List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[stavro#4]

Gram is a certified *******, his issues were clear as day, once the club realised what was happening they did the right thing and said see ya.

As for Montagna and Milne, from what I remember about their case Montagna didn't do anything wrong, he was the just the person that one of the two women thought she was hooking up with, it was Milne who was accused of pretending to be Montagna or something like that? But I don't think that ever really got clarified, last I heard the rape charges were dropped but he was found guilty of lesser charges. If Milne did deliberately trick her into thinking he was someone else to have sex with her than yeah he's a piece of s**t too and I wouldn't want him at the club.

You think Gram didn’t have priors and the club just woke up one day to his latest indiscretion and thought - bye Jason.

The bloke was pumping a stunner from my high school when she was 16/17 (07/08)

He was doing a wide range of substances during his playing day with us too.

So no, they didn’t just say seeya. For a long time they tolerated this type of behaviour.

Which is why it’s rich for our fans to turn their noses up at JDG behaviour.

Fair dinkum, thinking we are in a position to pretend we are better or have better morals. Some of the shit that we supported and defended - did a lot worse then JDG.

It’s why we shouldn’t be drawing battle lines over signing him because of his choices outside of football. Clearly the club aren’t.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I might be wrong on this but I believe that the AFLPA don't allow behavioral (or any other punitive) clauses into the standard player contract.
Player expectations and punishments are agreed league wide between the AFLPA, the clubs and the AFL.
You write in the players name, the money and the end date. It's a pretty basic contract:
Standard Playing Contract

I reckon the pies might just be softening up the support base by saying that DeGoey won't commit to meeting their standards.
I remember journalists saying that Collingwood couldn't match the Saints offer due to commitments like the Grundy deal being in place. Well the Grundy deal is still in place and they're performing tweet placements to say that they've matched both the dollars and years now.
Maybe, like every other free agent in history that hasn't signed by the end of the season, JDG has been gone for months and Collingwood are managing the narrative to ensure that the supporter base can find the positive angle.

There's a Code of Conduct that players need to sign in addition to the Standard Contract. Can vary from club to club and I suspect that in De Goeys case Collingwood are adding clauses to the Code of Conduct which is already covers of most things.

The problem for De Goey I suspect is that the Bali stuff was a pretty much a media beat up (the woman involved backed De Goey) yet the Pies hung him out to dry and withdrew his contract offer.

So its got me beat how they can write clauses that De Goey would sign, that holds him to certain standards, but also doesn't allow the Pies to withdraw his contract the next time there's any sort of media kerfuffle about his "behaviour".

Here's the standard Template for all AFL and affiliated clubs

CLUB XXX PLAYER AND OFFICIALS CODE OF CONDUCT ​

CLUB XXX Players and Official Code of Conduct is in place to ensure football is a positive and enjoyable for everyone. All players are expected to abide by the Code of Conduct.

Each Player and Official must:

Not bring the game of Australian Football, the AFL, or the League or the Club into disrepute;

Participate in Competition Matches in accordance with the Laws of Australian Football;

Respect the spirit of the Laws of Australian Football and fair play, and behave accordingly;

Display and foster respect for Umpires, opponents, Coaches, administrators, Officials, parents and spectators;

Never argue with or dispute a decision of an Official or Umpire. If a Participant disagrees with a decision, they should deal with their dispute in accordance with the relevant Rules, Regulations, Policies and Determinations;

Control their emotions, and not engage in verbal abuse of or swearing at or in the vicinity of others, sledging Players and/or Coaches or behaviour that deliberately distracts or provokes an opponent;

Comply with the AFL and LEAGUE XXX Rules and Regulations including the National Member Protection Policy, the League By-Laws and this Code of Conduct;

Never engage in any type of violence either on or off the field;

Contribute to a safe sporting environment and respectful culture which is accepting of individual differences, and behave accordingly;

Cooperate with their Club Officials, Coaches and team-mates;

Participate for their own enjoyment and benefit and for the enjoyment and benefit of their teammates, Coaches and Club Officials;

Comply with and observe the AFL Vilification and Discrimination Policy including respecting the rights, dignity and worth of all participants regardless of gender, ability, sexual orientation, cultural background or religion;

Not engage in conduct that is, unethical, unbecoming or likely to cause harm to the reputation of the Participant or the Club;

Not take part in any form of bullying including via the use of social media;

Not make or post inappropriate, offensive or discriminatory comments in public, including via social media, about Players, Clubs, Umpires, Officials, the AFL, or the League. Social media includes, but is not limited to, email, instant messaging, text messages, phone messages, digital images, website postings (including social media such as, but not limited to Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, websites and blogs) and;

Use appropriately the facilities and equipment made available for administration, coaching, training, Competition Matches and events, including facilities provided by the opposing teams;

I, <INSERT YOUR NAME> have read and understood the policy and will abide by it as a member of CLUB XXX.

