List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part I

[BrutThough]

I think he's another casualty of the work rate over everything else mantra at the club. You can't ask 21 players to work their arses off and then have a golden child on the outside who has different rules. Narkle's Helmet has been big on needing a game plan that is about more than hard work. Other sides have moved beyond that and prefer strategy and system over grunt. Even the best sides have had grunt but along side structure. Ross had us playing very systems driven footy with a fundamental work rate behind it as does Sydney. We seem to be all out effort but not much finesse or game plan this year.

Of course our game plan is more than just working hard.

 

[Yawkey way]

Us, straight swap with Hill. He would be on 500k maybe, so an extra 400 in the kick to get DeGoey and another FA, a fix to the FB position and still have a full hand of picks

Yeah and pigs might fly, that’s you only get one Allan bond level if north fell for that. Maybe Carlton, they’d be happy to put there first on the table but don’t have a lot north would want that they can afford to loose. Richmond are getting the staggers and have gibcus. Bulldogs would surely be all over him and probably have the players and picks to pull it off.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Via Sam Edmund on SEN

The St Kilda wingman has endured an indifferent season and has been reported to be open to a move to a fourth AFL club.

Edmund suggests that’s on the back of sections of the playing group losing trust in Hill’s on-field abilities, but any potential move is complicated by Hill’s large contract.

“Bradley Hill has been a regular topic of conversation at St Kilda for several weeks now, at leadership meetings, at list management meetings … the feeling among some sections of that playing group is that they have, in an on-field sense, lost a bit of trust and faith in Bradley Hill, and that feeling might now be mutual from the player,” he added.

Honestly good on the players if true. Being told to spoon feed him the ball whenever possible to get him into form only to see him shirk every contest in front of him.

I was hyped when we got Hill, thought he was exactly what we needed. Turns out that was way off the mark

 

[phantom13]

Unless Battle becomes like a Steven May type, I can't see that backline being a premiership 1

Why? We actually need Coff to develop into Haynes and model more on the GWS backline of a few years ago if were doing it with our cattle.

 

[Yawkey way]

What an amazing take on having a review.

We’re not doing it because of a great season, clearly the presidents expectations haven’t been met. So given that how would you interpret the review.

 

[John2010362340]

Via Sam Edmund on SEN

The St Kilda wingman has endured an indifferent season and has been reported to be open to a move to a fourth AFL club.

Edmund suggests that’s on the back of sections of the playing group losing trust in Hill’s on-field abilities, but any potential move is complicated by Hill’s large contract.

“Bradley Hill has been a regular topic of conversation at St Kilda for several weeks now, at leadership meetings, at list management meetings … the feeling among some sections of that playing group is that they have, in an on-field sense, lost a bit of trust and faith in Bradley Hill, and that feeling might now be mutual from the player,” he added.

Honestly good on the players if true. Being told to spoon feed him the ball whenever possible to get him into form only to see him shirk every contest in front of him.

I was hyped when we got Hill, thought he was exactly what we needed. Turns out that was way off the mark

Battle burned him a couple times early on Sunday..

 

[phantom13]

Via Sam Edmund on SEN

The St Kilda wingman has endured an indifferent season and has been reported to be open to a move to a fourth AFL club.

Edmund suggests that’s on the back of sections of the playing group losing trust in Hill’s on-field abilities, but any potential move is complicated by Hill’s large contract.

“Bradley Hill has been a regular topic of conversation at St Kilda for several weeks now, at leadership meetings, at list management meetings … the feeling among some sections of that playing group is that they have, in an on-field sense, lost a bit of trust and faith in Bradley Hill, and that feeling might now be mutual from the player,” he added.

Honestly good on the players if true. Being told to spoon feed him the ball whenever possible to get him into form only to see him shirk every contest in front of him.

I was hyped when we got Hill, thought he was exactly what we needed. Turns out that was way off the mark

I made the point maybe last year that Ratts over the top defence of his poor games as being everyone BUT Hills fault would be an issue within the playing group at some point, so this doesnt shock me.

Im not gonna pile on Hill except to say that i was never a fan but it seems certain that its best for everyone, Hill included, if hes moved on now.

