Preview 2022 Rd 5 Carlton vs Port Adelaide Sunday 17th 1.40PM @ MCG - Team changes post #803

[Brighton_Diggins]

First fork in the road game folks. I'm not sure whether I under estimated Gold Coast or overrated us. Perhaps a bit of both. GC looked pretty good but geez we looked so off the boil in parts. AS a few have said the hawks game and the intensity in which it was played perhaps cost a bit. IN the end no excuses.

Vossys first test on the selection table and how he plans to tackle PA. Port definitely rolled the dice against the dees and it failed but old Kenny will have a few tricks up his sleeve with this game.

Lucky for us they looked to have lost Lycett and a def wines so if Pitto can come in and Crippa can sit it out we even up pretty well.
Saad looked bloody good against GC. He's back to his best. He's real live wire I love his intensity at the ball.
Williams as well. Looking good.

Cerra needs to switch back on and can someone mount a case for Setters and Plough?
Struggling with these two.

Dropped half our bundle against GC but can see us bouncing back here. The lid is on but we need to nullify the jungle drummers.

 

[Benga]

We can't keep playing without a third tall, Plowman in that position absolutely kills us, he can't play it. One of McGovern, Marchbank or Parks have to play at all times.

We have guys in the VFL putting their hands up which is good. Dow has been good but our midfield so far has been full. Motlop has been good but IMO may struggle with the pace of AFL and hasn't fully developed the pressure act par of his game. Stocker has had two games, one was a very big game but as a small defender there really isn't a spot there yet. Philp looks the good, I'm adamant he will make it but I would like to see him play a few more games there.

We need speed. My god do we look slow when a few quicker players come out. Would be very keen to add Motlop and Philp.

We need to give Kemp some time in the midfield and develop him there. His athletic profile would be ideal on wing.

Stocker I think needs to play a bit more midfield to see if he is ready for it however it looks like he's going to remain in defence.


Who's out of form.

Cerra - He's played one good game out of 3. His last few weeks have been trash. Supposed to be a good kick but has just butchered it. Can we put up with one more bad game if Dow keeps banging the door down? Standards.

De Koning - He's taken one good mark and looked threatening in just one game, round one. Has kicked no goals and got slaughtered in the ruck this week. He was terrible the week before against Hawthorn, not touching the ball and often getting outmarked. He's only in the side because he playing a role. We could go back to SOS in the ruck.

Plowman - He's an old fashioned lock down defender which is not what you want in a third tall defender. Third tall needs to be able to play off his man, give the key position players a chop out and take intercept marks. He's too slow and too short to be able to do that. He's not as good as our small defenders to get a gig in that role or offensive enough for that role.

Fogarty - he comes in as a forward but really is not one. He's a level below AFL level but a good VFL player.

Martin - Went out of our way to get him and he has been terrible. Can't get it, effort is not there and skills are poor as poor. Doesn't look like he wants it.

Boyd - Came on as sub so that is ok, he was better this week but I feel he's not quite up to it.

O'Brien - The offensive part of his game has got better but the defensive part of his game is completely absent.

Setterfield - He's been ok but a winger who isn't great below his knees and lacks pace is not appealing.

Wonder how Young would go in that role with McDonald and Weitering the KPDs…
Or alternatively, Weitering loose and the other two as the traditional KPD.

 

[Beyond Blue]

It appears that a growing consensus sees that:

1. The lack of intercept marking is an issue for the team ; ( ie we miss McGovern's input) and
2. Setterfield and LoB as flankers aren't a strong point for the team -

my observation is that they are both being used more as defensive numbers than not and HFF are being used as very high to cover for the defensive positioning of the flankers...

This invites the corridor kick against Carlton as the boundaries entries are more congested - but without a good intercept marking game to stop the corridor kick - the opposition has found easy entry over the top of the midfield - the Suns game highlighted the added pressure on this as they were able to dominate the contested and exit game - I doubt that the midfield will be beaten as convincingly again.