Signature:

 

[Yawkey way]

I cant believe i just read what you wrote , so players don't like big games and would prefer to come to a club with no expectations , OMG

Baroness von blixen couldn’t tell a better story. Making a late charge to rival the norf board.

 

[stavro#4]

Jesus Christ that collingwood board is even thicker then I anticipated.

Kindly point out to them that by matching our offer. They match the no behavioural clause.

“So we force you to trade, 2 first round picks”.

Gents, he clearly wants to stay - hence the issue with the behavioural clause. If you match - he can stay at the pies on more money and no clause.

“If he accepts - he wants to leave. 2 first round picks”

Next genius, “we match the offer - then include the behaviour clause”

 

[Munga]

There's a Code of Conduct that players need to sign in addition to the Standard Contract. Can vary from club to club and I suspect that in De Goeys case Collingwood are adding clauses to the Code of Conduct which is already covers of most things.

The problem for De Goey I suspect is that the Bali stuff was a pretty much a media beat up (the woman involved backed De Goey) yet the Pies hung him out to dry and withdrew his contract offer.

So its got me beat how they can write clauses that De Goey would sign, that holds him to certain standards, but also doesn't allow the Pies to withdraw his contract the next time there's any sort of media kerfuffle about his "behaviour".

Here's the standard Template for all AFL and affiliated clubs

CLUB XXX PLAYER AND OFFICIALS CODE OF CONDUCT ​

CLUB XXX Players and Official Code of Conduct is in place to ensure football is a positive and enjoyable for everyone. All players are expected to abide by the Code of Conduct.

Each Player and Official must:

Not bring the game of Australian Football, the AFL, or the League or the Club into disrepute;

Participate in Competition Matches in accordance with the Laws of Australian Football;

Respect the spirit of the Laws of Australian Football and fair play, and behave accordingly;

Display and foster respect for Umpires, opponents, Coaches, administrators, Officials, parents and spectators;

Never argue with or dispute a decision of an Official or Umpire. If a Participant disagrees with a decision, they should deal with their dispute in accordance with the relevant Rules, Regulations, Policies and Determinations;

Control their emotions, and not engage in verbal abuse of or swearing at or in the vicinity of others, sledging Players and/or Coaches or behaviour that deliberately distracts or provokes an opponent;

Comply with the AFL and LEAGUE XXX Rules and Regulations including the National Member Protection Policy, the League By-Laws and this Code of Conduct;

Never engage in any type of violence either on or off the field;

Contribute to a safe sporting environment and respectful culture which is accepting of individual differences, and behave accordingly;

Cooperate with their Club Officials, Coaches and team-mates;

Participate for their own enjoyment and benefit and for the enjoyment and benefit of their teammates, Coaches and Club Officials;

Comply with and observe the AFL Vilification and Discrimination Policy including respecting the rights, dignity and worth of all participants regardless of gender, ability, sexual orientation, cultural background or religion;

Not engage in conduct that is, unethical, unbecoming or likely to cause harm to the reputation of the Participant or the Club;

Not take part in any form of bullying including via the use of social media;

Not make or post inappropriate, offensive or discriminatory comments in public, including via social media, about Players, Clubs, Umpires, Officials, the AFL, or the League. Social media includes, but is not limited to, email, instant messaging, text messages, phone messages, digital images, website postings (including social media such as, but not limited to Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, websites and blogs) and;

Use appropriately the facilities and equipment made available for administration, coaching, training, Competition Matches and events, including facilities provided by the opposing teams;

I, <INSERT YOUR NAME> have read and understood the policy and will abide by it as a member of CLUB XXX.

Signature:

Most of the players who signed that would be dismissed in their first month haha.

 

[Hayes4PM]

You think Gram didn’t have priors and the club just woke up one day to his latest indiscretion and thought - bye Jason.

The bloke was pumping a stunner from my high school when she was 16/17 (07/08)

He was doing a wide range of substances during his playing day with us too.

So no, they didn’t just say seeya. For a long time they tolerated this type of behaviour.

Which is why it’s rich for our fans to turn their noses up at JDG behaviour.

Fair dinkum, thinking we are in a position to pretend we are better or have better morals. Some of the s**t that we supported and defended - did a lot worse then JDG.

It’s why we shouldn’t be drawing battle lines over signing him because of his choices outside of football. Clearly the club aren’t.

I'd rather support a middle of the ladder club with some good wins but patchy form and not regularly make finals than support a club with a bunch of Jason Gram/Jake Stringer types grooming high school girls and stalking women and getting regular finals appearances. What's the point in winning if it's made up of people who are grubs?