 

[MonsterEatsPilot]

I'm negative for a reason every year we are back there hoping that they don't sell off our good players and don't get the recruitment wrong.

I agree, we need to plan s**t. I'm pissed off because we've been rebuilding since 2011 and still have nothing to show for it and have to trust the same people to start reversing the way they've done things to get us where we are now.

I'm happy to move on their mistakes but trying to sell us their patch jobs as a positive to the fans just makes me hate them a little bit more.

Sandringham had one of the best pools of young talent in years and we literally ignored them for a guy with high go home factor. We don't even seem to use outside run in the way we set up. It was a mystifying then and worse seeing as we lose a year of development and potentially down grade his pick even. It's a stuff up.

This is the first time I've seen references to Nas heading back to SA - is there anything more to this than blind speculation?

 

[Captain Paddy]

I made the point maybe last year that Ratts over the top defence of his poor games as being everyone BUT Hills fault would be an issue within the playing group at some point, so this doesnt shock me.

Im not gonna pile on Hill except to say that i was never a fan but it seems certain that its best for everyone, Hill included, if hes moved on now.

Couldn’t agree more. It was always about how poorly the other players gave it to him or how we missed him when he was on.

At some point when you’re on 900 clams and a senior player you just need to get after it yourself.

 

[my name was taken]

Of course our game plan is more than just working hard.

Well technically yes but it needs way too much work imo.

Can't ignore the fact that we were bottom 4 for points scored!

Our structure relied on flooding the back half waiting for a turnover then sprinting forward to help the next contest or get over the back. if they didn't make it there it was usually a 1v2 or 3 scenario time and time again. That's a workhorse game plan for sure.

 

[AirWinmar]

Why? We actually need Coff to develop into Haynes and model more on the GWS backline of a few years ago if were doing it with our cattle.

In my view we need 1 genuine key defender unless Battle can become that. Without that I think we are too vulnerable down back against the very top teams to have a premiership defence. 100% agree on Coff - can certainly be that Haynes type. Wilkie or Battle if freed up could be a Stewart type.

 

[gringo2011]

Unless Battle becomes like a Steven May type, I can't see that backline being a premiership 1

You don't know until they play some finals. A lot of reputations are made in September. Battle came on heaps this year and still young. He's really only played 2 proper seasons in his best spot. His stats read really well and he had a massive year. Howard is still young but went backwards this year. Probably could be upgraded though.

Wilkie is a lot like Dylan Grimes in that he can play on those slippery types, talls, smalls etc. The best defences are still a zone defences with players who work for each other. Melbourne can have two or three guys who can pick off marks because their wings gets back to block and fill holes and they all work in a common purpose.

Josh Battle and Alex Rance AFL Stats Comparison

Josh Battle and Alex Rance AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Dylan Grimes and Callum Wilkie AFL Stats Comparison

Dylan Grimes and Callum Wilkie AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

What?
Premo is like a classy small forward.
You’re more a 2010 Stevie baker in the back pocket.

Can you imagine Bakes trying to come up with Gringo-like analogies?

 

[#gosaintas]

Wilkie would be one of the slowest players on the list.

He has just made the All-Australian squad and spent the year beating other All-Australian squad tall forwards in Curnow, Cameron, Walker, plus players who made in it in the past such as Riewoldt, Franklin, Darling and Gunston.

What more does he need to do to be considered a KPD?

can play taller or smaller

as he's proved before

don't need both Webster and paton

 

[BrutThough]

Well technically yes but it needs way too much work imo.

Can't ignore the fact that we were bottom 4 for points scored!

Our structure relied on flooding the back half waiting for a turnover then sprinting forward to help the next contest or get over the back. if they didn't make it there it was usually a 1v2 or 3 scenario time and time again. That's a workhorse game plan for sure.

I didn't say our game plan doesn't need work. But it is nonsense to say it is just 'work hard guys' and nothing else.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah and pigs might fly, that’s you only get one Allan bond level if north fell for that. Maybe Carlton, they’d be happy to put there first on the table but don’t have a lot north would want that they can afford to loose. Richmond are getting the staggers and have gibcus. Bulldogs would surely be all over him and probably have the players and picks to pull it off.

The Dogs cap is super tight. I think he'd cost a fortune to lure away.

