Preview 2023 Goodbye (To 2024) New; Preseason Discussion

[Coobk001]

Depends on Finlayson's form. His end of season decline was a worry. Continue that and he is playing SANFL next year.

 

[afl2004]

I'm excited to watch gws pre season way more then ports

 

[Nelso]

i agree Marshall and Dixon are first picked. Despite the latter being contrary to popular belief, if he is fit he is getting picked.

We should be playing Lord ahead of Dixon every game.

But of course Dixon will play as Donut's needs to look after his own self interests.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Finlayson in the ruck has genuinely worked about twice. Every coach in the league worked him out long ago

Pretty much. He' borderline useless in the ruck and he doesn't really want to be there anyway.

And I wasn't a big fan of the late season drop off.

He played some really good games early but fell in a heap like a few others when Kenny Average probably had signed behind closed doors.

Still has huge potential as a swing back and forward type of player though.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I don't see how that makes a difference.

Ruck Contest on average are comparable to Gawn/Grundy's. (around 50% give or take)

So i don't see why you couldn't compare him to either of them

Gawn went at 65% ruck contests this year.

 

[jackag24]

Gawn went at 65% ruck contests this year.

Not what that table says

 

[dav3]

We should be playing Lord ahead of Dixon every game.

But of course Dixon will play as Donut's needs to look after his own self interests.

A fit and firing Dixon is still probably our best forward..... just...... if he's 100% and in form he should be picked first however they need to set a very high bar for him, any drop in form or fitness and Lord should come straight in and stay in until Dixon's SANFL form demands selection.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

I don't see how that makes a difference.

Ruck Contest on average are comparable to Gawn/Grundy's. (around 50% give or take)

So i don't see why you couldn't compare him to either of them

Gawn's and Grundy's 2023 were widely recognised as being relatively poor.

Soldo was the main ruck in a Richmond team for most of his 8 total games. His sample size being 8 matches compared to 23 and 17 respectively makes this comparison extremely questionable.

 

[jackag24]

Gawn's and Grundy's 2023 were widely recognised as being relatively poor.

Soldo was the main ruck in a Richmond team for most of his 8 total games. His sample size being 8 matches compared to 23 and 17 respectively makes this comparison extremely questionable.

He was the main ruck in 3/8, hence the 50/93 ruck contests. I'm not sure how you can be a solo ruck and just not attend 40% of the ruck contests in your matches.

I don't see how it's an extreme comparison to compare 3 ruck man who all average about 50 ruck contests per game. It's all about the ratios of stats anyway

Sample size is not perfect but it's what we have to compare

 

[It Just Is]

Dixon is a better and more effective ruck than Finlayson

 

[JimmyBC]

Dixon is a better and more effective ruck than Finlayson

Chuck the Ruck

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

View attachment 1897111

He was the main ruck in 3/8, hence the 50/93 ruck contests. I'm not sure how you can be a solo ruck and just not attend 40% of the ruck contests in your matches.

I don't see how it's an extreme comparison to compare 3 ruck man who all average about 50 ruck contests per game. It's all about the ratios of stats anyway

Sample size is not perfect but it's what we have to compare

He was the primary ruck in 4 of the 8 games going on what you have presented there.

You are comparing someone that played 50% of games as the primary ruck and 50% of games as the secondary ruck.

Grundy and Gawn played 14 games in the same team. They shared the ruck role 82% and 63% of the time respectively.

That they had a similar average of attended ruck contests per game indicates that Richmond were not a heavy stoppage based team.

To say he stacks up decently against premier rucks that were obviously affected by their playing in the same team is reckless.

Here is another comparison:



This is Sam Hayes (23yo) vs Ivan Soldo (27yo).

Is comparison of the first player to Gawn and Grundy relevant?

 

[jackag24]

He was the primary ruck in 4 of the 8 games going on what you have presented there.

You are comparing someone that played 50% of games as the primary ruck and 50% of games as the secondary ruck.

Grundy and Gawn played 14 games in the same team. They shared the ruck role 82% and 63% of the time respectively.

That they had a similar average of attended ruck contests per game indicates that Richmond were not a heavy stoppage based team.

To say he stacks up decently against premier rucks that were obviously affected by their playing in the same team is reckless.

Here is another comparison:

View attachment 1897157

This is Sam Hayes (23yo) vs Ivan Soldo (27yo).

Is comparison of the first player to Gawn and Grundy relevant?

That comparison is significantly less contextualized than the information I've presented, but go ahead. I still don't really understand your point, seems like you're just determined to disagree.

I've just basically said that Soldo stats as mostly 2nd ruck compare decently to a handful of other ruck man, and when extrapolated, he could have a decent season as a number 1 ruck playing 20+ games.