There's obviously a scale and varying degrees to all this, De Goey having mid season footage of him groping that chick in Bali out at a restaurant, doesn't seem like the end of the world as it sounded like they were hooking up over there (?). That's more just dumb behaviour, from him to have his mates film something like that and share it, he should know by now that will be scrutinised. It's more the repeated drinking and getting himself into trouble, the lying to Collingwood about getting into a drunken brawl and claiming his dog bit his hand and the charges over in the US that got downgraded.

For me there's enough to see that this is his character and he is not intending to change it, what are the odds in his next 5 years (the length supposedly us and Collingwood are offering) he ends up facing more serious charges? I reckon pretty decent. Just a high risk move that I wouldn't want to take for the club and I don't really want dickheads like that at the club.

 

[stavro#4]

I'd rather support a middle of the ladder club with some good wins but patchy form and not regularly make finals than support a club with a bunch of Jason Gram/Jake Stringer types grooming high school girls and stalking women and getting regular finals appearances. What's the point in winning if it's made up of people who are grubs?

There's obviously a scale and varying degrees to all this, De Goey having mid season footage of him groping that chick in Bali out at a restaurant, doesn't seem like the end of the world as it sounded like they were hooking up over there (?). That's more just dumb behaviour, from him to have his mates film something like that and share it, he should know by now that will be scrutinised. It's more the repeated drinking and getting himself into trouble, the lying to Collingwood about getting into a drunken brawl and claiming his dog bit his hand and the charges over in the US that got downgraded.

For me there's enough to see that this is his character and he is not intending to change it, what are the odds in his next 5 years (the length supposedly us and Collingwood are offering) he ends up facing more serious charges? I reckon pretty decent. Just a high risk move that I wouldn't want to take for the club and I don't really want dickheads like that at the club.

Each to their own.

I’d rather support a football club that wins - as that is what I’m paying to hopefully watch.

Watching a successful product as opposed to watching them lose because we are against players who would change that situation, Because of trouble off the field - We might as well fold.

 

[bird_man]

Most Pies fans on the main board seem to be over DeGoey and happy for him to leave.

To be honest I'd have enough of him by now. He seems to shop himself around every time his contract is up.

 

[Munga]

Jesus Christ that collingwood board is even thicker then I anticipated.

Kindly point out to them that by matching our offer. They match the no behavioural clause.

“So we force you to trade, 2 first round picks”.

Gents, he clearly wants to stay - hence the issue with the behavioural clause. If you match - he can stay at the pies on more money and no clause.

“If he accepts - he wants to leave. 2 first round picks”

Next genius, “we match the offer - then include the behaviour clause”

I don't understand how the media reports of a new contract offer from the Pies, is this not just matching our FA offer? How can they make the matching offer worse with that clause? Also, are they allowed to better our offer in an attempt to make him stay? Is it not compulsory for the Pies to match our offer like for like? Confusing, and I'm not even looking at a trade yet haha.

 

[SteeleSaints]

People need to get past the idea that all AFL players are prima donas and dont dable. Very few are!

Posters would be surprised with the actions of our and Bulldogs current players at Josh Bruce

17

Josh Bruce

Age

32

Ht

198cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

90.4

1star

D

8.9

2star

K

3.5

1star

HB

5.4

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

90.4

2star

D

11.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

's wedding. What was even more stupid was they allowed themselves to be videod.

 

[snails13]

Essendon forum are saying Bowes has knocked back their approach

 

[stavro#4]

I don't understand how the media reports of a new contract offer from the Pies, is this not just matching our FA offer? How can they make the matching offer worse with that clause? Also, are they allowed to better our offer in an attempt to make him stay? Is it not compulsory for the Pies to match our offer like for like? Confusing, and I'm not even looking at a trade yet haha.

Collingwood can make any offer up until next Friday (start of free agency)

They have apparently offered a 5th year in response to our 4 year offer.

THE ISSUE - is that the pies have a behaviour clause that must be met to protect them but to also trigger the remaining 3 seasons of JDGs pies contract.

Our offer apparently doesn’t have this clause and has slightly more money per year.

So if collingwood matched our offer - if JDG accepted it. They would have to honour our terms of years and dollars + no behaviour clause. Which defeats the purpose of offering the clause in the first place - which is clearly the sticking point.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I don't understand how the media reports of a new contract offer from the Pies, is this not just matching our FA offer? How can they make the matching offer worse with that clause? Also, are they allowed to better our offer in an attempt to make him stay? Is it not compulsory for the Pies to match our offer like for like? Confusing, and I'm not even looking at a trade yet haha.

The filth are simply putting public pressure on him to re-sign.

Once free agency officially opens, we can submit our first & final offer that the filth can decide to match or not match. They have to either match our offer or beat it like for like.

If they do match it, then its up to DeGoey & StK what happens. It can become a trade discussion (highly unlikely) or JDG can either re-sign with them or (even more unlikely) decide to go to Norf in the PSD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SaintJunior]

Essendon forum are saying Bowes has knocked back their approach

Scared of needles apparently

 

[gringo2011]

You think Gram didn’t have priors and the club just woke up one day to his latest indiscretion and thought - bye Jason.