I don't think the so-called 'lack of leg speed' in the on-ball brigade is the #1 issue that has caused trouble at all - I think the problem has been plugging the corridor against uncontested centering kicks over the top.

In order to fix this I think Voss has there options:

1. wait for McGovern to come back (who knows how long this will take) and in the meantime hope that less rather than more opposition efforts succeed
2. re-deploy Weitering into an intercept marking role - which would free up oppositions #1 forward to Young
3. add height to the defensive mix to bolster the defense whilst freeing Weitering - this would mean adding McDonald (when he becomes available) to Young

I agree we have missed Gov in the interceptor role so whilst he is out injured we need to replace him with a like for like, so from what I’ve seen of the reserves games this season give Parks a go.
It’s not Plowman’s go to be an interceptor so whilst I’m not violently opposed to him being in the team, I think he needs to make way for Parks for the good of playing our preferred team structure.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Agree except I think you're being very harsh on O'Brien, friend of mine won a league BnF as an offensive winger, went to TAC Cup Western Jets off of it. It's a legitimate position that recruiters look at, so must be valued in AFL circles.

I also think you're being unfair on Boyd, looked ordinary last week but thought he was actually pretty tidy this week against the Suns.

Otherwise, great assessment. Kemp would be amazing in the midfield somewhere, have you seen how quick the bloke is???

Re Cerra, yes this week and 15 touches was poor, but 23 v Hawks was respectable, but still below his Tigs and pre season form I’ll concede. Has been off since coming back from Covid thingy, did he actually have it?

It was the Suns mids that towelled us up last year, it was really disappointing to see it happen again this week, I thought with fitter Crippa, improved MK and additions of Cerra and Hewett we could at least match them this time around. Pitto absence was huge, I’m a believer now.

 

[Shambolic]

Does anyone feel like Weiters has been told to just stop an opponent as distinct from last year being dominant?

Wasted an A grader on the wonderful but old Casboult

 

[marcmurphy3]

Does anyone feel like Weiters has been told to just stop an opponent as distinct from last year being dominant?

Wasted an A grader on the wonderful but old Casboult

Yep. Only 5 intercept marks for the year and 0 contested marks. We need him back intercepting even with McGovern in the side.

 

[AB_Blue]

Wonder how Young would go in that role with McDonald and Weitering the KPDs…
Or alternatively, Weitering loose and the other two as the traditional KPD.

Wieters can definitely intercept mark

Young to Marshall, Omac to Geordadies?


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[Burgers45]

Otherwise, great assessment. Kemp would be amazing in the midfield somewhere, have you seen how quick the bloke is???

Kemp has been reasonable in the two's to date without a "must pick me game". Is taking a while revovering from his ACL knee injury and missing games last covid year. Hasn't acculumated a lot of the ball, but I noticed when he does, it is usually a quality disposal benefitting the team. With continued improvement & perserverence, I'm confident he will develop into a quality senior player this year

 

[Schoonerman]

Lycett dislocated his shoulder. Might be Ladhams instead.

Ladhams ain’t there..

 

[myblueroan]

What they said: Weitering looking ahead

A summary of Jacob Weitering's press conference.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Kemp has been reasonable in the two's to date without a "must pick me game". Is taking a while revovering from his ACL knee injury and missing games last covid year. Hasn't acculumated a lot of the ball, but I noticed when he does, it is usually a quality disposal benefitting the team. With continued improvement & perserverence, I'm confident he will develop into a quality senior player this year

Yeah, I agree! I should've mentioned that I meant later in the year, not right now. He has flashes of brilliance and I reckon he'll come along nicely.

 

[Mondyboy]

Kemp has been reasonable in the two's to date without a "must pick me game". Is taking a while revovering from his ACL knee injury and missing games last covid year. Hasn't acculumated a lot of the ball, but I noticed when he does, it is usually a quality disposal benefitting the team. With continued improvement & perserverence, I'm confident he will develop into a quality senior player this year

His hand balling in the last quarter in the VFL was Diesel levels slick. Set up some goals with it. He’s playing up forward but ends up further up the ground which is why he isn’t kicking goals.