 

[phantom13]

In my view we need 1 genuine key defender unless Battle can become that. Without that I think we are too vulnerable down back against the very top teams to have a premiership defence. 100% agree on Coff - can certainly be that Haynes type. Wilkie or Battle if freed up could be a Stewart type.

I dont really agree but to each their own.

Howard fullback, Battle CHB as the "lock down" key position defenders.

The best trait that Battle has is he is properly scrappy, he fights, hes tough and he plays above his height.

Wilkie as the third tall frees him up to play as an interceptor as well.

If Coff comes back as good as we thought he might then that backline is a pretty solid line.

 

[Fehring]

Rumours are that McKay is gettable.

Said a few weeks ago I'd love to get him. You always figure a North player is gettable...

Yeah, figured as much. He's a gun but you don't give them away cheap. If Clarko was up for letting him walk you imagine that he'd want a lot coming back.

Are we looking at any other tall backs? I actually think our backline is the least of our worries. A bit more quality and depth through the centre and find a way to get the forward line playing to it's strengths. Transition between lines sill looks all over the shop and the game plan sucks to watch and isn't winning us games.

Most of our issues look like coaching ones IMO.

Late in the season, our mids often dominated, which I reckon covered up shortcomings in our defence. I think part of it is gameplan, but I also think part of it is personnel. McKay would make us much stronger in defence. Then we need to man up and get rid of one of Paton or Webster. They are both best 22, but we can only afford to play one.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Unless Battle becomes like a Steven May type, I can't see that backline being a premiership 1

He might be capable of it, but we’d need to play the same system to allow him to play the May sweeper role.

May is elite partly due to his size/strength/speed… but also because Melbournes system allow him to use them

 

[gringo2011]

I didn't say our game plan doesn't need work. But it is nonsense to say it is just 'work hard guys' and nothing else.

That may be a bit hyperbolic but we seem to be a bit old fashioned in that regard. Lots of clubs have moved towards faster ball use and system to free up players that includes blocking and isolating. We want to control ball movement and have every player go at 100% effort to hold their spot.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Us, straight swap with Hill. He would be on 500k maybe, so an extra 400 in the kick to get DeGoey and another FA, a fix to the FB position and still have a full hand of picks

This.
I'd be wanting a late pick too. 54 l think it was. Anything we can throw to the Brisbanes.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Of course our game plan is more than just working hard.

Such as???

 

[ScrappyDo]

Via Sam Edmund on SEN

The St Kilda wingman has endured an indifferent season and has been reported to be open to a move to a fourth AFL club.

Edmund suggests that’s on the back of sections of the playing group losing trust in Hill’s on-field abilities, but any potential move is complicated by Hill’s large contract.

“Bradley Hill has been a regular topic of conversation at St Kilda for several weeks now, at leadership meetings, at list management meetings … the feeling among some sections of that playing group is that they have, in an on-field sense, lost a bit of trust and faith in Bradley Hill, and that feeling might now be mutual from the player,” he added.

Honestly good on the players if true. Being told to spoon feed him the ball whenever possible to get him into form only to see him shirk every contest in front of him.

I was hyped when we got Hill, thought he was exactly what we needed. Turns out that was way off the mark

Turns out he's not a defender.

 

[stfan]

How about we don't go after De Goey because he's a dickhead and a f**k up?

We passed on Petracca because Trout thought he had a big ego and a bad attitude. How did that decision pass the test of time?

 

[gringo2011]

Said a few weeks ago I'd love to get him. You always figure a North player is gettable...

Late in the season, our mids often dominated, which I reckon covered up shortcomings in our defence. I think part of it is gameplan, but I also think part of it is personnel. McKay would make us much stronger in defence. Then we need to man up and get rid of one of Paton or Webster. They are both best 22, but we can only afford to play one.

One thing I hope Noble looks at is our appalling skills. A preseason with the footies would make even our abysmal game plan at least feasible. Hire the best skills coaches we can get our hands on and train them in tight, running into space to open the ground up, kicking to drop that ball out in front instead of on heads etc.

I reckon it's one of the areas that makes us look a long way off and not unfixable quickly if you look at Melbourne. Our defence seems to hold the ball up inside defensive 50 until we decide it's time to turn the ball over again at the moment.