The bloke was pumping a stunner from my high school when she was 16/17 (07/08)

He was doing a wide range of substances during his playing day with us too.

So no, they didn’t just say seeya. For a long time they tolerated this type of behaviour.

Which is why it’s rich for our fans to turn their noses up at JDG behaviour.

Fair dinkum, thinking we are in a position to pretend we are better or have better morals. Some of the s**t that we supported and defended - did a lot worse then JDG.

It’s why we shouldn’t be drawing battle lines over signing him because of his choices outside of football. Clearly the club aren’t.

So the club aided him in concealing illegal activity for years.....and the fans knew nothing of it, but we are hypocrites for it? Wow, that's the kind of logic that runs our recruiting department. That's the kind of toxic, morally bankrupt stuff that the Hawks ended up taking to the extreme.

If JDG is doing anything like that perhaps it's best that we don't go after him. Reminded me of this tweet.

 

[MightySaint]

I might be one of the few non-Collingwood supporters in the country that has them as my second team. Lived around Vic Park for a bit and absolutely loved it.
Either way, i wish the saints had a derogatory nickname like "the filth". I'd embrace that so freaking hard. It's like a badge of honor to build around.

 

[gringo2011]

Each to their own.

I’d rather support a football club that wins - as that is what I’m paying to hopefully watch.

Watching a successful product as opposed to watching them lose because we are against players who would change that situation, Because of trouble off the field - We might as well fold.

We could just do it the normal way and draft our own. It's not have campaigners at the club or fold. I agree that we need to not have a restrictive nice guys policy but that doesn't mean you have to go to extremes either.

 

[stavro#4]

So the club aided him in concealing illegal activity for years.....and the fans knew nothing of it, but we are hypocrites for it? Wow, that's the kind of logic that runs our recruiting department. That's the kind of toxic, morally bankrupt stuff that the Hawks ended up taking to the extreme.

If JDG is doing anything like that perhaps it's best that we don't go after him. Reminded me of this tweet.

There would be stories like this at every club in any sport.

But for us as fans to sit there and turn our noses up at what other players do - is laughable as we have supported our own players who have done worse.

Where you sit on that Gringo is up to you. I’m at the point that I just want to see my club win. I’m too old now to care about these blokes as idols and want their autographs and photos etc.

 

[jwikked]

I might be one of the few non-Collingwood supporters in the country that has them as my second team. Lived around Vic Park for a bit and absolutely loved it.
Either way, i wish the saints had a derogatory nickname like "the filth". I'd embrace that so freaking hard. It's like a badge of honor to build around.

The Aints

 

[stavro#4]

We could just do it the normal way and draft our own. It's not have campaigners at the club or fold. I agree that we need to not have a restrictive nice guys policy but that doesn't mean you have to go to extremes either.

Again - missing the point.

If we drafted gringo and he was a superstar but had a history of JDG issues. You would still support him.

But if the saints were after Gringo the superstar who played at a different club. You would turn your nose up because we didn’t draft him and he had off field issues?

 

[MightySaint]

The Aints

Nowhere near as good. The filth implies an unreserved level of hate. Its fantastic.

 

[Hayes4PM]

People need to get past the idea that all AFL players are prima donas are dont dable. Very few are!

Posters would be surprised with the actions of our and Bulldogs current players at Josh Bruce's wedding. What was even more stupid was they allowed themselves to be videod.

I don't care if once every now and then a nose beer between friends is partaken, Brucey was a fiend of the Colombian marching powder a few years back according to someone I know. There's a middle ground between being a straight edge, church going saint and being Ricky Nixon cooked fiend.

 

[Munga]

Collingwood can make any offer up until next Friday (start of free agency)

They have apparently offered a 5th year in response to our 4 year offer.

THE ISSUE - is that the pies have a behaviour clause that must be met to protect them but to also trigger the remaining 3 seasons of JDGs pies contract.

Our offer apparently doesn’t have this clause and has slightly more money per year.

So if collingwood matched our offer - if JDG accepted it. They would have to honour our terms of years and dollars + no behaviour clause. Which defeats the purpose of offering the clause in the first place - which is clearly the sticking point.

Awesome reply, cheers. It would be interesting if JDG goes to FA and then the Pies match without the clause, I think that's what JDG would want.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Again - missing the point.

If we drafted gringo and he was a superstar but had a history of JDG issues. You would still support him.

But if the saints were after Gringo the superstar who played at a different club. You would turn your nose up because we didn’t draft him and he had off field issues?

If we trade in Gringo I'll microwave my membership

 

[CaptainRisky]

Hooning Perth

Not going to do too much damage , its only 1HP