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[GordonBlue]

For me Pitto is more important than Cripps coming back... but I wouldn't complain with Cripps playing.

 

[thylacine60]

With underdone Robbie Gray to get 35 and 5 goals

And Peter Burgoyne to nail it after the bell. Why does my long-term memory cherish only shit things, ffs?

 

[RAPPA]

Kemp has been reasonable in the two's to date without a "must pick me game". Is taking a while revovering from his ACL knee injury and missing games last covid year. Hasn't acculumated a lot of the ball, but I noticed when he does, it is usually a quality disposal benefitting the team. With continued improvement & perserverence, I'm confident he will develop into a quality senior player this year

Not every player should have to dominate the twos before getting a call up. Well, that doesn't sound right. What I mean to say is that some players aren't going to tear it up in the twos week in, week out, and they will still thrive when playing in the seniors.

 

[RAPPA]

And Peter Burgoyne to nail it after the bell. Why does my long-term memory cherish only shit things, ffs?

I still remember crying with my face embedded in a mattress when that happened.

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

For mine - Doc or Weiters should play the intercept role this week - leaning towards Weiters given there'll be no Dixon. Weiters played it at times against Hawthorn (including the game saving mark) and went well. Parkesy could do it but I feel maybe a bit slow. Marchy would be great but..........

 

[thylacine60]

All we had to do was bury it from the bounce for 30 seconds. But oh no, not us.....

 

[gbatman]

Wonder how Young would go in that role with McDonald and Weitering the KPDs…
Or alternatively, Weitering loose and the other two as the traditional KPD.

I was wondering that. Ideally the third tall defender needs to be quick, that way they can play off their man a bit but have that closing speed to make the contest if it doesn't go straight to them. McGovern was so idea for that role, it's a shame he's injured again.

Young to me seems too slow and I would prefer someone better below their knees. But he or Weitering would be better than Plowman who offers nothing in that role.

Young to me is your old fashion lock down defender, don't try and be too clever, just play tight to the biggest forward and beat them.

 

[Blues_Man]

Out: Cripps (inj), Fogarty, Boyd, Young
In: Stocker, Durdin, Pittonet, McDonald

Want to bring in Dow but not sure who else comes out. Also don't think we will see the 5 or so unforced changes some people are mentioning

Martin moves to the SUB position.

Dow is a certainty to come in

 

[Blues_Man]

So much went wrong that's completely out of the control of the first ruck that you can't possibly make a fair conclusion about either setup.

I don't think Pittonet would have done well against Witts either, despite the apparent inside word from the Gold Coast camp. In fact, I'm not sure any ruck we've picked in the last 10 years has done well against him in terms of taps.

Losing Cripps was a massive blow, and a failure to adapt around both that and Gold Coast's spread from the contest was telling.

I am of the opinion that if Pitto played, it would have made a huge difference

 

[gbatman]

It appears that a growing consensus sees that:

1. The lack of intercept marking is an issue for the team ; ( ie we miss McGovern's input) and
2. Setterfield and LoB as flankers aren't a strong point for the team -

my observation is that they are both being used more as defensive numbers than not and HFF are being used as very high to cover for the defensive positioning of the flankers...

This invites the corridor kick against Carlton as the boundaries entries are more congested - but without a good intercept marking game to stop the corridor kick - the opposition has found easy entry over the top of the midfield - the Suns game highlighted the added pressure on this as they were able to dominate the contested and exit game - I doubt that the midfield will be beaten as convincingly again.

I don't think the so-called 'lack of leg speed' in the on-ball brigade is the #1 issue that has caused trouble at all - I think the problem has been plugging the corridor against uncontested centering kicks over the top.