I don't really give a shit about being potentially "reckless" or making "extreme comparisons" by just posting some data

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

The new building at Alberton Oval looks nice

 

[Portmagpies36]

The new building at Alberton Oval looks nice

Surprised they haven’t built a statue of Ken Hinkley down there.

 

[Jojay]

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

That comparison is significantly less contextualized than the information I've presented, but go ahead. I still don't really understand your point, seems like you're just determined to disagree.

I've just basically said that Soldo stats as mostly 2nd ruck compare decently to a handful of other ruck man, and when extrapolated, he could have a decent season as a number 1 ruck playing 20+ games.

I don't really give a s**t about being potentially "reckless" or making "extreme comparisons" by just posting some data

Your initial post was refuting Soldo being a dinosaur (read: ruck that only rucks, doesn't do anything around the ground). You were determined to disagree.

You also compared him to Gawn and Grundy, two of the best rucks of the past decade.

Soldo was not mostly second ruck. He was the primary ruck 50% of the time.

His stats show he doesn't do much around the ground. Despite attending a similar percentage of ruck contests to Gawn and Grundy they outformed him in disposals (read: around the ground work) by over 50%. This is despite Soldo having the highest ruck contest attendance for his team in 50% of his games and Gawn and Grundy spending the majority of the year in an equal ruck role. Soldo's average TOG was also worse than the best of Sam Hayes who was near universally panned on the board for his lack of around the ground work.

Soldo has minimal upside. He is nowhere near Gawn or Grundy despite turning 28 early in the 2024 season.

When Soldo played against Gawn he was beaten in the hitouts 40 to 26. Soldo also had the lowest hitout percentage of the three Richmond rucks over the season (as you so kindly provided).

I was trying to be consolational. I think it was a stupid statement based on poorly interpreted data that you have presented without context.

 

[RossFC]

Hopefully that scoreboard looks good from the Quinn and Williams' stands.

 

[chiwigi]

A fit and firing Dixon is still probably our best forward..... just...... if he's 100% and in form he should be picked first however they need to set a very high bar for him, any drop in form or fitness and Lord should come straight in and stay in until Dixon's SANFL form demands selection.

There’s no such thing as a fit and firing Dixon anymore.
Hasn’t really been for 2 years.
Only ever existed a few times.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Surprised they haven’t built a statue of Ken Hinkley down there.

I'm imagining the one that Blackfriars built but with a donut instead of a broad roll.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Doctor Feel]

lol as if they deserve the "high performance" label

 

[Duck Farmer]

lol as if they deserve the "high performance" label

We don't even deserve the "centre" label as we have a donut for a coach.

 

[JimmyBC]

lol as if they deserve the "high performance" label

highery performance centre

 

[Schulzenfest]

lol as if they deserve the "high performance" label

The "remember 2012? We're performing better than that at least" centre.

 

[Granny Duurs is Lovely]

Your initial post was refuting Soldo being a dinosaur (read: ruck that only rucks, doesn't do anything around the ground). You were determined to disagree.

You also compared him to Gawn and Grundy, two of the best rucks of the past decade.

Soldo was not mostly second ruck. He was the primary ruck 50% of the time.

His stats show he doesn't do much around the ground. Despite attending a similar percentage of ruck contests to Gawn and Grundy they outformed him in disposals (read: around the ground work) by over 50%. This is despite Soldo having the highest ruck contest attendance for his team in 50% of his games and Gawn and Grundy spending the majority of the year in an equal ruck role. Soldo's average TOG was also worse than the best of Sam Hayes who was near universally panned on the board for his lack of around the ground work.

Soldo has minimal upside. He is nowhere near Gawn or Grundy despite turning 28 early in the 2024 season.

When Soldo played against Gawn he was beaten in the hitouts 40 to 26. Soldo also had the lowest hitout percentage of the three Richmond rucks over the season (as you so kindly provided).

I was trying to be consolational. I think it was a stupid statement based on poorly interpreted data that you have presented without context.

Not the person you were responding to, but I did some digging into the stats on rucks for comparison sake. This excludes all games where they weren't the clear number 1 ruck (including basically all games Gawn and Grundy played together) and any games they got subbed out in. 2023 stats only.

Stat (Average)	Gawn	Grundy	Soldo	Lycett	Hayes
Sample (games)	8​	4​	3​	10​	2​
Ruck Contests	69.1​	62.8​	79.3​	65.7​	56.0​
Hitouts	32.5​	31.8​	33.3​	28.2​	26.0​
HTA	10.0​	10.0​	12.0​	8.4​	9.0​
HTA %	30.0​	35.1​	38.1​	31.9​	34.3​
Disposals	20.8​	18.3​	11.0​	12.3​	8.0​
Tackles	2.0​	4.0​	5.7​	4.5​	3.0​
Marks	5.4​	2.8​	3.0​	1.0​	1.0​
Goals	0.4​	0.0​	1.0​	0.0​	0.0​