team full of spuds at the time.

Palmer, Lewis Taylor, Stephenson probably the three who failed after their rising star.

JOM and Jesse Hogan as the underage draftees haven't become game changers for their teams.

Adam Goodes the only other player to win a Rising Star while playing ruck.

So hopefully a good sign

 

[freo_leo29]

Also doesn’t work if you’ve never played there and have the decision making skills of a brick.

He’s done incredibly well to make something as a forward but what he actually done forward? SFA. We’re setting low bars if Logue as a forward has been a revelation.

Now Logue as a winger? It’s too funny.

I wouldn't say acres has the best decision making either tbh but he has had a good year

 

[theGav56]

How many guns are there in the comp at 20 years old?

Not many.

Which of course doesn't mean he's a gun right.

 

[Joao]

Goodes would be handy, tstl.

 

[Cobbler]

I recall you early this season openly ridiculing the idea of Logue playing forward yet a few weeks later you were eating your words.
We was far more effective that you thought he’d be on here.
I’m not saying he’d make a good winger. My thing with Logue is the combination of athleticism and power he has is in the top 1% in the AFL. So yeah, he may not be a great decision maker at times and has limitations. But if you can put a physical brute into the mix to spoil opposition game styles and plans if nothing else, it’s very valuable.
Off the top of my head this year

• we don’t beat the cats in GMHBA this year without Logue
• we don’t beat Adelaide in the season opener without logue
• he also contributed majorly to wins against Melbourne, brisbane and Carlton

‘Eaten my words’ is a bit of a stretch. But I guess my words weren’t pleasant, so any change in form was going to lead to a change in tune.

I was 100% correct in my calls that our backline couldn’t contain everyone and 100% correct in that Logue was the odd man out.

Now he’s the odd man out in our forward line and is 100% out if Taberner was actually fit. Had he been reasonable? Yeah, if we lower our standards. Logue ain’t a forward. The idea of a defensive forward also makes me cringe. People forget that against Melb when we won, May went off and Petty was clearly injured. Logue forward had zero to do with that result.

The whole reason people even mention wing is because he doesn’t fit elsewhere.

If Logue is our forward on a 4 year contract then we’ve screwed up.

Can he go back and someone else move? Sure. But they’re yet to do that unless someone gets injured like Pearce did that time.

 

[theGav56]

2 late firsts for him and something coming back to us isn't the end of the world in my mind.

If that's the deal, all good. Equates to less than his original draft pick doesn't it?