In order to fix this I think Voss has there options:

1. wait for McGovern to come back (who knows how long this will take) and in the meantime hope that less rather than more opposition efforts succeed
2. re-deploy Weitering into an intercept marking role - which would free up oppositions #1 forward to Young
3. add height to the defensive mix to bolster the defense whilst freeing Weitering - this would mean adding McDonald (when he becomes available) to Young

Totally agree.

A good defence forces the opposition wide and slows them down. The amount of play up the center and fast play from Hawthorn and The Gold Coast has exposed a massive weakness in our defence.

To be honest I would like to see us man the middle of the ground up more and protect against the switch and allow them to have the short kick wide. We need to get the opposition going boundary more. Then we can slow them up and hem them in and let the game become contested.

Even if we have to defend the ball further up the field such as have our squeeze at half back that is fine. We appear to be trying to squeeze the opposition around the middle of the ground and they are bypassing that too easily.

A lot of uncontested ball movement up the middle of the ground is killing us, it will kill any team. Our defensive structures just aren't good enough.

1. Slow down opposition ball movement.
2. Keep opposition ball movement wide.
3. Get some decent intercepting height back into defence.

That will stop us running out of legs and being scored heavily against.

There are issues at stoppages, we were keen on movement through the stoppages. Hawthorn picked up on that and put blocks on, turned it into a wrestle, GCS followed suite. So that's no longer working so we need to have another tactic here.

 

[gbatman]

Agree except I think you're being very harsh on O'Brien, friend of mine won a league BnF as an offensive winger, went to TAC Cup Western Jets off of it. It's a legitimate position that recruiters look at, so must be valued in AFL circles.

I also think you're being unfair on Boyd, looked ordinary last week but thought he was actually pretty tidy this week against the Suns.

Otherwise, great assessment. Kemp would be amazing in the midfield somewhere, have you seen how quick the bloke is???

It's the area of the game he needs to work on. If O'Brien gets the chasing pressure and tackling a little better we will be a better side for it.

Boyd was tidy but we have better players.

I'd be developing Kemp as a Cripps/Kenney replacement or wingman. Need to try him in both areas to see what he is good at. He certainly has some ability at stoppages. Athletically he would be ideal as a wingman, I am thinking on an upgrade to Setterfield who is bloody slow.

 

[The Bighouse]

Agree, he is really an ideal wingman. Carroll and Philp also excellent options, nice to know we have the depth in this area, the wings can be fixed.

Unfort I’ve only seen Philp fumble when playing, again on the w/end but it could have been a bit of rust on the return. Kicking goals at least, not f not the cleanest.

There were some good clips of him when the scrimmages were being played in 2020.

 

[JustaBattler]

Totally agree.

A good defence forces the opposition wide and slows them down. The amount of play up the center and fast play from Hawthorn and The Gold Coast has exposed a massive weakness in our defence.

To be honest I would like to see us man the middle of the ground up more and protect against the switch and allow them to have the short kick wide. We need to get the opposition going boundary more. Then we can slow them up and hem them in and let the game become contested.

Even if we have to defend the ball further up the field such as have our squeeze at half back that is fine. We appear to be trying to squeeze the opposition around the middle of the ground and they are bypassing that too easily.

A lot of uncontested ball movement up the middle of the ground is killing us, it will kill any team. Our defensive structures just aren't good enough.

1. Slow down opposition ball movement.
2. Keep opposition ball movement wide.
3. Get some decent intercepting height back into defence.

That will stop us running out of legs and being scored heavily against.

There are issues at stoppages, we were keen on movement through the stoppages. Hawthorn picked up on that and put blocks on, turned it into a wrestle, GCS followed suite. So that's no longer working so we need to have another tactic here.

Yes most teams seem to want to stack the corridor and in fact stack the corridor and one side of the field trying to force play into a certain limited direction.

As you say - it is the uncontested ball movement that has hurt the most - and NONE of that is on the on ball brigade - it is all about the ineffectiveness of Carlton outside players from HFF and Flank - Martin and Fisher are serious weak links as far as high half forward play goes - and pretty much absent as far as forward defensive pressure goes.